Thomsonfly FTE Scheme
 

For those who are interested, Thomsonfly are advertising a "Pilot Approved Training Scheme" in this weeks Flight. Applications through Flight Training Europe website only. As per usual, those with only 35 years of their working lives remaining need not apply.

Anyone know the cost of this course? No mention of fees on the linked page.

Woody

It does mention that students will be dealing directly with FTE, one presumes therefore that it will be at their standard rates.

The cynic in me wonders what exactly Thompsonfly's involvement is in this scheme, beyond keeping an eye on potential future employees. The real cynic in me wonders who actually placed the advert, Thompson or FTE.

Oh well back to pressure systems and air mass Wx

Course costs EUR92,000 or GBP62,000.

It's a win \ win situation for Thomsonfly. No risk\cost and they get their cream of the crop.

Anyone know when we are meant to be hearing back after submitting our phase 2 responses?


Blah Blah

Visited www.flighttrainingeurope.com and can't find a link to the application form for their scheme, only their integrated course...

Anyone have a direct link?

Thanks

Here you go mate:

http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/application.html

I sent my phase two questions off last thursday and haven't heard anything. I think that if successful you'll know whether your invited to assesment day by end of May. Hope this helps and good luck.

Taiguin

Thanks very much for that... don't have a clue how i can't find it!!!!

Best of luck

I believe they will have concluded the testing and interview process by May because the course is a July start so its all going to happen pretty quickly. I am in the middle of doing my stage 2 questions at the moment - anyone got any tips?!!

The cost is actually 98,000 Euros as its the 62 week course with the JOC/MCC plonked on the end.

Hopefully see some of you down there!

Has anyone information regarding those "funding arrangements" mentioned by FTE?

They've already run this scheme. Read all about it:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=152405

I'm about to put my second stage bits and pieces through. A bit sceptical though. No risk sharing, and nothing more than a look your way on completion. Hmmm:suspect:


Any info from someone already on the course would be moretan helpful, of course.

Mate,

If information is what you want then go to the following link:

http://www.henrybevan.co.uk

This guy is one of the sponsored pilots chosen by Britannia last year. He keeps an online diary of what its like at Jerez. Funny reading and some nice pictures too.

Enjoy,

Taiguin.

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, who exactly placed the advert, FTE or Thomsonfly? And who is running this 'scheme'?

Am I right in assuming this is nothing more than a standard self-funded fATPL course dressed up to look more glamorous than it really is? With no real interaction from the airline at all?

Who exactly is running the selection stages? Is it FTE (meaning expensive trips to Jerez in the early summer) or Thomsonfly?

Not meaning to sound too sceptical here, but it seems like an attempt to fill some places in Jerez.

I kinda agree with Hmmm (?!?!) I do have doubts.

Thanks Taiguin for that guy's webpage.

The question still remains though. Are Thomson actually going to employ anyone? Will these people be left to find their own jobs (and pay off the bond) if Thomson opt out. It does seem that the student is taking all the risk, and the training org getting all the benefits, with Thomson having an easy recruitment process, if they even decide to recruit, when the course ends.

The add was dressed up to look like the Thomsonfly colours but I can't remember who's overseeing the recruitment.

Guys,

To put everybodies mind at rest here is my view on the whole scheme.

Thomsonfly, aka Britannia using a different trade name, are putting potential candidates through a selection process. The assessment stage which people will be invited too if successful on the question stage will occur in England and i assume before the end of May. (This is in the email when the questions are sent to you.)

Those selected at the end of this will then contract with Flight Training Europe for their normal integrated course. This is 92000 Euro's i think. The same way you would if you were self sponsored. Throughout the course however Thomsonfly will monitor the progress of these candidates and if at the end of the course they have reached the required standard and there are jobs within Thomsonfly they will be awarded jobs without going through the normal Britannia recruitment process and simulator check. There is no guarentee but a good chance of employment.

The way i see it is as follows. If i am not successfull at CTC then i will pay for it myself through and integrated course at a flight training organisation. Doing this means i'll be in debt or the order 70000+ and potential without a job. This scheme appeals to people like me purely because it reduces the risk of not getting employed. It is not a guarenteed job but if there are jobs available which you would expect given thomsonfly's expansion then you'll get one. This makes the decision to pay for the training that much easier. I think your suspicion of Jerez using it as a way to get student in is outrageous. Purely because if this was the case not only would they be disgracing themselves but Britannia/Thomsonfly would be disgraced too. Britannia also did some full and some self sponsorship last year so its not a new thing.

