Type rating of choice - hypothetically
Look where the jobs are. Low cost airlines types are the answer. And also take into account that Airbus offer training with an aircraft order, so a Boeing rating is going to be more useful in getting that job.
Dan,
Quote "And also take into account that Airbus offer training with an aircraft order"
Where did you get this info from? I was left with a very different impresion from the Easy roadshows....
Splat
Quote "And also take into account that Airbus offer training with an aircraft order"
Where did you get this info from? I was left with a very different impresion from the Easy roadshows....
Splat
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If you are a low hours pilot with no commercial experience, you might get a job on a shed or ATR with just the rating, some 737/Airbus operators might want more than just the rating.
if you go for the 737, it might be worth investing another few thousand with a TRTO that does line training so you get a few hundred hours on type as well.
if you go for the 737, it might be worth investing another few thousand with a TRTO that does line training so you get a few hundred hours on type as well.
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Tailscrape, after completing your initial flying training and achieving your ATPL, why not make yourself more marketable by getting a type rating. I understand the financial aspect, however it would make more sense to get a 737 rating, rather than join the ranks of low paid flying instructors unable to make a living. Yes it's a gamble, but so is investing £35000 in your future career anyway. Ideally we would all like to join the BA cadetship, but alas, this isn't always achievable.
To answer the question posed initially: 737 or 320 would do the trick. Rgds.
To answer the question posed initially: 737 or 320 would do the trick. Rgds.
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Chokdee
Most airlines realise that a rating is not enough. Having a stamp in your licence does not mean you are up to the standards demanded by most UK airlines.
The sad fact is that quite a few low hours pilots who are SELECTED by airlines are not up to the grade. They need lots of training, sectors, hand holding and sometimes unfortunately a portion do not get through the rigorous line training.
I know for a fact that my airline will not accept people with just a rating.
It is of no interest to them, because they have a TRAINING DEPARTMENT, which has a budget.
The airline will only employ the people it wants, which means more than just a stamp in a book.
So, go and pay for a rating if you will. However, you will not be working for the best airlines. You will find that an airline who doesn't want to shoulder the bill for it's training will also offer poor terms and conditions elsewhere. And, more importantly you are just eroding the flying career still further.
I would not shout too loudly to experienced pilots about what you will do in your attempts to prostitute yourself. They will not admire you, they will pity you.
So, pay if you like, but I bet you will still be unemployed this time next year. No one wants desperate "Daddy will pay types". They want decent pilots, and it just MAY be possible that someone who pays for the privilege of working will be greeted with mistrust and suspicion.
Because.....after all, if an airline won't employ you properly.....there just may be the possibility that some may not be good enough for some airlines. That is a real thing to think about.
Debate...............
Most airlines realise that a rating is not enough. Having a stamp in your licence does not mean you are up to the standards demanded by most UK airlines.
The sad fact is that quite a few low hours pilots who are SELECTED by airlines are not up to the grade. They need lots of training, sectors, hand holding and sometimes unfortunately a portion do not get through the rigorous line training.
I know for a fact that my airline will not accept people with just a rating.
It is of no interest to them, because they have a TRAINING DEPARTMENT, which has a budget.
The airline will only employ the people it wants, which means more than just a stamp in a book.
So, go and pay for a rating if you will. However, you will not be working for the best airlines. You will find that an airline who doesn't want to shoulder the bill for it's training will also offer poor terms and conditions elsewhere. And, more importantly you are just eroding the flying career still further.
I would not shout too loudly to experienced pilots about what you will do in your attempts to prostitute yourself. They will not admire you, they will pity you.
So, pay if you like, but I bet you will still be unemployed this time next year. No one wants desperate "Daddy will pay types". They want decent pilots, and it just MAY be possible that someone who pays for the privilege of working will be greeted with mistrust and suspicion.
Because.....after all, if an airline won't employ you properly.....there just may be the possibility that some may not be good enough for some airlines. That is a real thing to think about.
Debate...............
