Paying/ Not Paying for TYpe Rating
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paying/ Not Paying for TYpe Rating
Following on from another thread, which airlines ask you to pay for type rating, and which ones will sponsor your type rating, at the present time?
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The main players that ask you to pay for your type rating, in one way or another is, All of Them.
The normal way of things is that you are bonded, see Tailscrape's excellent explanation about how it works below. The idea is to stop people from getting a type rating and running off to another airline.
Some of the airlines now ask that you pay for the cost of the type rating up front, such as Ryanair and Easyjet. I have heard that some airlines will bond you for any differences training if you turn up with a type rating that was bought from a supplier that use different SOP's.
Welcome to the wacky world of wanting to be a commercial pilot.
The normal way of things is that you are bonded, see Tailscrape's excellent explanation about how it works below. The idea is to stop people from getting a type rating and running off to another airline.
Some of the airlines now ask that you pay for the cost of the type rating up front, such as Ryanair and Easyjet. I have heard that some airlines will bond you for any differences training if you turn up with a type rating that was bought from a supplier that use different SOP's.
Welcome to the wacky world of wanting to be a commercial pilot.
Last edited by Flypuppy; 22nd Jul 2003 at 07:27.
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The situation in companies changes regularly. Best thing to do is to spend a couple of hours reading through PPJN
Terrier
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: moonbase alpha
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FLYPUPPY
Bonding does not work like that generally.
Either of these three thing happen in UK aviation generally:
A) No bonding, because the airline does not believe in them. i.e. B.A.
B) A bond, which you sign for a specific amount of money over a period of time. Normally circa £12000 over 3 years. The aim here is that the bond deteriorates over time. Basically it erodes over 36 months, so if you leave in month 2, you owe £12000/36 x 34 (the amount of months left owing).......or if you leave in month 16, you owe £12000/36 x 20...... and if you leave at the end, you owe nothing. Generally you pay nothing out of salary at all. So, you are wrong on that point. e.g. Britannia, jmc, Air2000,Monarch and many others do something like this.
c) Scabby operators make you pay the full amount up front for their legitimate business expenses. e.g. Ryanair, BAC express etc.
My advice is : DON'T PAY FOR A RATING!
Bonding does not work like that generally.
Either of these three thing happen in UK aviation generally:
A) No bonding, because the airline does not believe in them. i.e. B.A.
B) A bond, which you sign for a specific amount of money over a period of time. Normally circa £12000 over 3 years. The aim here is that the bond deteriorates over time. Basically it erodes over 36 months, so if you leave in month 2, you owe £12000/36 x 34 (the amount of months left owing).......or if you leave in month 16, you owe £12000/36 x 20...... and if you leave at the end, you owe nothing. Generally you pay nothing out of salary at all. So, you are wrong on that point. e.g. Britannia, jmc, Air2000,Monarch and many others do something like this.
c) Scabby operators make you pay the full amount up front for their legitimate business expenses. e.g. Ryanair, BAC express etc.
My advice is : DON'T PAY FOR A RATING!
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tailscrape, thanks for the correction. I will second your advice though: DONT PAY FOR A RATING!
Sorry about the slip, I have temporarily taken leave of my insanity.
Sorry about the slip, I have temporarily taken leave of my insanity.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Up In The Sky...
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the Easy Website for their Type Rating Sponsorship Scheme:
"We will require a bond of £23,000 - representing a proportion of the total training costs we will incur, which we will require you have available at the beginning of the training course and be deposited with our training provider. This bond will be transferred to us when we employ you on completion of the training - normally about 2 months after starting training.
Initially therefore you must apply to us in the normal way on this website and undergo our normal selection process. If successful, you will be introduced to a funding facility to obtain an unsecured loan for the bond money required. On employment, we will pay you back this bond over 5 years so that you can, in turn, repay the loan you took to fund that bond.
If you join us under this scheme, you will be on the Type Rating Sponsorship Scheme salary rate for 5 years!!!
RANK (attained within sponsored period) TRRS basic salary (5 yrs)
First Officers £26,789
Senior First Officers £34,023
Captains £59,363
Basic salary if rank attained within the first five years of employment.
Please note that you will receive 90% of your basic salary during the first six months of your employment.
What if I have my own capital or perhaps wish to arrange my own loan to pay this bond?
No problem at all, we will still pay you the sponsored scale of salary for the first five years and also, a monthly repayment of that bond that you gave us initially at the rate of £5000 per year".