Thats my rather lengthy opinion on the situation. If you don't like the sound of it then don't apply easy as that. Hope this helps guys,

Taiguin :ok:

Taiguin,

Thanks for that information.

However, the suspisions are by no means 'outrageous' as you say. They are totally reasonable. The FTE website really has very little on the selection procedure, funding arrangements for succesful applicants, structure of course, involvement of airline etc. The application form asks if you have A-levels in 'Phisics' and 'Chemistrys', which, in my opinion, are very poor spelling mistakes for such companies to have on an application form. All of these things made me wonder what sort of scheme this was, thats all. The spelling mistakes suggest that this is pioneered by FTE and not Thomsonfly. It just doesn't quite have the feel that other schemes, including the previous FTE/Thomsonfly scheme, have.

Good luck to all those that apply!

Hey Mate,

Outrageous seemed a little harsh a word to describe your claims -i agree. I take on board what your saying but i still think its a little far fetched to think the FTE are behind the supposed scheme. It would cripple the school if somebody found that out....so is it worth it for them. 700,000 say vs No reputation!?

The spelling mistakes are quite funny and i hope it doesn't reflect on the company more the fact they were in a rush to do it. I hope they let any of my spelling mistakes go in my application. I guess it will be clearer when people start having interviews etc as to who is behind the scheme for real. I'm pretty certain it will be Britannia tho!

Good luck if you apply.

Taiguin.

Just a quick not to add after looking at the spelling mistakes. It was probably wrote by FTE on behalf of Thomsonfly anyhow. Maybe the spanish persons english wasn't too good. A point to consider.

Taiguin,

I guess you're right. They couldn't really afford in the long run to take people for a ride.

The reason I was wanting to hear info was to get an idea of the situation. I'm not going to go committing £60,000+ without investigating first, and no-one else should either.

Hope all goes well for all.

Why was it advertised under Courses and Tuition in Flight rather than Jobs? I would expect a school to advertise under Courses and Tuition and an airline to advertise under Jobs.

my experience DONT give up
 

well all!!!

how are things?? here is my spin on the whole situation and my experience with FTE to date

ok so in november of last year I applied to the thomsonfly.com cadetship run by FTE and was sent a generic e-mail saying that i was unseuccessful this time round (no suprise there)

ok so say the ad in flight international 3-9th may applied for it again on the 5th of may and on the 6th of may got an e-mail back from FTE saying the same as last year exact same e-mail!!! they never said why I diddnt get through just that there was a lot of applications!!! now i was p***ed over this as it said closin date was 15th of may so i felt they should wait till then to make decission (i also went on to their website on sunday 8th of may [fte's site] and found that they had removed the link for applying even though they said closing date was not till 15th of may) so I e-mailed them back on sunday 8th and explained all above to them and asked why i wasnt accepted (it ended up been a bit of a b****y e-mail). ok so they e-mailed me back on tuesday 10th and said it was because I hadnt the right academic grades (3 alevels) thats fair enough except im from ireland so we dont have a levels we have the leaving cert which is equilivent so again went on their website on tuesday and descovered they had the link back up so i applied again this time saying that i had 7 a levels which is how many exams i did for leaving cert i then replied to 'nicola' in FTE explained that i applied again and this time told her the story about my exams im also a qualified aircraft maintenance technican and have done some aeronautical exams so i told here that too!! anyway yesterday got reply saying i was through to phase 2 now just have to fill out these 7 questions by tomorrow!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO BOYS IF YOU DONT SUCEDE DONT GIVE UP THEY WANT TO SEE THAT YOUR WILLING TO FIGHT THEM FOR THE CHANCE OF THE JOB

sorry this was a bit long but thought it was valuable to write!!!

best of luck lads with it and hope i might see you at selection in the UK soon!!!

Don't despair Travnet (Are you only a Travnetsite on weekends?? :D )

Funnily I also have leaving cert, but since living in the uk I've learnt not to differentiate. They never even think that there is anything but A levels, so I just tell them that I have A levels. (I'm privately convinced that leaving cert is not the equivilent, but of a much higher standard:suspect: ;))

If they get picky I explain. If they're happy, then I don't. It hasn't been a problem so far.

In your answers, just be honest, tell them what you can and don't worry.

Just remember that you're not fighting for a job, you're fighting for them to let you pay them money to train you, and to be considered for a job. Massive difference.

Slán agus sláinte.

