Are Easy and TC the only hope?
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Are Easy and TC the only hope?
I apologise if the topic title sounds a little pathetic, but it would be nice to get some views.
I've been thinking about the sponsorships available with Easy and TC. I'll be graduating soon, and will give the sponsorship a shot, although the odds are of course against all of us, as individuals - no matter how much we'd love a guaranteed job with either carrier. Of course, if you don't play, you'll never win etc. etc...
I'll get to the point; as far as I understand it (and please correct me if I'm mistaken) Easyjet have ordered a large number of Airbus aircraft to enable future growth; pilots will be needed, and a portion of that requirement will be satisfied by Cadet entrants, through the sponsorship scheme.
I'm not as clear what the reason for employing cadets at TC is - I don't recall a recent order for a large number of aircraft, so perhaps they are short, or need to refill places left vacant by pilots moving on to other airlines (or, ahem, retiring..?.
)
Are any other airlines out there likely to offer such schemes in the next 12-18 months?, or will airlines move towards recruiting DEPs, and DEPs alone? (seems cheaper and easier to recruit a DEP to me, but maybe I'm wrong).
The situation, in the near to middle-term future (for those of us eligible for such a sponsorship) appears to me to be either applying for the one sponsorship going, or after much thought & deliberation, taking an ATPL course at relevant FTO, with no guarantee of a job whatsoever - if I didn't want this job so badly, I'd think it insane......
Is this a reasonable understanding? Is it impossible to tell? What are the next 2-3 years likely to look like, barring war or terrorist acts? Do you have a crystal ball?
Apologise for the long-winded and rambling post, I'm just in the process of reviewing my options for the next few months (or years...)
Cheers
I've been thinking about the sponsorships available with Easy and TC. I'll be graduating soon, and will give the sponsorship a shot, although the odds are of course against all of us, as individuals - no matter how much we'd love a guaranteed job with either carrier. Of course, if you don't play, you'll never win etc. etc...
I'll get to the point; as far as I understand it (and please correct me if I'm mistaken) Easyjet have ordered a large number of Airbus aircraft to enable future growth; pilots will be needed, and a portion of that requirement will be satisfied by Cadet entrants, through the sponsorship scheme.
I'm not as clear what the reason for employing cadets at TC is - I don't recall a recent order for a large number of aircraft, so perhaps they are short, or need to refill places left vacant by pilots moving on to other airlines (or, ahem, retiring..?.
)Are any other airlines out there likely to offer such schemes in the next 12-18 months?, or will airlines move towards recruiting DEPs, and DEPs alone? (seems cheaper and easier to recruit a DEP to me, but maybe I'm wrong).
The situation, in the near to middle-term future (for those of us eligible for such a sponsorship) appears to me to be either applying for the one sponsorship going, or after much thought & deliberation, taking an ATPL course at relevant FTO, with no guarantee of a job whatsoever - if I didn't want this job so badly, I'd think it insane......
Is this a reasonable understanding? Is it impossible to tell? What are the next 2-3 years likely to look like, barring war or terrorist acts? Do you have a crystal ball?
Apologise for the long-winded and rambling post, I'm just in the process of reviewing my options for the next few months (or years...)
Cheers
Its fairly clear that the odds of graduating and getting into an airline FO position within 6 months are now very long indeed.
They will shorten over the coming years and in five years time the odds will be back at historically 'good' levels.
All you have to decide is how much pain you can handle/how lucky you feel.
At one end of the scale you'd start training now. At the other you'd delay until 2008.
The problem is its a one time gamble and you'll never know if doing something else would have been better. 90% of all commercial pilots had to face a similar gamble at sometime in their career. Usually at the start but sometimes well into middle age.
Its all part of the rich tapestry of the profession.
Good luck,
WWW
They will shorten over the coming years and in five years time the odds will be back at historically 'good' levels.
All you have to decide is how much pain you can handle/how lucky you feel.
