Really? when did you contacted them? cause i've been contacted them from january but their reply just "we don't know yet, as it's Qatar decision not us"

The best scheme being operated at the moment is the Thomas Cook/Iago Platinum Pilot scheme. There is no upfront TR cost, just 400 quid for the assessment days. IAGO and Thomas Cook pay all the costs for TR, base training/line training for the successful cadets.
The scheme is due to re-open during Spring 2017 - http://www.iagoplatinum.com/

Sorry, I didn't word it right. If you were not to pass to Route 2 standard but passed to Route 3 then obviously EasyJet ATPL would be offered unless you fail altogether and fall back to Whitetail or nothing.
Sure, all three routes lead to the same job, however I'd seriously think long and hard about spending £123,800 on an airline scheme that is nothing more than a glamorized whitetail where you get a job offer a bit earlier (Totally conditional until after ATPL results) and airline specific training . It's an unjustified extra £20k to get the same job!
Strangely someone on whitetail might now actually end up better off than an EasyJet Route 3 if they get the opportunity to join BA, now that BA has ended FPP and replaced it with whitetail hiring!

People will keep paying though, regardless...:rolleyes:

Whilst that kind of makes sense. You are forgetting the fact that the £120k is inclusive of a type rating. Yes you may pay less to be on a standard whitetail but you will still end up paying for a type rating at the end of it (provided you don't get a job with an airline that pays for a type rating).

You sign a conditional offer of employment, just the same as route 1 & 2, on route 3. It is certainly a safer route that a standalone whitetail route.

Hey everyone,

I have been planning on applying to CTC for the white tail route (ATPL) and am looking to have my selection centre in late Aprile/early May. I have also applied to generation easy jet through CTC and have been succesful in getting to stage 2.

Now I have learnt that easyjet split their selection into 2 stages (first day is technical ie numerical and PILAPT i would assume) second day, if successful on first ( would be non-technical ie 1-1 interview and group exercise).

My questions are:

1) Are the technical tests the same as for Virgin's MPL and CTC's whitetail selection process for easyjet?
2) If succesful at the first and second day but not meeting easyjet's criteria (or simply not beating all other candidiates) would you still be eligable for the whitetail route with CTC?
3) What if you are succesful at the first stage (technical) but not second day, would you have to start from scratch and have to go through all stages (technical and non-technical) for the CTC white tail route? If so you'd have to wait 3 more months I would assume?


I had been unsuccesful in the PILAPT during my Virgin MPL selection day in January, had been planning to go through the whitetail process with CTC when I was informed about getting to easyjet's selection day(s) out of the blue (having applied in late 2016)so am trying to get an idea what would be most suited to me. I cannot afford to fail again and am pretty confident (with sufficent preperation) I could pass CTC's selection process in April/May but with easyjet's selection day/process being quite different to Virgin's/CTC's whitetail route I am unsure about how to proceed to one way or another end up on an ATPL course in the near future.


if anyone could help I would REALLY appreciate it.

I have a feeling this comment may have been overlooked. Are you sure they're removing their performance protection. That's a HUGE deal!

YES
Yes and no, depends on your performance, might be eligeable for the whitetail.
The selection process for each programs are tailored differently and aren't linked to each other. In some rare cases, you were able to transfer technical test result so you didn't have to re-sit some of the test, very uncanny I was one of the few who ware allowed to do that, from route 4 AQC to ATP AQC, but don't take it for grounded.

As a said before, no link between those programs, you can fail EZY and Virgin and still be able to apply for the whitetail, do not hesitate to ask CTC

I am certain that is what was briefed on the Open Day. However, having harassed the CTC Career Advisors the best response I could get was yesterday and said; 'The cost of the training programmes and the Performance Protection will be reviewed from July 1st, so we would not be able to provide any information until after that date'.

Obviously, I'm not in a position to attempt to second guess what they are going to do, but I will be delaying my application until after that date.

It's worth remembering that, whilst the performance protection is a good back-up to have, it isn't a bullet proof solution. It's all judged on a case by case basis with no (published) hard or fast rules for when a cadet would or wouldn't get their money back. Especially in the unfortunate case that you pass the course but don't meet the hold pool standard (85% ATPL pass average I think?), I doubt you would get much if any money back and your job prospects would be significantly worse..

That said, performance protection provides a lot of reassurance in CTC's confidence in their own selection criteria. IF it goes (and it's only a PPRUNE rumour atm...) then you'd have to question why IMO - are they seeing more cadets "fail"?, are they planning on taking more 'risks' with who they let start the course?, is the quality of their instruction slipping? - why else would they need to stop it?

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the response mate!

So EZY, Virgin and CTC all use the same technical tests (numerical/PILAPT)? So should I expect any differences (and thus prepare accordingly) for the day 1 selection day for EZY from Virgin's selection day? (or prepare for the same stuff I had for Virgin?)

Once again, thanks!

Hey, could you expand on this please? What are the criteria for entering the hold pool?

If the assesment day is set at Dibden Manor, it will be exactly the same numeracy/PILAPT test, however maths change frequently but no need to worried about, similar questions but different number

This page explains is pretty well, I too was unaware of this until a few months ago.

Week 26: Module 3 Exams & New Zealand - Pilot George, CTC Aviation Cadet Blog

Basically, 85% average will ensure you're eligible for most airlines in the hold pool. Less than 85% and you may be excluded from some airlines. Similar requirements exist for the flying side of training.

I'd stress that I'm just repeating information from other sources, checking with CTC directly is probably the best way to go.