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For type ratings in the Airline market, I think either a B737 (doesnt really matter of the series with Squeezy, Ryanair and European) or an A320. Anything else is trying to hit a very small market with an very limiting type. They are the major recruiters and have the best opportunities for anyone whose willing to self finance.
Im in the corporate sector and am just about to pay for a type rating. The company in qestion have put me on next years salary to compensate for the initial outlay.
I was really against the idea initially, however, thinking about it - its an employers market they call the shots. Meet the requirements or get back into the pile, sad I know - but its supply and demand after all.
HomerSimpson
Im in the corporate sector and am just about to pay for a type rating. The company in qestion have put me on next years salary to compensate for the initial outlay.
I was really against the idea initially, however, thinking about it - its an employers market they call the shots. Meet the requirements or get back into the pile, sad I know - but its supply and demand after all.
HomerSimpson
Tailscrape,
You put your views accross very forcibly and eloquently, and I respect you for that. In the interest of balance, I'd just like to mention that there is another view to self sponsored TR's. Speak to Mario at Astreaus for one.
Paying for TR's has always been around and my feeling is that it always will be. I know of a couple of people for whome it's opened doors, one in the mid 90's and another more recently. In both cases it was on a jet. There are many more that have gone the Streamline route too.
The whole licence issue has always been a complete gamble and at the end of the day it's all about making oneself more marketable. No one questions spending 3K on an MCC rating, 8K on an AQC via CTC, IR's, ATPL's etc etc, none of which makes any promise of employment.
What I'm trying to say is that I respect your view, but don't be over critical of those who have not been fortunate enough to have landed a job without a TR. Sure, TR's are no guarantee, but it might make you more marketable. It's just another gamble.
Splat
You put your views accross very forcibly and eloquently, and I respect you for that. In the interest of balance, I'd just like to mention that there is another view to self sponsored TR's. Speak to Mario at Astreaus for one.
Paying for TR's has always been around and my feeling is that it always will be. I know of a couple of people for whome it's opened doors, one in the mid 90's and another more recently. In both cases it was on a jet. There are many more that have gone the Streamline route too.
The whole licence issue has always been a complete gamble and at the end of the day it's all about making oneself more marketable. No one questions spending 3K on an MCC rating, 8K on an AQC via CTC, IR's, ATPL's etc etc, none of which makes any promise of employment.
What I'm trying to say is that I respect your view, but don't be over critical of those who have not been fortunate enough to have landed a job without a TR. Sure, TR's are no guarantee, but it might make you more marketable. It's just another gamble.
Splat
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splat
My point is that I don't think they really make you more marketable. Not to the better outfits anyway.
easyJet on their website state "that a rating alone is not enough".... you need hours too.
A rating will not help you at BA, they will make you do the course again. And at Britannia too. And most likely at jmc as well in some form.
So, I don't disagree that it MAY help in some places, but remember for all those "successes" you mention....there are a lot of pilots "crying over spilt milk" because they bought a rating and never got a job.
And getting a job is what counts.
My point is that I don't think they really make you more marketable. Not to the better outfits anyway.
easyJet on their website state "that a rating alone is not enough".... you need hours too.
A rating will not help you at BA, they will make you do the course again. And at Britannia too. And most likely at jmc as well in some form.
So, I don't disagree that it MAY help in some places, but remember for all those "successes" you mention....there are a lot of pilots "crying over spilt milk" because they bought a rating and never got a job.
And getting a job is what counts.
Tailscrape,
Point taken, not sure I fully subscribe to your point of view judging from my personal experiences of people I know who've gone down that route. It never ceases to amaze me what companies say on the one hand, and what they actually do in reality can be quite different! Sure it does not always work out, but then nor did it for everyone sitting the ATPL's.
Splat
Point taken, not sure I fully subscribe to your point of view judging from my personal experiences of people I know who've gone down that route. It never ceases to amaze me what companies say on the one hand, and what they actually do in reality can be quite different! Sure it does not always work out, but then nor did it for everyone sitting the ATPL's.
