31 yrs old: Should I bother?
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31 yrs old: Should I bother?
I am 31 and just got made redundant from my (well paid) desk job. I have >300hrs (mostly complex single), IMC/night rating, great (and pregnant) wife, physics degree, nice house with no mortgage, and enough cash in the bank. So far I have been lucky in life, BUT I am not happy: I really want to become an airline pilot.
But all I read on Pprune is that even if I paid £50k+ to get CPL/IR/fATPL rated over the coming year, the chances of me getting a decent job within a couple of years are remote - unless I am randomly lucky.
Should I bother with this flying career dream? Is it really worth the initial year of training, followed by the anxiety? Or should I try to return to a relatively dull desk job, and continue to fly at weekends? The prospect of 2-3 years (or more) out of work scares me.
Thoughts appreciated.....
But all I read on Pprune is that even if I paid £50k+ to get CPL/IR/fATPL rated over the coming year, the chances of me getting a decent job within a couple of years are remote - unless I am randomly lucky.
Should I bother with this flying career dream? Is it really worth the initial year of training, followed by the anxiety? Or should I try to return to a relatively dull desk job, and continue to fly at weekends? The prospect of 2-3 years (or more) out of work scares me.
Thoughts appreciated.....
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Arrowhead,
This question in one form or another has been asked forty six million times in the last few years. If you use the search facility you can check the previous responses.
The only person who can really answer this question is yourself because at the end of the day we are all different, with different values, different needs in terms of professional fulfilment and different personal circumstances.
Sorry I cant be more positive but no doubt this thread would spawn an even amount of back slapping " go on do it" and "no no matey think twice" type responses which wouldnt really be any help.
cheers
MJR
This question in one form or another has been asked forty six million times in the last few years. If you use the search facility you can check the previous responses.
The only person who can really answer this question is yourself because at the end of the day we are all different, with different values, different needs in terms of professional fulfilment and different personal circumstances.
Sorry I cant be more positive but no doubt this thread would spawn an even amount of back slapping " go on do it" and "no no matey think twice" type responses which wouldnt really be any help.
cheers
MJR
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Arrowhead
Arrowhead,
Do a search onmy posts - my situation is similar to yours but I'm just turned 34. I took severance from my dull desk job, have a wife who is 40 and really wants to get pregnant now and I've decided to go for it having spent the past 2 years deliberating.
Like you I could have stayed where I was and had it cushy but boring - that didn't seem to be a good way to live!
Hope this helps,
Desk-pilot
Do a search onmy posts - my situation is similar to yours but I'm just turned 34. I took severance from my dull desk job, have a wife who is 40 and really wants to get pregnant now and I've decided to go for it having spent the past 2 years deliberating.
Like you I could have stayed where I was and had it cushy but boring - that didn't seem to be a good way to live!
Hope this helps,
Desk-pilot
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Arrowhead,
Take the rose coloured glasses off and have a long hard look at the industry as it is right now. More and more operators are looking at you to buy the type rating. These days you do work a lot more for the money. Hours away from home are longer, time spent at work is longer too.
You say "airline pilot". What if an airline doesn't hire you? Have you considered flight instructing (more money to outlay)? Night freight?
You have a family on the way. Consider the impact of this career change on them. The hours aren't family friendly. It's hard enough trying to sort out a social life let alone keep a partner happy.
Money? Yeah, if you get a jet job the money is civilised but not that great initially for the outlay. Now, if you get a turboprop job then the money is a lot less. Before you can get command you'll need the ATPL. That's about 2-3 years worth of flying. Can you afford to live on 18K a year?
Sure it does sound doom and gloom. However, you need to know what it really is like before you commit a huge amount of money into it. Many start, few finish. Even fewer make a living out of it.
Flying schools will tell you how good it is.. They'll say that, they want your business.
Take the rose coloured glasses off and have a long hard look at the industry as it is right now. More and more operators are looking at you to buy the type rating. These days you do work a lot more for the money. Hours away from home are longer, time spent at work is longer too.
You say "airline pilot". What if an airline doesn't hire you? Have you considered flight instructing (more money to outlay)? Night freight?
You have a family on the way. Consider the impact of this career change on them. The hours aren't family friendly. It's hard enough trying to sort out a social life let alone keep a partner happy.
Money? Yeah, if you get a jet job the money is civilised but not that great initially for the outlay. Now, if you get a turboprop job then the money is a lot less. Before you can get command you'll need the ATPL. That's about 2-3 years worth of flying. Can you afford to live on 18K a year?
Sure it does sound doom and gloom. However, you need to know what it really is like before you commit a huge amount of money into it. Many start, few finish. Even fewer make a living out of it.
