The CTC Wings Scheme thread
 

This thread will, from today, 15/09/2004, be used to discuss the CTC Wings Scheme, the new name for what used to be called the CTC-McAlpine Cadetship Programme. I'll start it with the post I already put up on the "old" thread earlier today.

NOTE: In effect, the thread entitled "CTC-McAlpine/Easyjet/JMC etc" should be used for reference only and further posts on the Wings scheme should be made here.

Regards,

Simon.



Well, where to start.

Firstly, I'm very, very, ecstatically happy to report that I got through to Stage 3. :}

I won't go into too many details about the assessment day as most of the format has been described in previous posts. So, any newbees can do exactly what I did and read the whole thing! :cool:

However, there are a few VERY important points to note, points that were only finalised a few days before my Phase 2 assessment day on Tuesday, September 14th, 2004.

1. The scheme is now known as "The CTC Wings Scheme". McAlpine Aviation has been 100% bought out by CTC, so no longer have anything to do with it. I'm going to suggest to the moderators that we start a new thread as this one is quite dated in most parts and for any newbees, I think it'd be helpful for them and indeed everyone else, if we had up to date info and advice.

2. The initial training period has been revamped. After Stage 4, when the candidate is selected for training, each individual is analysed and their level of flying experience is assessed. PPL v No PPL for example.
CTC have decided, (sensibly) that those with flying experience would be wasting their time and CTC's time with training on aspects already covered in their PPL's and therefore neither party should incur the cost (investment for CTC/bond for the candidate) of doing the same thing over again.
So, CTC have announced that candidates with TEN HOURS OR LESS flying experience, go through a "Foundation" course. This entails training up to NZ PPL level for approx 12 weeks. THE COST OF THIS IS SEPERATE FROM THE BOND AND MUST BE PAID BY THE CANDIDATE AT A COST OF APPROX £3,000.

Now, personally, I'm gonna get extremely annoyed if people start arguing about this and saynig "CTC are ripping us off blah-dee-blah-dee-blah". This is the way it is and you can't do anything about it so go sit in the corner and keep quiet. :E

3. The CTC-ATP scheme has merged with the CTC Wings Scheme in a number of ways.
Firstly, the age limit for entrants to the Wings scheme has increased to "30 years of age on the date of application". This is in line with the ATP scheme.
Also, the number of airlines CTC deal with in both aspects is increasing. easyJet and Thomas Cook are still there, as well as Britannia, Monarch and a few others I can't remember at this time. Two further "major carriers" are to be announced in the very near future.

4. Applications for the Wings Scheme should now be made at the following address - www.ctcaviation.com/wings and NOT www.ctc-mcalpine.com. It's nice to see this change because at the Stage 2 Assessment day yesterday, they were unaware applications were still done through the old site. There is a press release dated 14/09/2004 with the updated info announcement.

There are other little changes in regards to expenses in New Zealand etc but what I have above will suffice for the time being. I hope many of you find it useful.

The source for all the above information was Mr. Lee Woodward in his presentation at the start of the Stage 2 assessment day. He joined CTC this year and is the Chief Training Pilot on the 757. He's taking CPxx to Brunei next week to start their training!

I just got in touch with Scroggs, the forum moderator, to see if we should start a new "CTC Wings Scheme" thread but until I hear back from him, we'll make do with this.

Regards,

Simon.

Out of the ashes of the CTC McAlpine thread comes the CTC Wings thread. God bless all who browse on her...!

V1R :ok:

Nicely put V1R! :cool:

Here are some links to sites which may help those only just beginning the application process.

www.pprune.org - The Bible of the aviation industry. i.e. not exactly 100% accurate all of the time, but the stories are good and it really does make you think. :}

www.ctcaviation.com/wings - This is where you take that all important first step.

www.morrisby.com - sample aptitude tests.

www.pilapt.com - the tests used by CTC in Stage 2. You can't actually take them (that would be cheating you see) but you can view screenshots of the 7 different tests just so you have some idea of what to expeect.

I'm sure we'll see more and more links added as the thread grows.

Regards,

Simon.

Those sample tests on morrisby were actully quite fun :), I almost fancy 3 hours of them. I think i am going modular btw, as its soo much cheaper. I just intend to do all my modules back to back. So basically it is an intergraded but not the cost :)

This thread is nice and clear - no need to start another thread about the CTC Wings scheme.

