transcendental - brilliant posts and a must read for those with half a brain + looking into any form of airline training.

Aside from BA's scheme, I'd still say CTC is one of the best out there as it gets you on the A320. That statement, however, reflects how bad the industry now is, rather than how good CTC is!

There will still be many who couldn't give a monkeys, as the irony is that it's never been easier to get into jet airline flying!

Unbelievable.

Hi Guys.

Great posts. Loads of interesting reading. :D

I have been seriously considering CTC as a training provider but the info has kind of put me off a little. Could I just ask if there are any trainees training with CTC who can pitch in? Also, anyone on FlexiCrew who can give advice on woking conditions? I really don't mind hard work but bad conditions are never great!

Cheers all

Whilst not wishing to avoid the previous conversation... anyone signed up to CP97?

PM Me :)

Do you know about any cadets that have been fired during or after the completion of the TR? Or, let's say, before 1 year with EZY. If so, what happened with them? Did CTC look for another airline for them?

And a second question, what happens with the security bond under the Flexicrew contract? Do you get paid repayments (let's say, 1000 pounds a month) + 42 pounds an hour (they are supposed to give you your money back, isn't it?)? What happens then with "your" security bond?

:ok:

Yes there have been cadets " let go " or fired if you will, pre and post line check and a couple up to the end of the first 8 months, prior to being offered a flexi crew contract. I don't know what happened after they left, the arrangement I'm sure was between them and CTC.

As has been previously mentioned forget about the "bond", all it is is the training costs CTC require for the course, if you end up on flex crew you don't see any bond repayment. The hourly rate is all you get, hope that's clear enough for anyone wondering.

CTC Wings CP94 - 27 February 2012
 

Very insightful posts everyone.

On another topic, anyone starting on CP94 - 27 February?

PM me :)

CP95
 

Anyone on CP95 in April that I've not yet met? Join FB group 'CP95' if so!

Hi good morning,

Could someone verify if ctc still hold phase 4 of the assessment process. I've read through the forum and some people a few years ago have had a sim session, whilst others have been told they're successful after 2 & 3.

Also ctc have no information regarding phase 4 on their website and suggest phase 3 is the final Part.

I also understand some people think the assessment at ctc is less rigorous that before and much easier to get into. Have the standards dropped. Why would this be and What do you think of this?

Anymore info would be benificial to myself and anyone else thinking of the cadet programme.

Hi FlyingEagle21

If you are applying for the CTC Wings Cadet Programme, then there are only 3 phases. As far as I know CTC only holds a phase 4 for pilots applying on the APL programme - they already hold a licence.

Regards

Hello all,

I was just wondering could anyone tell me how difficult it is to get into the CTC wings programme?

I was just reading on pilotjobsnetwork.com that the overall success rate for a potential candidate is 1.5-2 %. Is this true?

Yes, it is true.

It used to be true.....ish. But a long time ago. Wouldn't worry about pointless stats, if you perform ok you'll get in.

There is no longer a surplus of people able (and wanting) to fund the training. It used to be the case that unsecured loans were available and employment prospects (with training bond being returned and a proper contract) were very good and hence competition very high. Nowadays neither of those points are true and thus there are less people walking through the door hoping to be 'selected' by CTC. Logically it follows that the standard required to get in has plummeted as CTC want to continue pumping out students to easyJet on their flexicrew contract in order to make money off of them.

Thanks for all the replies.

Much appreciated!

I don't know whether the 1,5% pass rate is still true or not, but I can assure you that it is still very difficult to be accepted. I had my selection day one month ago, and I saw brilliant people (engineers, people with PPLs, people with other degrees and a lot of experience...) going back home with a "thank you but you don't meet our standards".

This is, at least, for the Cadet Scheme. Of course some of them will be offered the ICP route, although that's a different thing :ok:

"This is, at least, for the Cadet Scheme. Of course some of them will be offered the ICP route, although that's a different thing http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif"

ICP had just begun when I finished the course about 3 years ago.
I was never able to differentiate between the cadets and icp and the question was asked but never answered because there is no differentiation. We had guys on our course who were icp and they went through every stage in exactly the same way and ended up with easyJet. There is NO selection now, one way or another you will be offered a place. If you have the money you will get in.

