Airlines looking for pilots.
 

The number of airlines now looking for pilots must be reaching an all time high - and it's only going to get better, as retirements spiral over the next 10 years or so.

Let's have look at who's recruiting around Asia...please feel free to add to the list:-
SILK AIR - Singapore - A320
TIGER AIRWAYS -Singapore - B737
AIR JAPAN - Japan - B767
SKY NET ASIA - Japan - B737
JAL EXPRESS - Japan - MD90
NIPPON CARGO AIRWAYS - Japan - B747 Classic
VIETNAM AIRLINES - Viet Nam - B767.B777
SHENZEN AIRLINES - China - B73NG
HAINAN AIRLINE - China - B73NG
AIR INDIA - India - B747

Airlines that are going to need pilots in the near future are either going to have to start recruiting NOW, or make considerably significant increases to their current employment terms & conditions to lure pilots away from their present employers.

Ever wondered WHY there aren't going to be nearly enough experienced pilots to go around?
One only need look at the way pilots have been abused and screwed over the past 7-8years (or so) to realise why so many have been DRIVEN AWAY from flying, and why prospective pilots see no reasonable return on their massive cash outlay required for BASIC training.

Aggressive management MAY have saved a few pennies along the way, but it's going to cost POUNDS to rectify the situation they've created!

Kaptin, how could you forget Cathay and Dragon?
See inside back cover of this week's Fllight for article on recuitment and the coming upturn.
Good News for once I hope.

Plus in Europe (Actually just Britain!)...

Easyjet
Britania/Thomsonfly
Ryanair
British Airways
Virgin....

Things DO seem to be on the up...

So that's good news for the guys from My Travel who got their cards last month, but what about the rest of us trying to shake of the turbo-prop disease?

Out of the Turboprop on your own? Diffucult but not impossible. Try as many operators you know. One day the requirement will
drop and you would be able to get a position. First the market will absorb the qualified and current pilots. After the operators cannot fill the seats then typeratings with training bonds will be offered. Sit tight and wait ..... Singapore, Quatar and more are already given convertions and they are still not get enough Pilots.

Good luck

NG

thats all great but most of these companies want jet time or a rating .Both i dont have :ugh:

close to 4.000 hours lots of turbine and PIC but thats it .
.....University degree in psychology ......Nobody cares about LOL

i keep slugging away i guess

Maybe the 600 000 private pilots in the USA will get desent jobs soon !!?

Shenlin:

I simply cannot believe that you really do have a University Degree in Psychology.

If you had, then you would surely understand that the last the thing you would ever want to tell any prospective airline employer (when seeking employment as a pilot) was that you had a University Degree in Psychology!

JW411,
Not using joined up thinking, JW. He'd be a cert for CRM Trainer,
a nesseccary precursor for senior management in any modern airline. Cynical, moi?

nesseccary=necessary.

Hey, nothing against Psychology. It may not be the most suitable study field for a pilot (sometimes it may be indeed), but at least you have a university degree, that places you above average and showed that you did something.
Actually I know of a pilot who was psychologist before. He really was one of the best pilots I ever flew with, also because of CRM.

Very interesting article in Flight magazine today about the pilot situation in Russia where they are getting despartely short of pilots due to poor pay and company expansion.

The poor pay is driving Russian pilots to see employment overseas so watch out guys your job might be taken by our friends from Russia!

Joking apart times seem to be improving and I dont think the recent hike in oil prices will have any significant effect. Apparently once the oil price hits $40 a barrel (like now!) it becomes economic to start mining it from other areas which in turn will bring the prices back down again.

Why would i not tell any company that i have a degree in psychology ?
I flew twin otters and beavers on floats before i got my current job , so my hands and feet skills are pretty good . I fly single pilot IFR now and my interpersonal skills are ok as i am told by many friends .
Should i lie about my university education and have a 4 year void on my application ?

If thats what it takes to get a jet job i might not want it afterall .
thanks for the input so

Nothing in this industry surprises me anymore ....

Nothing in this industry surprises me anymore ....

You are SO right, Shenlin.
The profession of pilot has been systematically attacked over the past decade, by airline "managers" and H.R. departments whose singular objective and sole purpose appeared to be that of destroying pilots' conditions by FORCE, rather than through negotiation and mediation.
And so although our work tasks have primarily remained the same, a lot more (unnecessary) stress and aggravation have been added to the job by having to deal with people intent on trying to destroy a job that could give satisfaction by striving to SAVE money for the employer.
Pilots used to ENJOY going to work years ago - regardless of the length of duty hours involved.
Over the years, management have been successful in reducing conditions to such that flying is "justa another job".As a matter of fact, it is quite often LESS than "just another job", due to the long periods spent away from home, the unproductive scheduling of crews, and the miserable salaries paid which are not commensurate with the regularly checked levels of proficiency and high medical standards that must be maintained.