Went to check the FTE website again, seems that the link has now changed to a BA CitiExpress scheme......exactly the same form, but with BA substituted for Britannia.....

FTE has recently secured a Self-sponsored scheme along similar lines to the Thomsonfly gig.....As a student here, i can say it is really beginning to happen for the college at the moment. Think there may be even more companies starting this type of scheme at FTE in the near future too.

I believe the Thomsonfly course will start in June and 2 BACX courses, one in August and one in Oct. Fill your boots guys, now is the time to get involved.

The point is that it is not a Thompsonfly or BACX course, is it. These are FTE courses, paid for by the students, not the airlines. At the end of the day are graduates from these courses any more likely to get a job with the partner airlines than any other Jerez graduate? If the answer to this question is no, then what exactly do the advertised courses offer over any other Jerez course? The present ad in Flight offers "finance toward a JOC / MCC" or some such, but such offers have been made to any student who signs up for the integrated CPL/IR at Jerez. To me it (sadly) sounds like an effort at attracting students.

I thought at least on the Thomsonfly scheme Thomsonfly are involved in the selection of the student. Therefore students accepted on this scheme will have already passed Thomsonfly selection and as long as they do well on the course and Thomsonfly have vacancies when they finish they will be first in the queue.

I said it before (and got shot down in flames!) but the Thomsonfly scheme is not really any different from CTC and yet everybody accepts CTC as a valid route these days. In both CTC and Thomsonfly the student has to provide ALL the funding (help is provided for sourcing) but, even at CTC, if times go bad and there in no job at the end (no guarantees!) the student still has to pay off the loan.

Tallbloke, I am afraid you haven't a clue what you are talking about. All the self sponsored scemes that take place here under the auspices of related airlines are fully endorsed by those airlines who have a genuine undertaking to employ their selected candidates after training.

Of course there are no guarantees as with anything for a low hours wannabe at the moment so yes there is significant risk involved. Fact is that the bean counters are not authorising any risk at all at the moment for renewed full sponsorship schemes and are unlikely to for a long time yet. For someone that is not approved at FTE believe me something would be better than nothing and these schemes are definitely worth a shot. Like it or not this is the type of scheme that is emerging as the prefered route post 9/11 and I believe is here to stay.

As regards to CTC the whole product offered here is entirely different and much better value for money as the course is integrated and you get all the groudschool taught and not learned off a computer 14,000 miles away in NZ. PLus when you eventually start with an airline you will be paid a decent wage instead of being paid the shocking payscales akin to those set up for CTC grads with Easyjet for 7 years!!

Well wubalaj,

If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?

These are professionals, and if it is as you say, then there is no point in putting our own (god forbid) money up front.

Have these people ever heard of risk sharing. I'm sure your parents told you when you were very young that sharing is nice. Well, it's true. Otherwise I feel like I'm being taken for a ride.

Thing is Schweinhund I totally agree with you.......Wait around and see what happens but you will be waiting a bloody long time and probably be far too old to do it when the airlines do have sponsorships again. I am not the kind of person who wants to get to middle age wishing I had grown some balls when I was younger and gone into the profession I always wanted to do.

Remember also that in the past the BA sponsorship had up to 55,000 applicants each year for 100 places........May be you actually stand more chance of making it in the present climate?!?

That's a fair point.

However, I think I'll just save up a bit, do PPL. Save up a bit, do ME. Save up a bit, do IR. Save up a bit...etc.

Not that I'm saying it's the best for everyone out there. It's just the answer I've come to after thinking about it for a long time.

It works out cheaper in the end, with no debt hung about thy neck. It's at your own pace. And if you decide not to go professional, it's a damn fine hobby.

Cheers All

Schwein-Hund

Anyone had a response to the 2nd Phase questions?

Matt

Wubalaj

Any chance you are just a tad biased? You compare CTC and FTE. They are completely different. Compare how many students from each are now working on a jet - CTC have a far superior employment rate. Also you don't hand over cash with CTC - FTE you do.
The Thomsonfly scheme really doesn't mean much. They don't have to take you, much the same as any low hour guys they do take don't have to come from there. Indeed they have taken on modular guys recently.
Also do you think that a brand new cadet at Thomson will earn more than a CTC wings graduate? If you do then think again. Perhaps you were knocked back from CTC?

Not often I defend them, but your post was garbage.

Clarification required
 

Wubalaj wrote:

Do the guys going on the Thomsonfly/BACX endorsed schemes have a written contract to this effect? Or is it a 'genuine undertaking' based on goodwill?

