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BAC Express recruiting

Old 28th Jun 2003, 01:04
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Cool BAC Express recruiting

FYI It appears that BAC Exp. are actively recruiting type rated F27 and SD360 pilots as of today.
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Old 28th Jun 2003, 04:10
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But will they take anyone's type rating or are they still holding out for the old "it's got to be done with us or we won't recognise it" scam?. Personally there's NO WAY I'd pay nearly £12K to get rated on a clapped out old freighter that's at the end of it's useful life. Especially when the royal mail goes palletised soon. Good luck to anyone who's mug enough to fall for it though!
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Old 28th Jun 2003, 07:17
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I dont know if BAC actually have the present contracts to justify the posts advertised, but they almost certainly will in the near future.
I am not qualified to comment on the ethics of individual companies training and recruitment processes, but I do know that the recent Royal Mail decision to cease using trains to transport the post will result in a significant increase in the amount of mail carried by air.
Magoo says that they will be using palletised operations (on bigger aircraft), and this is the case for some of the mail, but what he/she forgets is that the mail which previously went by train and is not cost effective (or will not meet RMs obligation to deliver on time) to take by road or by palletised service will have to go by the smaller carriers from the regional airports as it does now - this where BAC and their competitors come in.
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Old 29th Jun 2003, 02:52
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If BAC were offering that elusive first commercial job to a wannabe then I'd say go for it. They really are total $h!t but hey, it would be your first break. However, as they are looking for type rated people I think that you will find that these low lifes will try to flog you an over priced type rating on some old heap of junk that hardly anyone else operates unless you look very hard in deepest, darkest Burundi et al!

The market is starting to pick up, there will be recruitment on a reasonable scale come autumn time so leave BAC well alone.
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 00:45
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I think you will find that most of the small regional stuff is going to be delivered by road not air.
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 18:48
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Ouch! someone had an unsuccessful time with BAC.

Long live the Shed.

Great first commercial aircraft.

Great company.

Who else plays by the rules,has increased pay, turned a profit, made no redundancies, expanded, trained and promoted, since 9/11?
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 22:39
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Suppose that makes up for the [email protected] before 9/11 then ??!!
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 03:25
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OK Potter and Air Mail

Youíve 200+ hours, no type rating, are either unemployed, or are working as a baggage handler/ White Van Man, or behind the counter at McDonalds, after spending ££££££ on your training.

Your options

a) You can wait another 6-12 months, earning +/-£10,000 p.a. Or

b) You grab the opportunity, (if you can afford to put yourself even deeper in debt),) spend £10-11,000 for the Shed type rating, and get a job.


After 1 year

a) Youíre still probably looking, youíve earned another £10,000, and youíve still got 200+ hours, (unless you pay +/- £100p.hr. for flying experience), and youíre still chasing that shiny737 job, with lottery chances of getting it. Or

b) Youíve been employed for the year, flying commercially, at a salary of a minimum £20,000. After initial training costs, your net salary will be a bit less than if you had stayed on the ground. But, now youíre in a flying environment, with 600-900 hours under your belt. Youíve met people who know people in other airlines, all of which helps your way on to the next, better (?) position.

And, despite your derogatory remarks, Potter, regarding BAC Express and the Shed, valuable basic hours and flying experience will have been logged on a hands-on turbine airplane, as opposed to sitting waiting endlessly for that magic envelope to fly through your door with the offer of a shiny jet job.

Iím not suggesting going after a type rating willy-nilly. But the BAC Type Rating course has usually lead to a job in the past. At present, it's down to supply and demand. Presently, it's the employers calling the shots.

You both seem to have a down on flying Sheds with BAC- why? Are you writing from personal experience, or just spreading unsubstantiated scurrilous comments?

Muppet has just confirmed the above sentiments- he/ she seems to enjoy, or having enjoyed flying the Shed.
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 06:28
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Yep ... sounds rosy doesn't it ... and I must confess I have seriously contemplated it for some time now ...

But what I keep coming back to is the fact that £11,000 for a SHED rating just grates me! Man if you were to spend that money in the USA / down under / most of the rest of the civilised world, you could get a 737NG rating with all the trimmings, throw the mother of all parties to celebrate and still have enough change to buy a good used car

The other big problem I can see with it that's holding me back is, that if you go and buy the rating you end up basically limiting yourself to one operator which is BAC Express (because I understand that Loganair have got rid of theirs now, and Emerald is the same parent company anyway).