Yes, airlines ARE now looking for pilots, but if they want to ATTRACT and KEEP them, they are going to have to make it WORTHWILE, and restore the profession to what it was before.

Benefits that have been withdrawn, and that cost NOTHING - such as First Class travel, and foc travel on space available - are the "extras" that might convince a pilot to choose employer A over employer B.

With many pilots as p!ssed off as they are, and with the increasing demand, I believe that there may be an opening for "part-time" pilots - pilots who are happy to work say 3 or 4 days per week.

I believe that the impending pilot shortage can, in large part, be attributed to the shoddy treatment pilots have been dished out.

As an example of how companies are starting to feel the squeeze, I know of 1 guy who has had a recent job offer in China increased by USD1,000 per month plus a FREE conversion (from the 73 Classic) onto the NG.
Another pilot was told that all he had to do to get the job was "show up...no interview, no sim check ride", free ticket provided.

Don't sell yourselves cheap - it is only going to get better.
But it is up to EACH and EVERY one of us to try to get the BEST we can (which is why it is in the companies' interests to exclude unions).
Conditions ARE negotiable - regardless of what you are told.
After all, contracts are "Individual"!
Happy Hunting.

Shenlin

please ignore JW411


I'm sure you'll be fine

lots of jobs coming up. The oil price will be absorbed by the travelling public

w0w
 

thats good news :D especially for those thinking of starting a pilot education ;)

Kaptin M

Perhaps for "With many pilots as p!ssed off as they are", we should read "With Kaptin M as p!ssed off as he is", and for "the shoddy treatment pilots have been dished out", we should read "the shoddy treatment Kaptin M has been dished out"...
;)

Agree with you though, I have pretty much decided to leave the industry and do something else. I can't reconcile the amount of responsibility we are expected to shoulder, the level of skill we are required to demonstrate, and the ease with which we can lose our livelihood every six months, with the the petty degradation in our pay and conditions.

When you consider that one of us screwing up could easily end an airline, we are not valued nearly highly enough these days, especially when upper-middle managers are getting more perks than we will ever see.

I for one have had enough of having my life dicked about by Crewing - paying for their screw-ups with my time; staring at hotel rooms, wasting my life spending weeks at outstations.

There are much better things in life...

I agree that employment conditions are deteriorating year after year. Not everywhere, but in most places. On the other hand I can understand to a certain degree that HR guys and airline chiefs try to destroy the once shiny picture of the "god of the skies", because we have seen some very unhealthy practises of pilots and their unions over the years. Some companies seem to be in the strong hand of a powerful pilot union, and some even go bankrupt (not only because of the unions but they maybe could avoid it without them).
Sometimes I miss the common sense when I talk to pilots, common sense, which is the most important thing in a cockpit. But also in strategic issues and economic consideration within the industry. The middle of the road is where you have the biggest distance to the edges. :ok:

Dani

The problem is that many corporate organisations these days lack leadership. They are "controlled" by accountants who have no entrepreneurial or people skills worth talking about and they know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

The only people that understand the pilot's job are pilots! Nobody else understands what it feels like when you strap that big shiny jet to your backside with 200 + people behind you and the responsibility which is involved.

I have always said that the most challenging bit of being an airline pilot is staying with it when you are feeling tired. With the current "creative crewing" practices which are around in many companies now this is even more true.

I started airline flying in 1971 - no doubt about it, the job is NOT what it used to be. Pilots are no longer respected by management and most of the travelling public regard us as overpaid button pushers!

Man I wish you pilots would stop winding ! I always admired the job of a pilot untill I discovered PPRUN.
You guys have the best jobs on earth. You stay in great hotels all over the world. Every day you go to 'work', you go on another holiday!
You do not know what it is to do a real job!
And how high would your aeroplanes get off the ground if the check-in staff where not there, or the engineers did not sign out the aircraft, or the marketing department did not sell tickets, or the baggage handlers did not load the aircraft ? I should not mention the words, "glorified bus drivers" ? Sorry!!
You are just part of a team and part of a huge company.
If you realy want to get rich, you will have to bite the bullet and start you own business (own airline like Nikki Lauda did) ! Then you will find out what real pressures are! Not just raking in huge salaries without knowing where the money comes from.
Enjoy your next holidays !!!

That last post is bound to get a few backs up. :D

Really?............


BTW must agree with Kaptin M, the job is going down hill fast.
Now, not wanting to start a BALPA bashing.....How come the TGWU can get a deal for its underground drivers of more £ & a four day 32 hour week. While we see our T&C get worse & worse?.......... :rolleyes:

(& I am a BALPA member!)

aagg you seem to be duplicating your posts on different threads?