Flying schools will tell you how good it is.. They'll say that, they want your business.
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The lifestyle issues are for you to decide but as far as your age goes, I wouldn't be too worried if you cracked on with things.
For example, CTC in Southampton is one of the most well thought of institutions in UK aviation and they accept people into their ATP scheme up to age 34. I don't know how many applicants at that age range are successfull but the fact that they are allowed to apply must mean they are still considered elligible by the airlines CTC provides for - Easy, JMC, Monarch to name a few..
I'm a similar age to you, my main concern is further down the line with airlines like Cathay and Emirates who both put the criteria "experience commensurate with age" in their job adverts. But this maybe something that dissappears when the market goes round the cycle again.
For example, CTC in Southampton is one of the most well thought of institutions in UK aviation and they accept people into their ATP scheme up to age 34. I don't know how many applicants at that age range are successfull but the fact that they are allowed to apply must mean they are still considered elligible by the airlines CTC provides for - Easy, JMC, Monarch to name a few..
I'm a similar age to you, my main concern is further down the line with airlines like Cathay and Emirates who both put the criteria "experience commensurate with age" in their job adverts. But this maybe something that dissappears when the market goes round the cycle again.
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Tread carefully.
All of the above comments are valid.
It will cost you far more than you expect.
Really, if you're single it would help. The stress your family and partner will be subjected to is immense, dont under estimate it.
No debts, cash in the bank prospects decent working conditions, home at night (not some ***ty digs or cheap hotel). Thats a good life.
Sleep on it.
Ta Ta
All of the above comments are valid.
It will cost you far more than you expect.
Really, if you're single it would help. The stress your family and partner will be subjected to is immense, dont under estimate it.
No debts, cash in the bank prospects decent working conditions, home at night (not some ***ty digs or cheap hotel). Thats a good life.
Sleep on it.
Ta Ta
On limited info and with caveats I would say "No, don't do it."
The odds upon getting a decent airline job after training are now in the 1000:1 odds. These odds are likely to lengthen before they shorten.
With AA laying off 2,500 rated experienced jet drivers there won't be many JAA pilots able to find work outside of the JAA. Cathay, Emirates et al will have 2,500 Americans on file with no notice period.
This will only exacerbate the adverse conditions in the UK where a steady strickle of pilots have been slinking off to lat and longs new for the promise of tax free salaries in the sun with quick commands to new heavy metal.
We could yet see further airline failures in the UK and near continent which would set back your cause yet further. I doubt that there actually is much growth left in the UK market for the next couple of years. Low cost and Full Service airlines offer great value already. Package holidays have never been so cheap. There is not much left in the 'Stimulate Demand' cupboard.
Do not give up your dream forever. By all means quietly start laying the ground for a career change in 5 years time. Attack the CPL module and slowly learn the ATPL syllabus. But only in your spare time.
Good luck,
WWW
The odds upon getting a decent airline job after training are now in the 1000:1 odds. These odds are likely to lengthen before they shorten.
With AA laying off 2,500 rated experienced jet drivers there won't be many JAA pilots able to find work outside of the JAA. Cathay, Emirates et al will have 2,500 Americans on file with no notice period.
This will only exacerbate the adverse conditions in the UK where a steady strickle of pilots have been slinking off to lat and longs new for the promise of tax free salaries in the sun with quick commands to new heavy metal.
We could yet see further airline failures in the UK and near continent which would set back your cause yet further. I doubt that there actually is much growth left in the UK market for the next couple of years. Low cost and Full Service airlines offer great value already. Package holidays have never been so cheap. There is not much left in the 'Stimulate Demand' cupboard.
Do not give up your dream forever. By all means quietly start laying the ground for a career change in 5 years time. Attack the CPL module and slowly learn the ATPL syllabus. But only in your spare time.
Good luck,
WWW
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Maybe an exagerration
www,
You've posted some great info here which so many of us have benefitted from, so I'm loath to disagree but here goes! I don't see how the odds of employment are really 1000 to 1. There has been a terrible slowdown in air travel in the past two years and judging by the information I have to hand it may take another year or three before things return to a truly hiring market - but.
It seems to me there are a few people getting jobs now (judging by the threads saying so on here) which is better than the situation 6 months ago where as far as I could tell nobody was getting a job. CTC/Easyjet/JMC are offering a sort of sponsored scheme for the young guns because presumably they feel they need pilots in around 18 months time.