Splat
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Foghorns choice
Foghorn old boy.
I reply to ur question not as a paying for a rating basher, but merely as someone whos about to save u a fortune, a life and a serious loss of faith (and face).
I am, unfortunately one of those misguided fools who on the back of some "expert" advise went ahead and paid for a rating. B 737 300/900 is what it now says on my licence. The organisation I did the rating with,promised the sun, moon and all of the stars in terms of what they would give i.e. all of the post type rating courses and the line training into the bargain. They shall remain nameless, but are well known and based in the south of england. So the whole thing goes to plan and i get the rating.....to discover that i had paid my money to a bunch of thieves and liars...dozens of phone calls and e-mails later....nothing, Line training and courses not forthcoming. I hasten to add they have never actually refused to do the line training, only excuses as to why they cant offer the training " at the moment" . Meanwhile back at the ranch, im sending cv's making the calls .....zero.
The H.R. bods at the airlines dont care what ur licence says. They care about the fact that u dont have line training and/or hours on type. So go and pay ur money and take ur chances and see what the repayments feel like this time next year when you still have not even seen a signpost to the promised land.
my advice .......go on the piss for the next 6 months with your money. At least that way you will have the liver transplant to tell your mates about.......rather than your mates constantly asking about the job that hasnt happened and having to politely change the conversation to something a little more comfortable.
These days I like to use a quotation from Oscar Wilde albeit in an entirely different context..........THE LOVE THAT DARE NOT SPEAK ITS NAME.
Thread very carefully my friend......you WILL live to regret it.
I reply to ur question not as a paying for a rating basher, but merely as someone whos about to save u a fortune, a life and a serious loss of faith (and face).
I am, unfortunately one of those misguided fools who on the back of some "expert" advise went ahead and paid for a rating. B 737 300/900 is what it now says on my licence. The organisation I did the rating with,promised the sun, moon and all of the stars in terms of what they would give i.e. all of the post type rating courses and the line training into the bargain. They shall remain nameless, but are well known and based in the south of england. So the whole thing goes to plan and i get the rating.....to discover that i had paid my money to a bunch of thieves and liars...dozens of phone calls and e-mails later....nothing, Line training and courses not forthcoming. I hasten to add they have never actually refused to do the line training, only excuses as to why they cant offer the training " at the moment" . Meanwhile back at the ranch, im sending cv's making the calls .....zero.
The H.R. bods at the airlines dont care what ur licence says. They care about the fact that u dont have line training and/or hours on type. So go and pay ur money and take ur chances and see what the repayments feel like this time next year when you still have not even seen a signpost to the promised land.
my advice .......go on the piss for the next 6 months with your money. At least that way you will have the liver transplant to tell your mates about.......rather than your mates constantly asking about the job that hasnt happened and having to politely change the conversation to something a little more comfortable.
These days I like to use a quotation from Oscar Wilde albeit in an entirely different context..........THE LOVE THAT DARE NOT SPEAK ITS NAME.
Thread very carefully my friend......you WILL live to regret it.
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Unfortunately, paying your own rating is fast on the way of becoming the norm in some markets.... Best example is in Switzerland right now, where laid-off Swiss pilots get just enough cash as a parting gift to buy a nice TR... So those guys are flooding the offices of corporate operators, offering to pay for their G4, G5 ratings and such... I even heard of a guy who got hired not only paying for his rating, but accepting an additional training bond for the line intro as well!!!
However, the "buy your own rating" only works for people whow already have quite a few jet hours, because then the operators see a better chance of a short line-intro.. So I definitely would NOT adorn a fresh-baked ATP with a jet rating. Better off to buy something smaller, or corporate...
If you got the jet hours, and can't leave it alone, go for the 320 though, it's sooooo nice...
However, the "buy your own rating" only works for people whow already have quite a few jet hours, because then the operators see a better chance of a short line-intro.. So I definitely would NOT adorn a fresh-baked ATP with a jet rating. Better off to buy something smaller, or corporate...