At one end of the scale you'd start training now. At the other you'd delay until 2008.
The problem is its a one time gamble and you'll never know if doing something else would have been better. 90% of all commercial pilots had to face a similar gamble at sometime in their career. Usually at the start but sometimes well into middle age.
Its all part of the rich tapestry of the profession.
Good luck,
WWW
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Thanks for the info, WWW.
One more thought: would it theoretically be possible to undertake an ATPL course, and then pay to take a type-rating course at a Ryanair-approved FTO (subject to your passing the sim assessment/tests, and having applied and been accepted by the airline)?
I don't have that kind of money, but it would be interesting to know; or does one need a large number of hours on top of fATPL to apply for a type-rating? Other than the sponsorship, and judging by the present shape of things, I wouldn't be prepared to make any financial gambles of the ATPL kind for a few years.....I guess age is on my side right now, but it still feels very frustrating.
One more thought: would it theoretically be possible to undertake an ATPL course, and then pay to take a type-rating course at a Ryanair-approved FTO (subject to your passing the sim assessment/tests, and having applied and been accepted by the airline)?
I don't have that kind of money, but it would be interesting to know; or does one need a large number of hours on top of fATPL to apply for a type-rating? Other than the sponsorship, and judging by the present shape of things, I wouldn't be prepared to make any financial gambles of the ATPL kind for a few years.....I guess age is on my side right now, but it still feels very frustrating.
Well unless you are able to pay for your CPL IR and ATPL exams (£50k) and then a further £20k for the Ryanair type rating then its not really worth concerning yourself too much about Michael O Learys recruitment plans. By the time you finish training they may well have changed anyway.
WWW
WWW
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No TC arent under crewed at the mo, finally just about on the line.
i) They need younger pilots as across the spectrum have a glut of pilots mid 40's.
ii) Are betting they will need some pilots in a year from now
iii) Will get these ctc-mcP cadets dirt cheap.
i) They need younger pilots as across the spectrum have a glut of pilots mid 40's.
ii) Are betting they will need some pilots in a year from now
iii) Will get these ctc-mcP cadets dirt cheap.
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expedite_climb
How young!
I'll be 19 when I finish my ATPL, this time next year (hopfully!). I am thinking about going to CTC to try and get into the Airline qualification course, but I really would like to get direct entry into an airline as a second officer. Just think of the potential money they can make out of a 19 year old ATPL!
I sure hope I am 'good material' for an airline. At the end of the day in that interview, we're all mutually exclusive, IE we've all got the tickets but I guess it's just your personality, maturity and how you fit into place? I'd love to work as a charter pilot for say Brits, JMC, Air2k (4am, FL370 over Bay of Biscay....yummy 
).
Erh, anyway, off topic.
A bird on a tree told me that Britannia might be offering sponsorship again this year, only a few mind, like last year. Apart from easyJ and TMC (those being with CTC), I think the only other hope that sponsorship seeking pilots have is the odd offer in the back of flight international. You sometimes get Air Atlantic, and Aero's etc offering the odd placement in return for some freelance work I think.
Good luck
cheers
OBK
How young!
I'll be 19 when I finish my ATPL, this time next year (hopfully!). I am thinking about going to CTC to try and get into the Airline qualification course, but I really would like to get direct entry into an airline as a second officer. Just think of the potential money they can make out of a 19 year old ATPL!
I sure hope I am 'good material' for an airline. At the end of the day in that interview, we're all mutually exclusive, IE we've all got the tickets but I guess it's just your personality, maturity and how you fit into place? I'd love to work as a charter pilot for say Brits, JMC, Air2k (4am, FL370 over Bay of Biscay....yummy ).Erh, anyway, off topic.
A bird on a tree told me that Britannia might be offering sponsorship again this year, only a few mind, like last year. Apart from easyJ and TMC (those being with CTC), I think the only other hope that sponsorship seeking pilots have is the odd offer in the back of flight international. You sometimes get Air Atlantic, and Aero's etc offering the odd placement in return for some freelance work I think.