Sad but true.

As to the percentage of people that are selected I had my phase 2/3 combined assesment day a few months back.

The assessor said that large numbers of people send in the application form online but only around 20% of those that pass this first stage bother to then go on and pay the £190 and book an assessment day.

This is probably a large factor in the 2% pass rate figure people are suggesting, and its more likely that 2% (or more) of total online applicants go on to receive an offer for the "Wings" cadet course.

Hi can any previous wings cadets answer a few questions.
I believe that cadets and self sponsored iCP students study together on the same course. eg CP90 Is mixed.
What is the ratio between cadets and iCP? And how many cadets are there usually on a course?

Also anyone have any idea wether ctc will get any new contracts or renew with ej? Are they putting through more cadets that jobs at the end.

What's he out look for 2+ years?
Any more info would be beneficial.

Thanks

Hello folks,

I've been reading around and I seem to be getting a general impression that most Wings cadets go into EJ. Would this be correct?

To further the previous question, am I correct in saying it is a three year contract with EJ, paid by the hour and then you are let go at the end?

No, you can be let go at any time, it is a zero hours contract, although as long as you mantain the standard you will get some hours.
However......
As many people have found ej have over recruited massive amounts of FO's over the last two years (something we were told they would not do) so the flexicrew guys who were getting 900 hours a year are now finding that these hours are dropping off considerably. Over the winter plenty of people were flying 10-20 hours a month. That works out to about £1000 gross with a standby thrown in. That's tough to live on. Yes, but you fly loads in the summer I hear you say, great, a possible 100 hours in the summer months works out at circa 4.5k gross a month for about 4 months. Enough to break even from the incremental debt you got into over the winter and then it's back into the lean winter season.
Basically throw in another 5k loan at least for additional living expenses in the first year of flying and forget about paying back any of the loan which will be rapidly growing through accumulated interest.
Although with expansion rapidly slowing down at ej I would have thought that the odds of getting into a job are increasingly slim.
I would wait to see what kind of deal the MPL guys get when they get on the line.
Seeing as how they can only work for ej I can't see them being on anything like the hourly rate currently 'enjoyed' by flexicrew pilots.

The risk/reward ratio skyrocketed towards risk over the last 2 years. Anyone who signs up for a course of flying training now without a very clear exit strategy if all goes belly up and who simply hopes that they will get a job is, in my humble opinion, crazy.

Accommodation
 

Hi, I'm due to start my course in October and was wondering if anyone could shed any light on the CTC accommodation in Southampton. They are very happy to show Clearways looking wonderful in NZ on the website but don't really mention what 'shared accommodation' will actually look like. Can anyone clarify for me or even post a pic?

The shared accommodation is comprised of houses rented on the commercial market. The ones I have seen are typical four and five bedroom modern homes on estates in nearby towns. You will need your own transport to commute a few miles into Nursling. Often people will share lifts with someone who has their own transport.

Great, thanks.

Razor27, thanks for the info. I agree with you, it would be hard to get a Job and I also think it would be difficult to financially survive even if you did!

Would anyone know if EJ still offer permanent contracts when you get enough experience? Whether it is for a base abroad or in the UK doesn't really matter to me.

Myles,

Yes, people are constantly heading off to Milan and Paris at the moment, not so much the other European bases. However, this is because so many new captains are coming from these bases and heading to LGW. Again, the number of command courses will rapidly slow down in the next couple of years which will slow down the recruitment and therefore movement to European bases.
If you are lucky enough to get into easy after finishing your training then plan on being on flexicrew for at least 2 years on much lower terms than currently exist. I'm pretty sure by then the management will have come up with ingenious ways of lowering terms in the European bases too so moving to them on a permanent contract will become less attractive.
My last point is that since starting flying training the terms and conditions have dropped at a jaw dropping rate. I am constantly amazed at how low the conditions have become.
Believe me, it becomes very tiresome losing 15% of your monthly pay when a nice long 4 sector day gets replaced with an AMS. It is impossible to plan because your monthly pay will vary so much even after your roster is published because of all the changes.