If you got the jet hours, and can't leave it alone, go for the 320 though, it's sooooo nice...
Grim Sleeper
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Go for the 737-3/4/500. It's a pretty basic, primitive platform by today's standards and easier to transition to if you're going in straight from props. It's still the most numerous type in use with UK/European jet operators, and in terms of jobs it's probably a safer bet.
Start on the A319/320/321 you'll give yourself headaches trying to get your head round the complexity if it's your first type, plus it will be harder to get experience on type as most of the UK Bus operators are pretty hard to get into at the moment.
Start on the A319/320/321 you'll give yourself headaches trying to get your head round the complexity if it's your first type, plus it will be harder to get experience on type as most of the UK Bus operators are pretty hard to get into at the moment.
RL
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Hi Tailscrape,
can't quite figure if your reply was aimed directly at me, or as a group. Seems the debate has been put to rest, so I will be brief. Having came through the CTC scheme in 96, I suppose I paid for my rating, and in my mind joined an excellent company in Monarch. The 757 rating led to a job on 744 then 777 all in my mind with good companies So lets just disagree politely on this one, rgds.
can't quite figure if your reply was aimed directly at me, or as a group. Seems the debate has been put to rest, so I will be brief. Having came through the CTC scheme in 96, I suppose I paid for my rating, and in my mind joined an excellent company in Monarch. The 757 rating led to a job on 744 then 777 all in my mind with good companies So lets just disagree politely on this one, rgds.
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Surely, getting a Shed rating, with a job on the back of it, along with several hundred hours thereafter of twin turbine experience, (and getting paid for it,)must count for more than sitting on your backside for a further year, firing off CVs, after gaining your 180 hrs in college.
Surely, you will become more hireable to an operator, with hands-on manual experience on the likes of the Shed?
Surely, you will become more hireable to an operator, with hands-on manual experience on the likes of the Shed?
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CTC bad for the industry
Tailscrape
The CTC scheme was the start of self funded ratings in the industry. The fact that you got your start that way makes no difference to it! You seem to be a fellow who does speak some sense at times, but on this your judgement is clouded by virtue of your own inclusion.
To then go on and say your training through CTC was exclusive is just plain snobery.
CTC started the paying for ratings genre, and now their new schemes are moving onto full zero to hero training.
The CTC scheme was the start of self funded ratings in the industry. The fact that you got your start that way makes no difference to it! You seem to be a fellow who does speak some sense at times, but on this your judgement is clouded by virtue of your own inclusion.
To then go on and say your training through CTC was exclusive is just plain snobery.
CTC started the paying for ratings genre, and now their new schemes are moving onto full zero to hero training.
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meeb
My understanding of my CTC course (and I can speak positively on this as I was there....
), was that it was NOT a self sponsored rating.
I paid £200 to sit the selection, and that is it. I did not pay another penny. I think I may have been in a small band of people who had that fortune, as that is how CTC did it then.
I know of others who paid £6000 and had it paid back etc, but I wasn't one of them.
As for them starting it? No, I don't think so. I seem to recall BRITISH MIDLAND letting guys pay for ratings before then. However, as ever I could be wrong.
Anyway. I agree. Self sponsored ratings are possibly here to stay.....but only because too many desperadoes are willing to pay the money.
My understanding of my CTC course (and I can speak positively on this as I was there....
), was that it was NOT a self sponsored rating.I paid £200 to sit the selection, and that is it. I did not pay another penny. I think I may have been in a small band of people who had that fortune, as that is how CTC did it then.
I know of others who paid £6000 and had it paid back etc, but I wasn't one of them.
As for them starting it? No, I don't think so. I seem to recall BRITISH MIDLAND letting guys pay for ratings before then. However, as ever I could be wrong.
Anyway. I agree. Self sponsored ratings are possibly here to stay.....but only because too many desperadoes are willing to pay the money.
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Bad choice of words Tailscrape, fully concur, absolute snobbery. Regarding the other posting, CTC was not the start of self funded ratings in the UK, and how can the scheme be bad for the aviation market !.