Good luck
cheers
OBK
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hiya,
it seems that no-one has mentioned joining the Royal Air Force (if you live in england) or the USAF in America...
you can become a pilot in the RAF, gain hour a lot quicker than you would with a commerical airline then progress onto a charter or scheduled airline.
im planning on joining the RAF when i leave sixth form, but it depends if i love the RAF as to whether i leave or not for an airline.
You may want to drop into your local RAF careers office if you are interested. I promise you will have more luck in the RAF than with CTC McAlpine if you can handle the discipline! (so ive heard )
Good luck in whatever you do..
WhiteDevil
it seems that no-one has mentioned joining the Royal Air Force (if you live in england) or the USAF in America...
you can become a pilot in the RAF, gain hour a lot quicker than you would with a commerical airline then progress onto a charter or scheduled airline.
im planning on joining the RAF when i leave sixth form, but it depends if i love the RAF as to whether i leave or not for an airline.
You may want to drop into your local RAF careers office if you are interested. I promise you will have more luck in the RAF than with CTC McAlpine if you can handle the discipline! (so ive heard
)Good luck in whatever you do..
WhiteDevil
WhiteDevil - your ignorance is embarassing.
WWW
WWW
Well:
a) its true
b) I was off to the pub on a sunny evening
c) I'm back now
So yes its harsh but in a hurry I hate it when people think the ROYAL AIR FORCE is a stepping stone to an airline career. The fact that it is a hundred times harder to be considered worthy of a Commission and Wings than a simple airline cadetship seems not to enter the uneducated minds of some youths on this forum.
WhiteDevils post makes my blood boil on so many levels I found/find it hard to retort properly.
Harsh but fair.
WWW
a) its true
b) I was off to the pub on a sunny evening
c) I'm back now
So yes its harsh but in a hurry I hate it when people think the ROYAL AIR FORCE is a stepping stone to an airline career. The fact that it is a hundred times harder to be considered worthy of a Commission and Wings than a simple airline cadetship seems not to enter the uneducated minds of some youths on this forum.
WhiteDevils post makes my blood boil on so many levels I found/find it hard to retort properly.
Harsh but fair.
WWW
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Yes there are other jobs out there, it's just that not everybody hears about them. There is no need for anyone to advertise for low hour pilots, so positions are usually filled, I guess, as soon as they appear, by someone from a long list.
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Not a million miles off-topic, but I read with some alarm reports that easyjet had lost £45 million for past 6 months - I thought they were generally doing quite well; does this have something to do with the recent go acquisition or is there a more fundamental problem with the particular low-cost model easyjet subscribes to? I seem to remember go made some modest profits flying to the main airports. Are easy feeling the squeeze from both sides (Ryan and BA?) Wouldn't like to seem them suffer anymore, and it has nothing to do with applying for their sponsorship....
I shouldn't worry too much about easyJet. A 6 month result showing a loss over the winter is not exactly startling news. Mix in unhedged fuel and integration costs. As long as they announce >£48m profits in November then it will actually be a profitable airline, experiencing 30% annual growth which should be good news for the sponsorships.
WWW
WWW
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The foolishness of WhiteDevil's remarks about being eligible to join the RAF "if you live in England" almost beggars belief. The only saving grace is that he is obviously a young man with a lot to learn about life. WWW is quite rightly affronted at such sentements.
To join the RAF you must be British and not English! WhiteDevil's comments would cause great offence to the many families of Irish, Welsh, Scottish and of course English servicemen and women who have lost both life and limb in the service of Britain. It is maybe difficult for someone in England to understand how offensive it is to interchange England/Britain like this, but understand it you must. Despite all the publicity to the contrary, there are in fact many, many people from Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland who are proud to be British and to serve their country. They are not in any way anti-English but wish the contribution of their particular part of the United Kingdom to be recognised for what it is.