Anyone know if the Qatar selection is the same as the EZY/virgin/whitetail?

Hi all,

How can I work out the BBVA loan repayments? I know how much the course will cost, and it states the interest rate is currently 4.1%. It also states for the first 24 months is a holiday period then the next 24 months is a reduced rate and then the last remaining 6 years pays the full amount. How can I work out the amount required to pay back during years 2-4 and 4-10? Is it done on a percentage of the loan? I.e. Say the total loan is £120000, how can I work out these repayments? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as I have tried contacting the BBVA to ask but got a response stating there are rules which prevent them from replying to me!

Thank you.

BBVA have some example figures here. Not sure why they won't tell you, maybe ask again but for a specific example rather than how they work it out?
https://www.bbvauk.com/personal-bank...ing-mortgages/

It's an interesting maths problem though so here's how (I think :hmm:) you work out!

For the first two years you pay nothing and accrue interest, so at the end of year 2 the loan value is 120,000 * (1.041^2) = 130,041

From then on standard repayments can be calculated using the formula:
Monthly Amount = [Interest * Loan] / [1 - (1+Interest)^-n ]
where n is the number of years to repay

So for 8 years the monthly amount = (0.041*130,041) / (1-1.041^-8) = 19390 / year = 1616 / month

I'm not sure exactly how BBVA calculate the reduced payment value. If they apply a simple 25% discount then repayments in years 3-4 will be 1212.

You caluculate the effect on years 4-10 as follows:

Over years 3-4 you will be repay (1212*12) = 14546 / year
Loan remaining after year 3 (adding on interest) = ((130041*1.041)-14546) = 120827
And after year 4 = 111235

Therefore the repayments for this remaining amount of 6 years (4-10) are:
(0.0451*111,235) / (1-1.041^-6) = 21289 / year = 1774 / month

There are some good tutorials online on how to build this into a spreadsheet. Then you can compare different amounts and see the effect of interest rates easily.

The only problem is that this assumes that interest rates are constant. BBVA probably adjust interest rates depending on any number of factors which is why the above doesn't quite match up with their examples (it's within 50 pound per month though)

ManUtd1999 has almost got it correct, although interest is only calculated during the first 24 months on the amount you have actually taken. My training started in August but I didn't take funds until December. The 2 year payment holiday started at this point and all interest accrued is only on the sum spent and not the overall loan.

The rate is also fixed at 3% per annum atop of the base rate set of the Bank of England, currently 0.25%. Thus, if the Bank of England increases rates as too does your interest and associated monthly repayments.

As a guide, on £70,000 my repayments in year 3-4 equate to ~£580 per month and then ~£780 a month until maturity at year 12.

In my case, I've currently only spent £51,300 and am accruing interest on this amount. Next month when I take another £5,300 out of the pot I will then be accruing interest on the £56,300.

Hope that makes sense.

Thank you gbotley and ManUtd1999 for your informative responses! And for you calculations in working out the interest and overall loan amount. gbotley, how did you get these amounts for your monthly repayments, did BBVA tell you that this is what your repayments will be (and when did they give you these sums) or could you work these out beforehand? How are you finding CTC? Do you know how the employment process works once you complete your training? How likely are you to be employed so you can fund this loan?

@dannybuckley8,

BBVA will have discussions with you based on an amount you wish to borrow after you have completed and passed a CTC selection event. They're quite tight lipped otherwise and don't offer any real advice or support as to the product they're offering as it is as not really a consumer product.. it's more a 'commercial' banking product - they're in Canary Wharf after all - and is thus not covered by consumer protection and advice services.

Note that in addition to the BBVA application and legal fees which total around £2000, I then sought the professional advice of both financial advisors and property lawyers whom went through the contracts and offer from BBVA with a fine-tooth comb. It's hefty and BBVA pretty much prevent ANY alterations to a property throughout your term without them being informed as such. In total, I'd say expect anything from £3000-£4000 in fees alone depending on the property etc as some cadets even had to pay for BBVA's surveyors to attend their property and write up reports.

I originally requested the full £93,800 for Whitetail and BBVA practically ask for your entire life history and that of any guarantors in that they can make a decision on you. It turned out £70,000 was deemed the max I could be offered given the financial outlays of guarantors. I was then provided an offer in the post which outlined everything inclusive of payment amounts.

As for CTC itself, I'm quite happy here to be honest. Be under no illusion, it's a bloody hard graft. Ground School has been known to break people with the stress and I'll be the first to hold up my hands and say I even shed the odd tear here and there as it's a lot to learn in such a short space of time. With that said though, hard work reaps rewards and I've now 14 first time passes with 86% average and currently learning to fly out in New Zealand. You'll find this forum in particular is full of a heck of a lot of negative energy towards larger training organisations and whilst I suppose you do lose that 'personal touch' otherwise provided by a small flight club and spend a significant amount more, I can't fault the training itself.

In respect of employment, the way the market is at the moment so long as you pass everything to a high standard then recruitment is pretty steady. Even BA have returned to recruit cadets by tagging them as they complete Ground School. In essence, on completing training you're placed into a hold pool where a team at CTC Aviation then work to put you forward to suitable airlines for placement / interviews.

Hope that helps,

Mine were around £2500 after VAT - inclusive of our own advisors/solicitors - which is perhaps more typical in truth. I've simply heard them be higher in more complex property situations. It's also worth adding, none of BBVA's fees were due until the loan was actually finalised and I requested money from them the first time.