(A simple yes/no answer to the former question from someone with direct experience will suffice. No hearsay required.)

Many thanks.

Empennage, thanks for that. Good to get a bit more information about it.

That said, the question I asked still stands. Is there any kind of legally-binding contract?

For example;

• are the company contractually obliged to offer you employment at the end of the course (subject to passing the appropriate checks)?
• are you contractually obliged to join Thomson at the end of the course should they offer such employment, or are you free to keep your own options open and go elsewhere if you wish?

Simple answers will be much appreciated. By the way, I'm not trying to knock it, any extra foothold in this industry (such as the liaison officer and access staff website) is A Good Thing. Especially if you're effectively getting it all for free, if it's the same price as a non-endorsed self-sponsored FTE course.

I'm merely interested (as, I suspect, are some others) in what each parties binding obligations actually are.

Thanks again.

Charley :)

As has been said in previous posts, the Thomsonfly/BACX schemes do not guarantee jobs. However, if you were going to bite the bullet and go and do a course would you not rather do it under the umbrella of an airline. I am not on the Thomsonfly scheme myself, I'm here with different attachments - however had I not been succesful in my initial endeavour then I would have applied as I was always going to do the course, just a question of how.

I realised a long time ago that I was going to have to finance the cost of my training. Even in the so called golden era when BA were fully sponsoring, you went in on a fairly well reduced cadet salary and had to pay back around £15000 over 5 years. Either way, you made a fairly substantial contribution to the cost of your training, it's just being done a little differently now.

As has been said in the post by empennage, Thomsonfly do take an interest in the training of the cadets on their scheme and they will be the first to get jobs upon graduation, assuming the airline requires flight crew at that time. There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will...

Rubbish. CTC is the closest thing to airline sponsorship - and a much better scheme than this.
And people joining Thomson under this umbrella will not be on the same Thomsonfly F/O salary that a Direct entry experienced F/O would be on.

Silverknapper, you come across as very arrogant and know it all. Many fair comments have been put on here by individuals in order to give opinions to which they are entitled. You are, of course, also entitled to yours but I feel your rudeness is totally unnecessary. I only hope that Thomsonfly need more pilots when they've finished recruiting the guys/girls off their scheme if you want to fly for them......

fastjet2k said:

"There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will..."

Well, I have no problem paying for myself, and I probably will. I just feel that it's my money, so I'll do the whole thing on my terms. I'm certainly not going to hand over A LOT of money and have next to no say. Again, this is my opinion, and you're right, there a plenty of others who are willing to go on to a scheme like this. And I genuienly hope they do very well at it. Just not my cup of tea.

A valid question has been left unanswered: If after satisfactory completion Thomsonfly offer a nice little job, can you refuse and go elsewhere?

PIGDOG,

You ask ‘If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?’

My question to you is: are you being serious when you ask this question?

Why should the students take the risk and not the airline? It’s very simple – because there are hundreds if not thousands of guys and a fair amount of girls willing to spend thousands with the hope of an airline job.

I have to agree with wubalaj, fastjet2k et al, a course affiliated with an airline is not to be knocked even if a job at the end isn’t set in stone. I would much rather take my seventy grand chance with an approved scheme than be just be another guy. There will always be people that poo poo these schemes for the sake of poo pooing something. Sad bast_rds.

Good Luck to those having a pop at the Thompsonfly scheme.

9mm

hey just sent in my answers for the 2nd phase ythere on sunday and just waiting for reply now!! anyone else send in their's??

9mm

My point about the bean counters was that they are people in the know. If they're not going to spend ANY money (part sponsorship, etc) then isn't it a big, flashing, warning, neon light that there isn't going to be a good enough return on their investment, or the risk is too great.

I'm certainly not poo-pooing paying for training, nor anyone who decides to take that route. My point is that shouldn't the airline at least commit to something more than just "if we want you at the time then we'll see"!!

That's all my point was. I certainly wasn't looking for some topic to 'poo-poo'. This is a genuine concern of mine, since I'm interested in finding out about the details. I certainly don't appreciate being called a sad b*****d for asking questions and I think it was out of order.

I'll say again, just to emphasise, that I really do hope that all who get on this do very well out of it. The cons outway the pros FOR ME. But you guys have a good crack at it.

Another (genuine) question:
Do Thomson pay you back the bond over a period of time after employment? Easyjet do it I think, but I'm not sure.

Thanks