Thanks for making the effort to develop a useful thread.

Cheers

WWW

"So, CTC have announced that candidates with TEN HOURS OR LESS flying experience, go through a "Foundation" course. This entails training up to NZ PPL level for approx 12 weeks. THE COST OF THIS IS SEPERATE FROM THE BOND AND MUST BE PAID BY THE CANDIDATE AT A COST OF APPROX £3,000."

So, does this mean that is is no longer an "ab-initio" programme?

The 10 hour thing is that you if you have no previous experience then you do the entire foundation course. If you have more than 10 hours then you do the test flights at Bournemouth to see how much of the foundation course you need to do. The 3 grand will probably be able to be added to your Bank loan if you don't have it spare.

Increased Upper Age Limit
 

Certainly for me this is excellent news. I am just shy of 30 years old and am / was about to start on a self funded Modular route. I think an application may be worthwhile now!

Thanks to Simon for collating and sharing all the info above.

esvdx

Re: The Foundation Course
 

EGP explains this very well.

At the moment, the course is still ab-initio. The foundation course was set up to allow those with little or no flying experience gain their PPL with CTC, but at a cost of approx £3,000. I would agree that the bond could be extended from £60,000 to £63,000 to cover this if required.

However, Lee said at Stage 2 that it would be assumed people could afford to do this without increasing the bond. i.e. if you're told you're going to NZ, it could be 6 months before you're actually able to go with jobs/uni personal commitments etc. In this time, you could also save £3,000, pay for the Foundation course with no interest and have it over and done with.
I'm only just passed Stage 2 but just in case, I've started to save specifically for this. Anyways, if CTC doesn't work out, it will be used for lessons elsewhere :cool:

This begs the question, IS IT BETTER TO APPLY TO THE WINGS SCHEME WITH A PPL?

Not really. It honestly doesn't matter, but if you don't have one (I don't, some people at my Stage 2 did) CTC's PPL course is taught in such a way as it makes you think like an airline pilot from day one. This can only be a good thing.

Regards,

Simon.

Hey,

Good news about the changes to the scheme lets hope that the possibilities of further airlines joining in the near future continues to grow!

Anyway, down to business........

Recently had confirmation that I have been selected to attend stage two of the assessment process. I have elected to go down to Bournemouth on the 28th and was wondering if anyone else had also chosen this date!

Would be interested to here from any of you so don't hesitate to get in touch.

P.S. Sorry - I know this is the second time this has been posted - deleted the earlier post by mistake. :ooh:

Clarification
 

Someone suggested on the 'old' thread that the foundation course is £3,300, which would be a bit pricy. :(

However, the way I read the website is that £3,300 gets a full PPL plus travel and accommodation and so on with a refund at the end of any hours not required, which would be a bargain. :D

Anyone got a definitive answer?

Foundation Course
 

Sally, you were right about the Foundation course. It was me who incorrectly said it was £3,000...this is the full paragraph from the CTC Wings site...


FOUNDATION COURSE

The initial phase of training takes you to PPL (Private Pilot Licence standard) and is conducted at our training centre in New Zealand. Because some applicants have already obtained their PPL, this part of the course is self-funded but at a significantly subsidised rate (the cost is NZ$9000 - currently about £3300). If you are successful during selection, and have previously completed more than 10 hrs flying, we will carry out a training assessment flight at our Bournemouth Flight Training Centre in the UK so that we can determine approximately how much training you will need to reach our standard for this PPL phase - and thus the time required in New Zealand to complete this. All candidates will be required to pay the full Foundation course price, but will receive a rebate in respect of unused hours of flying once they have reached the required PPL standard. (see the FAQs for more information). This, we hope, gives a fair recognition to those applicants that have already reached a certain standard of flying before applying to us._


Regards,

Simon.

Bump - Post all CTC Wings related things here remember ;)

But the old thread is so much more interesting at the moment!!:rolleyes:

*bump*

Hey guys,
Am about to apply for the wings scheme, can any of you that have gone through stage 2 please tell me what sort of maths is in the numerical test? A couple of examples would be great, I just wanna know what to touch up on! Thanks.