Sounds negative? Yep, this is the reality....

Anyone else currently on CP100 ?

lol, oh well......

razor27
 

Thanks for the info! Is any of the roster fixed for instance the the first week? At what point are you offered a perm contract on the continent i.e is it straight after line training? Also what are the hoops to jump through to get one?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to research as much as I can

Cheers!

At what point? There is no point. You have to APPLY - go through a whole NEW interview process and group exercises even if you have flown for eJ for 3 or more years. These aren't hoops either. People fail at this stage and remain a flexicrew pilot. None of the roster is fixed.

Please also be aware that the future is not permanent contracts at easyJet. eJ don't want it, CTC/OAA don't want it because they get a cut from your flexicrew salary. eJ is becoming Ryanair - expect to pay for everything and get nothing. Expect in 3 years to have contract Captains, no permanent FO's and further degradations to working conditions.

Thanks for your response HP, seems like I completely misunderstood how the system works.

average punter

HPBleed is spot on.
There really is no future for permanent positions at easyJet.
The callousness of the communications we get from management are truly amazing.
It is very clear to anyone with an ounce of foresight that the future at easy is contract Captains. Frankly the only thing holding the t's & c's of pilots in Europe together are the European unions. Balpa have openly admitted that they are not interested in pursuing the rights of flexicrew pilots so the rot has set and will only get worse.

Yes, I am on a permanent contract but went through 18 months of flexiscrew.
When the latest pay deal came out Balpa had negotiated a pay freeze for flexiscrew for another 2 years. For some reason it is acceptable for us to accept a pay drop over the next 2 years. What kind of union negotiates that?

Having been in the industry for a few years I now realise that self interest rules, don't expect anyone to watch your back and certainly don't expect the 'friendly' management to do anything except try and screw you.
The communication all FO's have received in the last 48 hours about swaps is testament to that.

All of this aside average punter, try and see the wood for the trees. Contracts and bases etc are all fine detail when compared with:

1. Can you finance the training?
2. Can you take the risk?
3. Will you pass all the training?
4. Will you be a good boy or girl and keep your head down so CTC don't get angry with you? I.e. accept everything they say to you with no reply from your side other than 'yes sir, no sir - I'm not a customer, I'm a very lucky boy or girl sir'. In other words you do not have a right to dissatisfaction - some people can't cope with that. This may be the same at all FTOs - I only trained at CTC so I don't know.
5. Why do you really want this?
6. If you don't train what will be the effect on you? Could you accept it?

Don't try and predict the future - the industry, what's on offer and your flexibility WILL change for the better or worse when out the other side of training. Though you may think you're being sensible asking what you're asking you are in fact being irrelevant.

It's all just my opinion, not advice - don't look for advice on here unless it is targeted, specifically through PM from people with a proven track record in posting.

Indeed they did spicejetter.

Don't expect a permanent contract in the UK anytime soon.

Vive la France.

The funny thing is by their very actions flexicrew are accepting and allowing it to happen. Those who put a priority on money and security have taken a Permanant mainland contract at the first instance or gone to other airlines on a Permanant contract. Those who have made it their highest priority to be in the uk are financially far worse off, a month away from no job, still being subsidised by someone and are perpetually complaining. A few are unecessarily bankrupt. Make your choice and live with it. As a caveat - I know there are one or two who need to be in the uk, at home for genuine personal reasons ( ill relatives and new offspring) and I sympathise with their situation.

Just got back from the CTC Open Day... Got some time on the 737 Sim and allowed my parents a better insight into the CTC Wings Cadet program.

There's a lot of negative talk here about how Pilots are forced to slave away for long hours on the flexicrew program. Today I was informed that the holding pool is empty and every pilot has been given a full job with the airlines, direct entry I think.

Anyone else there today?