Also, as an ex-RAF bloke, I cannot help but feel very concerned that a young lad such as WhiteDevil (or indeed anyone else similarly misled) would consider RAF flying as an easy means to the airlines. The best advice I can offer anyone who has such misapprehensions is to go somewhere else! The standards in the Services are very high, and anyone without a fair bit of talent and a huge amount of perserverence is unlikely to cut it. When I joined the RAF, at a very early stage it was made clear to me that if you were not willing to fight and die on behalf of the United Kingdom then you were in the wrong job. By coincidence, nearly every single person from my course ended up flying in the Gulf War (the first one!), and I can assure you that going through training no one dreamt that it would be like that. The bottom line is that you are there to do the bidding of your government and that may involve you being in serious harm's way. if you are fortunate enough to pick up a good job with the airlines afterwards then best of luck to you, but that is not what you are there for. You will always look back on your RAF flying as the most demanding and exciting you ever did.
I sound like some old codger going on like this, but I want everyone starting out in aviation to know that the RAF, Navy or Army are not easy options. They have some amazingly high selection criteria and produce some really sharp operators. If you are up to it and believe enough in your country to die for it then go for it. Otherwise do something else.
To join the RAF you must be British and not English! WhiteDevil's comments would cause great offence to the many families of Irish, Welsh, Scottish and of course English servicemen and women who have lost both life and limb in the service of Britain. It is maybe difficult for someone in England to understand how offensive it is to interchange England/Britain like this, but understand it you must. Despite all the publicity to the contrary, there are in fact many, many people from Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland who are proud to be British and to serve their country. They are not in any way anti-English but wish the contribution of their particular part of the United Kingdom to be recognised for what it is.
Also, as an ex-RAF bloke, I cannot help but feel very concerned that a young lad such as WhiteDevil (or indeed anyone else similarly misled) would consider RAF flying as an easy means to the airlines. The best advice I can offer anyone who has such misapprehensions is to go somewhere else! The standards in the Services are very high, and anyone without a fair bit of talent and a huge amount of perserverence is unlikely to cut it. When I joined the RAF, at a very early stage it was made clear to me that if you were not willing to fight and die on behalf of the United Kingdom then you were in the wrong job. By coincidence, nearly every single person from my course ended up flying in the Gulf War (the first one!), and I can assure you that going through training no one dreamt that it would be like that. The bottom line is that you are there to do the bidding of your government and that may involve you being in serious harm's way. if you are fortunate enough to pick up a good job with the airlines afterwards then best of luck to you, but that is not what you are there for. You will always look back on your RAF flying as the most demanding and exciting you ever did.
I sound like some old codger going on like this, but I want everyone starting out in aviation to know that the RAF, Navy or Army are not easy options. They have some amazingly high selection criteria and produce some really sharp operators. If you are up to it and believe enough in your country to die for it then go for it. Otherwise do something else.
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Jeez, Norm, when you put it like that, I wonder how I ever got in! (No further comments required on that topic....).
Don't give WhiteDevil too hard a time. He's obviously a very young schoolboy whose enthusiasm is way in advance of his knowlege. As cynical as we all tend to be these days, we might be surprised to look back and remember that we were once like that! I would rather see his enthusiasm encouraged and educated than see his current ignorance disparaged.
However, young WhiteDevil, you might want to consider reading the recruiting information given out by the RAF in some detail, and talk to a few of us who've been down the route you're hoping for, before you attempt to advise others!
Scroggs
Don't give WhiteDevil too hard a time. He's obviously a very young schoolboy whose enthusiasm is way in advance of his knowlege. As cynical as we all tend to be these days, we might be surprised to look back and remember that we were once like that! I would rather see his enthusiasm encouraged and educated than see his current ignorance disparaged.
However, young WhiteDevil, you might want to consider reading the recruiting information given out by the RAF in some detail, and talk to a few of us who've been down the route you're hoping for, before you attempt to advise others!
Scroggs