Hi,
I went through stage 2 in february. Back then it was mostly arithmetic, ie. long division, long multiplication, stuff like that, just checking that you can work things out in your head really!no examples though
good luck:D

Hi,
I went through stage 2 in february. Back then it was mostly arithmetic, ie. long division, long multiplication, stuff like that, just checking that you can work things out in your head really!no examples though
good luck:D

Stage 2
 

Blinkz,

Did stage 2 at the beginning of September, the arithmetic test was fairly straight forward, 15 questions and I think we got about 15 minutes, one example I remember goes roughly,

You are descending from FL180 to FL100 at a rate of 2500 fpm, how long will this take you? The answers were multiple choice.

The arithmetic test itself wasn't the most taxing part of the day, the Pilapt tests were fun but complicated, you can see why they use them.

I got through stage 2 but have subsequently been nocked back at stage 3, i should get my feedback as to why shortly.

All the best,

Sharky

hey,

I'm through to stage three and my mrs is getting quite worried. She is well aware that up to 9 months are spent away from home.

I already have 180ish hours so I'm hoping (if I'm successful) that the foundation should be minimal for me.

Does anyone know how long will be spent away from home in one spell?

Hi Gillespie,

I've got similar hours to you and have recently got onto the Wings course. Will hopefully be going out to NZ to start training in Jan.

If you're referring to the NZ phase, then as I understand it, depending on how many of the first 12 weeks you need out in NZ, the longest stay could be as much as 23 weeks. That covers 12 weeks for the full Foundation course then 11 weeks for the VFR phase. The only flexible is the Foundation course - once assessed by CTC they recommend how much of the 12 weeks you will need which will bring that figure down.

After those first 2 phases, there is leave and ground school for the ATPL exams back in blighty (about 4 weeks in total) followed by a second visit to NZ for 14 weeks for the IFR phase. The rest of the training is split between Bournemouth and Southampton. This covers the IR/CPL training, Intermediate and Advanced Training and includes leave.

I'm sure you will find a lot of people are in a similar position with the mrs, me included. 9 months out of the rest of your life is a small amount of time.

Hope this helps. Good luck at Stage 3&4.

Hey again!

Anyone who are in for testing phase 2, october 12.?

I am, and are housed at Stour Villa ..

Cheers Nearly,

well done for getting on the course. I'd love to say I'll see you out there, but I not going to count any chickens.

Just out of curiousity because you mentioned you had about the same amount of hours as me; how much of the foundation course do you need to complete?

Good advice about the mrs bit. 9 months is nothing compared to a life time!

Enjoy your training.

Hey Haavard

Will also be there on the 12th. Still looking for a place to stay.

What have you done in the way of preparation?

See you there!

Hey again!

Anyone who where at Phase 2 testing 12 october who have got theyr feedback from CTC?

It would be fun to know who got trough and not :)

Stage 3 - November 9th 2004
 

Hello people,

Finally got a Stage 3 date from CTC...not that I'm impatient...just excited you understand. :cool:

Anyway, I had my Stage 2 on Sept 14th and itd be cool to know if anyone else from that day was going along to this. Gimme a PM or e-mail if you are...

Regards,

Simon.

Hi Haavard

Got my feedback from stage 2 today...really pleased! Going to stage 3 at the end of this month.

Hope to see you there.

Oh thats great to hear chap :) As i told you, i am sure you will come a long way there.

My late arrival before the day, combined with some unknown words in the test made me perform bad, so as i expected, I did fail phase 2... i just used £1000 on it so..... :(

Keep me informed how you are doing in thoose later stages.

And for double check.. you are the one driving me around?
Tnx for that service miss daisy..

Hey future ctc'ers

I'm through to stage 3 on 28th October. Who's with me? I'm trying to build up a picture of how many co-candidates to expect.

Anyone got any tips for stage 3?

Good luck.

naivety?
 

This may be a naive question, to which the reply can be imagined, but how many of the peeps that make their way onto the CTC scheme are directly placed in a comfy right seat at the end of it?

what of the dissappointed?

i wondered given the size of the cheque(s) to be written:hmm:

cheers,

HF

Hi everyone,

There's a lot of dialogue between applicants and little or no feedback from guys on the scheme, so I thought I’d lend a word...

My advice on later stages of selection is to be your-self. In preparation for the interview try writing out a list of questions (and answering them!) you would ask a candidate in your shoes. Think about how you can answer these questions using concise examples and anecdotes to demonstrate motivation, attitude, “soft-skills”, teamwork and all those other important qualities they will be looking for. Be prepared and it will show…

Good Luck.
:ok:

Hi All,

Firstly, i'd like to thank everyone who have posted some feedback/information regarding their assesment days e.t.c, it's been most useful.
I've been fortunate enough to progress to stage two of the selection, which i will be attending this Tuesday (19th Oct). Is anyone else attending this session?