Ryanair have never really stopped hiring and even they are having to slightly reduce their entry requirements. There will be significant retirements amongst the flag carrier airlines - indeed I believe 2003-2008 are supposed to be peak retirement years and in addition the projected growth in air travel once stability returns to the market is 5% or more a year.
My gut feel is that if the Iraq conflict is settled reasonably quickly and there are no further unforeseen events in aviation then 2004-2005 should see far more opportunity for wannabes. It will be interesting to see if this is espoused at any of Saturday's presentations. I don't think the normal airlines have hired pilots in any numbers for around 2 years although quite how the pool has influenced this I don't know.
I do fear however that there are still too many people training for the number of jobs available and therein lies the problem. I'm not convinced that US lay-offs will have a great effect upon the UK market - obviously a carrier failure here would. I suspect the proportion of pilots flying for Emirates etc is rather low and unlikely to influence the figures much either way. What will make the biggest difference is a stable and growing UK airline industry and that means low cost, package and flag carriers. To achieve this people will have to be not afraid of flying. The huge expansion of regional airports which is happening must be related to anticipated growth in passengers and planes, all of which need pilots to fly them.
My opinions are based upon nothing more than gut feel having spent some years working in aviation on the ground. I'd really appreciate your predictions in response to this because you are rather closer to the business than I am nowadays.
I just really hope I'm right (I'm sure you do too!)
Best regards,
Desk-pilot
You've posted some great info here which so many of us have benefitted from, so I'm loath to disagree but here goes! I don't see how the odds of employment are really 1000 to 1. There has been a terrible slowdown in air travel in the past two years and judging by the information I have to hand it may take another year or three before things return to a truly hiring market - but.
It seems to me there are a few people getting jobs now (judging by the threads saying so on here) which is better than the situation 6 months ago where as far as I could tell nobody was getting a job. CTC/Easyjet/JMC are offering a sort of sponsored scheme for the young guns because presumably they feel they need pilots in around 18 months time.
Ryanair have never really stopped hiring and even they are having to slightly reduce their entry requirements. There will be significant retirements amongst the flag carrier airlines - indeed I believe 2003-2008 are supposed to be peak retirement years and in addition the projected growth in air travel once stability returns to the market is 5% or more a year.
My gut feel is that if the Iraq conflict is settled reasonably quickly and there are no further unforeseen events in aviation then 2004-2005 should see far more opportunity for wannabes. It will be interesting to see if this is espoused at any of Saturday's presentations. I don't think the normal airlines have hired pilots in any numbers for around 2 years although quite how the pool has influenced this I don't know.
I do fear however that there are still too many people training for the number of jobs available and therein lies the problem. I'm not convinced that US lay-offs will have a great effect upon the UK market - obviously a carrier failure here would. I suspect the proportion of pilots flying for Emirates etc is rather low and unlikely to influence the figures much either way. What will make the biggest difference is a stable and growing UK airline industry and that means low cost, package and flag carriers. To achieve this people will have to be not afraid of flying. The huge expansion of regional airports which is happening must be related to anticipated growth in passengers and planes, all of which need pilots to fly them.
My opinions are based upon nothing more than gut feel having spent some years working in aviation on the ground. I'd really appreciate your predictions in response to this because you are rather closer to the business than I am nowadays.
I just really hope I'm right (I'm sure you do too!)
Best regards,
Desk-pilot
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Quite simply what do you want out of life? Its up to you. You could do the training and be very lucky and get a job at the end of it (ideal world) or do the training and wait for ever for that job.(not so ideal) People ARE still getting jobs even in these "uncertain" times-others are losing them. My point is this, do it and live with the consequences or don't and wonder what would have happened. Most importantly don't risk everything (family, house etc) nothing is worth that. You say you have the cash, get your wifes backing and the rest is up to you.
Good luck
Good luck
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Well don't say you weren't thoroughly warned.
If you take the plunge good luck and look after your wife because you're taking her and her ambition with you.
She'll be wanting kids in the near future, and a fAPTL?
Your doing better than your letting on.
My reconning its got to be near £100K all in, by the time to get back into your career if you can. (Remember mortgage, car, food, little treats and trips.)
I couldnt, my CV says graduate pilot of 3 years. It doesnt open the same doors anymore.
Thats the reality for many.
End of Advice
If you take the plunge good luck and look after your wife because you're taking her and her ambition with you.
She'll be wanting kids in the near future, and a fAPTL?
Your doing better than your letting on.
My reconning its got to be near £100K all in, by the time to get back into your career if you can. (Remember mortgage, car, food, little treats and trips.)
I couldnt, my CV says graduate pilot of 3 years. It doesnt open the same doors anymore.
Thats the reality for many.
End of Advice