If the purely hypothetical were to happen and the company was to go bust just as you completed type training, or you p!ssed them off by indavertently hitting on the chief pilot's wife in the pub one night or something, then thats it, you are totally screwed and you have a rating that nobody else wants.

If there were, say, 10 operators of the S330/360 out there and the rumour mill said that 3 or 4 of them were recruiting, then you'd probably feel a lot more comfortable with it.
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 06:38
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There is one option that you didn't mention,

c. you pay 10K+ for a type rating and don't get a job.

As I understand it there are no guarantees with these things. You have 10k+ extra debt to service from your 'fill in' job.

Not to mention keeping this 'pay for a type rating' trend going.
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 06:42
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Luke,
BAC Express and Emerald are 2 separate companies. Streamline doesn't exist any more ie as you know, been merged with Emerald.


Emerald aren't running any more TRTO's untill the hold pool has been emptied. I think it's currently at 10 or so.
Emerald/Streamline are still losing captains to other airlines at the moment. I daresay, they'll start to lose FO's very soon too.
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 15:45
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Angry

Mr Magoo,

You sound like the only thing good enough for you is a big shinny automated aircraft !!!! Maybe too scared to fly a hands on pilot aircraft like the "shed". I flew it and found it a fantastic start to commercial flying.

To anyone else dont ever miss the oppertunity to fly a clockwork aircraft it is great fun and a great start... Althogh i dont really want to do it now
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 19:35
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Thanks for that Tosh.

Job scene with the rating looks quite good at the moment.

Emerald/Streamline are always after crew for the SD330/60 and at the moment so are BAC. If you want it from the horses mouth give Peter Norton a ring at BAC.

Everyone from past TRTOs got jobs.

Yes it is a pain paying for the rating but once you have passed the LST and on the payrole every thing else is paid for; medicals, IR renewals, fire and smoke, security, first aid, CRM, annual refreshers, DG, line training, LHS, travel, hotels and expences. And you get to fly for free:- sounds too good to be true.

When Gill went bust, all the guys who had shed rating had no problems getting jobs. Of course as the market has improved many have now gone back to the ATR or F100, which in turn is generating vacancies again on the shed.

And when BA kick you out on the street at 55, and you have no where to go, yes you've guessed it fall back on the shed.
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 23:37
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Almost related, but how much real flying time do you get on a shed rating seeing as a 737 rating costs only about £5k - £6k more.

cheers

MJR
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Old 2nd Jul 2003, 01:45
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MJR,

What guarantees of a job after you get the737 rating? Which of the TRTOs are you referring to?

I'm not knocking your comments, just interested. With the Shed TR and BAC, they give you a fair idea of your chances before they put potentials through the Type Rating Course.

And, I think, Muppet's got it right.
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Old 2nd Jul 2003, 16:55
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I wasn't really commenting on the likelyhood of getting a job after a type rating. I was really questionong why the divide between a shed rating £11k ish and 737-300 rating is £15k - 18k depending on whether you do it with GECAT, Ryan or Astraeus. As I understand a 737 rating normally includes 1 hour of circuit flying, I was wondering whether the relatively high cost for a shed rating included more real flying.

cheers


MJR
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Old 2nd Jul 2003, 17:07
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It makes all the difference if there's a reasonably sure likelyhood of a job afterwards, no matter be it BAC, Ryanair, or whoever. To go into another £xyz of debt without careful homework is not on.


However, as I've mentioned, BAC give a fair assessment of your chances before you start. Their TR Course includes about 9 hours total flying time.
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Old 2nd Jul 2003, 20:28
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If I had the money and was so inclined, I would get an ATR rating down in exeter. They cost £13500+VAT but include the MCC course and from what I understand a large percentage of those doing the course are going straight into jobs. You would want to find out exactly how many and what your chances are before committing though.

By the way I am not knocking the shed, I would love to fly one. They are bloody ugly though, and the cockpit is cramped as hell.

cheers,

TSP
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 05:45
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Talking

Thought mainline BA had told City Express to cut costs by £20million or else!! Sounds risky spending £10K on a type rating and then get made redundant at the end of the year if it goes tits up.
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 07:08
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timjimreed,

Try not to confuse BA City Express with BAC Express. Two totally different outfits with two totally different fleets/modus operandi.

Would concur with muppet by the way. Always found the shed a thing of beauty, plenty of space on the flight deck, great to fly and looks pretty large after a PA34.

Toodle pip
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