Ryanair on the other hand make it a little simpler; you come up with your own money to pay for your own rating after you've been selected, tested, sim checked and interviewed by both the approved TRTO and Ryanair. You do the type course, join the company, and pay your own loan back! The earnings are bit higher than that of easy for a new first officer (basic is lower but sector pay is a lot higher), and there is no bond or restrictions on pay once 6 months of line flying have been completed after line training.
"We will require a bond of £23,000 - representing a proportion of the total training costs we will incur, which we will require you have available at the beginning of the training course and be deposited with our training provider. This bond will be transferred to us when we employ you on completion of the training - normally about 2 months after starting training.
Initially therefore you must apply to us in the normal way on this website and undergo our normal selection process. If successful, you will be introduced to a funding facility to obtain an unsecured loan for the bond money required. On employment, we will pay you back this bond over 5 years so that you can, in turn, repay the loan you took to fund that bond.
If you join us under this scheme, you will be on the Type Rating Sponsorship Scheme salary rate for 5 years!!!
RANK (attained within sponsored period) TRRS basic salary (5 yrs)
First Officers £26,789
Senior First Officers £34,023
Captains £59,363
Basic salary if rank attained within the first five years of employment.
Please note that you will receive 90% of your basic salary during the first six months of your employment.
What if I have my own capital or perhaps wish to arrange my own loan to pay this bond?
No problem at all, we will still pay you the sponsored scale of salary for the first five years and also, a monthly repayment of that bond that you gave us initially at the rate of £5000 per year".
Ryanair on the other hand make it a little simpler; you come up with your own money to pay for your own rating after you've been selected, tested, sim checked and interviewed by both the approved TRTO and Ryanair. You do the type course, join the company, and pay your own loan back! The earnings are bit higher than that of easy for a new first officer (basic is lower but sector pay is a lot higher), and there is no bond or restrictions on pay once 6 months of line flying have been completed after line training.
Last edited by MorningGlory; 24th Jul 2003 at 22:15.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far too often at Big Airports
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the Easyjet website:
compared with
You might think you can live with the pay disparity, just by looking at the numbers, but say 3-4 years down the line and you are a Captain, you do exactly the same job as other captains, take exactly the same level of responsibility and stress as other captains, but you are getting £5k per year basic less. Still think it is worth it? You might say "yes" now, but after 3-4 years of clambering up the seniority list 4-5 sectors per day and 0330 starts on cold ****ty winter mornings, I am not so sure I could.
Captain £64,363
Senior First Officers £39,023
First Officer (frozen ATPL) £31,789
Senior First Officers £39,023
First Officer (frozen ATPL) £31,789
First Officers £26,789
Senior First Officers £34,023
Captains £59,363
Senior First Officers £34,023
Captains £59,363
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First Officers £26,7891
Senior First Officers £34,0231
Captains £59,3631
Senior First Officers £34,0231
Captains £59,3631
The true figures are definitely below industry par.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Age: 47
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DO NOT PAY FOR A TYPE RATING
A couple of fellow instructors at work have recently been taken by a 737-200 operator. Paid during their training and then a decent salary during line training and then subsequent employment.
RL
A couple of fellow instructors at work have recently been taken by a 737-200 operator. Paid during their training and then a decent salary during line training and then subsequent employment.
RL
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Getting back to the original question, Tailscrape mentioned Ryanair and BAC Express charge for type ratings.
a)Does anyone know who else asks for up front payment?
b)Do all the others take a bond?
I can think of the nightmare scennario of pilots making no money at all, because they're moving between airlines "for advancement " every couple of years, and having to pay to be type rated on the next aircraft which they may be asked to fly!
Thanks in advance.
a)Does anyone know who else asks for up front payment?
b)Do all the others take a bond?
I can think of the nightmare scennario of pilots making no money at all, because they're moving between airlines "for advancement " every couple of years, and having to pay to be type rated on the next aircraft which they may be asked to fly!
Thanks in advance.
sqk0612,
For me the nightmare scenario is paying for line training etc. At least you could consider a TR as not in too much of a different category to paying for MCC/AQC's etc. Line training you're paying whilst someone charges for pax too.
Splat
For me the nightmare scenario is paying for line training etc. At least you could consider a TR as not in too much of a different category to paying for MCC/AQC's etc. Line training you're paying whilst someone charges for pax too.
Splat
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
splat,
Must say, that's a new one- paying for line training. Haven't heard of that. I would have thought that, in line training, you're actually working, and producing revenue for the company.
Must say, that's a new one- paying for line training. Haven't heard of that. I would have thought that, in line training, you're actually working, and producing revenue for the company.