I do love the attempt to wind people up with the old classics "Glorified bus driver" and "every day is a holiday"

I am sure no one will rise to you crude attempt to annoy them as obviously you are to ignorant to care or understand the difficulty’s that people encounter in all aspects of what you perceive as being the worlds best job.
I would suggest you get to know some pilots so you can then better understand.

I am sure then your comments would be better received?

AAGG,

you forgot the best of all, the wonderfull treatment we get from the stewardesses;)

........and you CAN get a jobb without rating.....Was hired about a month ago to fly Airbus....only have turbo-prop experience...

Good luck!!!

Better change your handle then Captain prop!

Well done, good luck!:ok:

YYZ, sorry for mentioning the busdriver thing ! ;)

What about part time working?
 

I think the EU will make all companies offer it from next year and that can only add to any pilot shortage.

Quite rightly aagg - it`s an insult to bus drivers to compare them to pilots.

Bus drivers enjoy far better conditions than many pilots eg. loadings for working on public holidays/week-ends/night time, extra money for overtime, no charge for "endorsements", not having to wait for late/no show pax.....

Back to subject - I see that Flight International reports that one of the Chinese airlines is going to recruit foreign pilots for the first time in their history.

Airlines looking for pilots - sure makes a nice change from "pilots looking for airlines"!

Kaptin M,

I hope you were joking when you said our T&C's are better than many pilots... Maybe in your neck of the woods, but not here. With top end of £12 per hour, my job is for only two types;

Those (like me) who are working to further ambitions..

And those with no ambition.

Careerwise it's the pits, all of it, T&C's, management, everyone thinks your scum because you drive a bus, including management!!

Sound familiar???

OTB:ok:

So, aagg, are you just basing your opinions on 1970's stereotypes, or do you really think spending Christmas Eve in a Holiday Inn Express with a closed bar, closed restaurant and noisy corridors, away from your family, is really that great?

You clearly have no idea of the working conditions, pressures and responsiblities of the modern pilot, so perhaps you might find out before posting such a remark.

Well folks, this is PPRUNE nowadays:


It did started supposedly to allow professional pilots to have serious discussion about problems affecting their profession, and nowadays it is an open door to ANYONE .

Some frustrated individuals in their majority barely capable to drive a small car, acting as “aviation expertise” telling us how good is our life, and how spoiled we are!:}

A Babel tower, full of i***s who think that they have a lot of knowledge about Professional Aviators lives.:yuk: :mad:

They do think that anyone capable to manage Microsoft Flight Simulator is capable to fly an aeroplane.:hmm:
“What’s the big deal?
It is just a matter to seat and push some buttons, piece of cake isn’t? “

To quote aagg:

“And how high would your aeroplanes get off the ground if the check-in staff where not there, or the engineers did not sign out the aircraft, or the marketing department did not sell tickets, or the baggage handlers did not load the aircraft? I should not mention the words, "glorified bus drivers" ? Sorry!!
You are just part of a team and part of a huge company. “

Well it seems that you are one of those terribly frustrated with your position within your company.

And you also think that it is terribly unfair for you to work were you work, because in your sick mind you think that those spoiled guys raking huge salaries without knowing from were their salaries are paid, are unfairly getting the benefits and appreciation, isn’t?:rolleyes:

Well aagg, I can clarify how things really work in Professional Aviation.

There are several departments on the organization ,this is truth.

Marketing, Sales, Engineers, loaders, etc.

However, there is only one Department and group of people, who is in charge of the FINAL LINE OF PRODUCTION, and these are the pilots!

Those spoiled guys in your distorted point of view and mind, who place their entire lives and family future every six months in a Licence renewal process.

Those spoiled guys, who have to study and attend courses continuously to ensure that they will have further six months of employment.

Those spoiled and rich guys who have to spend countless nights away from family meanwhile their families, friends, children and wife blow candles, spend Christmas or New Year eve without them being present.

Those unfairly rich guys who do their utmost to deliver the ship and everybody safe to their destinations, regardless time in the day, or night.


These are the people responsible for the success of any airline in the planet, because simply they are the FINAL LINE OF PRODUCTION.

Pilots are those who ensure and highly contribute for their airlines profits, not people like you with your kind of mentality.:*

You can have the best airline team in the world, however if you do not have PILOTS
(You know, those rich and spoiled guys) you can not fly the aircraft, so then no profit no money.

Therefore, the aircraft will go nowhere without pilots, and crew.

I am sure from now on; you will be one more of those enthusiastic campaigners for Pilot less aircraft.

In addition, regarding about “certain entrepreneurs” in aviation, it would be better for you to do some serious research about, before praising them, you may get deeply surprised the “techniques” they use to make their fortunes.