Many thanks, and good luck to all!
Geoff

Stage 3
 

Gillespie (and anyone else interested!)

I'm also attending Stage 3 on 28th October, but have you had feedback from Stage 2 yet - you know, I mean the detailed breakdown of how we did that we were promised?

See you on the 28th

Nearly a learner!,

I haven't received any feedback yet. Not sure weather it's coming in the post or via e-mail.

Looking forward to 28th. What are you doing in terms of preparation?

Preparation
 

Gillespie,

I've been getting some information off the web on each of the seven airlines in the scheme so that I have a bit of background on them and other than that I'm relying on my experiences from working for a major handling agent for four years. Also trying to think of some good examples to highlight my motivation and teamwork ability. I'm assuming by 'soft-skills' that Five5 means dealing with sensitive/difficult situations?

Where are you staying the night before? I'm staying at Ashdene House - I was too slow to book into Dale Farm, which I believe is very close to Dibden Manor. I wonder if we'll be allowed to use the facilities at the manor - swimming pool, gym etc. if we get through Thursday? Anybody out there know?

Errr... no swimming pool and no gym either at Dibden manor I'm afraid! there weren't any 2 months ago last time I was there anyway. Or maybe I missed something who knows! There is a mini golf though:cool: the putters are near the entrance!:D

good luck all with going through the phases. You'll enjoy your stay - they're really a great bunch down at CTC!

Nearly a Learner, are you applying for the wings selection (old cadet selection) or for the wings ATP programme (formerly known as ATP scheme)? If you are going for the cadets, there are only 2 companies that you need to study - eJ and Thomas Cook.

cheers all

JMC

Wings & Dibden
 

JMC,

Just had another look at the bit about Dibden Manor on CTC's website and read it more carefully! It says that there are leisure facilities nearby - that'll teach me to be more thorough!

Received an email from CTC around middle of September, this extract answers your question:

".....launch of the CTC Wings Programme, which replaces both the CTC McAlpine Sponsored Cadet Scheme and the CTC ATP Scheme. These are very exiting developments – we are pleased to announce additional airlines as Partner Airlines....."

The airlines that I mentioned in addition to Easyjet and Thomas Cook are the additional partner airlines so far. You'll notice that I only included a short extract - the whole document is a very informative 6 pages which I didn't think you would want to read! Very good for people like me applying to the scheme - they do seem to be very open in explaining all aspects of it.

Looking forward to next week - just hope I make it through.

Just wondering how long it normally takes for applicants to get a response after sending in the 4 questions. Sent mine in about 3 weeks ago and haven’t heard anything since. As I posted my answers I’m starting to wonder whether they actually arrived at the right place!

20VT, why don't you ring Jo Ward to confirm that they have received your application form? I got a reply just about 3 weeks after I had sent the form when I applied, so don't worry too much.

good luck

JMC

Bump...
 

*kicks thread up arse..."fly my pretty...FLY!!"*

Stage 3 excitement kicking in yet anyone? With all the time between Stage 2 & 3 (it'll be 2 months for me)...has anyone else been contemplating life without CTC? I'm not being pessimistic...far from it...just a realistic optimist... :cool:

However I am confident that if CTC isn't what I'm meant to do and hence, I don't get through...I have two defined back-up plans which I'm also quite excited about.

Whaddya reckon? Is it worse to think about (a) "If I don't get through this, that's my life over with...", or (b) "So what if I don't get through this? I've got other things planned."

As always - Opinions welcome. Bullsh*t frowned upon.

Regards,

Simon

Absolutely agree - you should have backup plans...it's the trait of a good pilot :p

I'm sure everyone must have at least VAGUE idea of a Plan B...and C...and...??? Even if it's sometimes hard to go into too much detail as you want A to work out so bad...:)

The routes into aviation are as many and varied as the people who follow 'em...

Good luck chaps/chapettes :ok:

Another Optimistic Realist,

V1R

You'll probably get asked what your back-up plans are in your interview... So if you have some fairly detailed, aviation-related plans then it'll work in your favour.... Shows you're keen