End to the quote:


As a last one, I just have to wait to be reprimanded by the moderators of this thread for my language.;)


Mercurius

Good one, Captain Mercurius...

How i wish you r the boss...

Some valid points Capt M but I reckon we need to also remember that although we as pilots (or trainee pilots in my case) are the last link in the 'supply chain', there are others that are also working hard to ensure we get bums on seats, making sure the aircraft isn't tech, making sure there are crew for the flight etc... If they don't do their job properly then we can't do ours...in that sense we're all equally important in the supply chain, ideally working towards a common goal.

No I'm not airline management. Yes I work for an airline and yes I am training to join the pilot fraternity.

RichC

waste of time!
 

Oh, my God!

I can´t believe how could some fellows be so naive to give attention to b......t producers like aagg. He´s probably LOL on thinking - " how I pissed off those pilots!"...
C´m on guys, lets simply ignore idiots like this and make good use of this wonderful space!...
cheers

Well, I agree that a pilot is not a bus driver, and that you have to expect to walk out from a simulator for the last time every six months (something I experienced myself!). But all those individuals among us who ever had a good job with some degree of responsability outside the cockpit, all those who didn't just jump off the school into flight training, we all know: Life in the daily battle of the free market forces is at least as hard, pay is seldome higher and working conditions are much harder for sure. The only advantage of a white collar worker is that often he will not suffer from the error he is creating, he will just be fired, but he will survive.

Dani, airline pilot

Captain Mercurius, agree 100%!

Reminds me of an occasion a long while ago at a staff meeting for a leading charter airline where another element of the work force were complaining about the fact that pilots got yearly increments and they didn't.

The Managing Director (who was very respected by all) said, "It's quite simple - if you want pilot's pay then go and become a pilot".
Silence followed!

what a beautiful flight again last evening, a very nice visual approach with a short final and a smooth and gentle landing, followed by a short hop to another island , where the 1 st officer made a rather ferm landing.

Looked around prepared for the return flight , including the pax figures , baggage weight , notams , fuel , weather , route , take off performance- with the ambient wind , temperature , air pressure , weight, runway length , speeds and thrust , special passengers , local rules etcetera.

A nice return flight avoiding the thunderstorms, delaying descent , to avoid the thunderstorms underneath us right then, followed by a steeper descent and a nice approach and landing by the 1 st officer who was still a bit "pissed"by his landing before... gentle braking the 83 tons landing weight from 135 knots down to taxi speed...

And on the bus back to the car park , saying hello to the bus driver and getting a nice reply from him....

We respect each other in one's job, that's normal isn't it ?

Cheers , Endeavour

The purpose of an airline is to fly aeroplanes.

The purpose of those who don't is to support those that do !!

Sorry fellow professionals, this post is not entirely appropriate for the title of this thread.
However:

Aagg
I cannot resist replying to your ignorant, immature, provocative post.

We sit 7 miles up in the sky, often many hours away from a suitable airport, responsible for Millions dollars and hundreds of lives.
In the blink of an eye, any number of failures or climatic events, perhaps a combination of both, can mean those lives and the aircraft are in jeopardy.

Our expertise and experience is what we are paid for ! Simple as that !

Meanwhile, the Engineers, baggage handlers, check-in staff and ticket sellers ( whose job, I couldn’t agree more, is crucially important in a successful & efficient Airline ) are at home having a nice cup of tea with the wife and kids.

Unless you’ve been there and done it, you simply have no clue !

One of the best instructors I had told me once: There are two kinds of people in the airline industry. Those who are pilots, and those who want to be pilots..... Although I am sure there are many people who enjoy their jobs in all industries, it does have some truth to it...
AAG, let me clarify something. Management decides where I fly the airplane, and the marketing and sales people make sure it does get filled. The other lovely people in the organization make sure everything runs smoothly, and the engineers make sure I have a good flying machine to take the paying passengers around. We upfront take them safely and efficiently to their friends and family, to their loved ones or to their job. We do that day and night, raining or sunshine.
Flying is a profession that requires a high degree of skill, inteligence and most of all responsibilty. It requires decisions now, and not tomorrow, or after a meeting, and a working group. Everyone else in the airline can get it wrong, but not us. We cannot get things done in our time, but in the time dictated by the situation we are in. We are in crisis management everyday and although I do enjoy what I do, I do not see the reason not to get paid well for it either, especialy since it takes alot of energy and effort on my part, not just when I am working, but most of my everyday life.
The people I see working however on the other side of the desk, do not seem to me to be puting the amount of effort, time, money, and skill to deserve the money we make upfront.
It is a free country, and if you think you deserve more, then leave your present job, go to the bank and ask for 120000 pounds, and come and join us.