Ever thought of giving up????
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Ever thought of giving up????
Just wondering.Im 2 years waiting for flyingjob.I know it is not long comared to some of you but mabye Im just down in the dumps a bit but , dare I say it , the thought of giving up altogether has crossed my mind.
Im sure everyone considers this at some point or another but has anyone actually done it , and if so , how do you feel about your decision.
Im sure everyone considers this at some point or another but has anyone actually done it , and if so , how do you feel about your decision.
I say there boy
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Yes, I have thought of it, but I'm not going to do it. The alternative of a life sat in an office in front of a computer does not bear thinking about.
Chin up and stick at it!
Cheers!
foggy.
Chin up and stick at it!
Cheers!
foggy.
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Cheer up
You just have to tnink why you wanted to do this in the first place. It is very easy to get down and want to give up sometimes and I know many many people who have felt just the same as yourself.
But if you did give up and took up another job, would you look back oneday and regret never giving it more of a go.
There is more than just flying a jet in the employment world of a pilot, and there is some fantastic flying to be had if you just keep plodding away and don't give up. I in the past have thaught is it all worth the hassle , but now am really enjoying myself instructing. Of course I want to go to the airlines one day but I am enjoying the ride there while doing so.
I know I would not be true to myself or my family if I gave up and did another job just because it was the easy way out and hated it.
As they say "winners never quit, and quitters never win"
You just have to tnink why you wanted to do this in the first place. It is very easy to get down and want to give up sometimes and I know many many people who have felt just the same as yourself.
But if you did give up and took up another job, would you look back oneday and regret never giving it more of a go.
There is more than just flying a jet in the employment world of a pilot, and there is some fantastic flying to be had if you just keep plodding away and don't give up. I in the past have thaught is it all worth the hassle , but now am really enjoying myself instructing. Of course I want to go to the airlines one day but I am enjoying the ride there while doing so.
I know I would not be true to myself or my family if I gave up and did another job just because it was the easy way out and hated it.
As they say "winners never quit, and quitters never win"
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As the lads said, dont give up if its what you really want!
Food for thought, realist as it maybe, read the last few posts on the thread about Ryanair on this forum!!
Good luck..
Food for thought, realist as it maybe, read the last few posts on the thread about Ryanair on this forum!!
Good luck..
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Heres a good one I got from a wise old friend discussing this thread today......,especially appropriate to wannabees
When things go wrong , as they sometimes will,
When the road your'e trudging seems all up hill,
When the funds are low and the debts are high,
And when you want to smile but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit,
Rest if you must but dont you quit.
Life is queer with its twists and turns,As everyone of us sometimes learns,
And many a failure turns about , when he might have won had he stuck it out.
Dont give up though the pace seems slow,
you may succeed with another blow.
Success is failure turned inside out,
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far;
So stick to the fight when youre hardest hit,
Its when things seem worst that you,
Must Not Quit
When things go wrong , as they sometimes will,
When the road your'e trudging seems all up hill,
When the funds are low and the debts are high,
And when you want to smile but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit,
Rest if you must but dont you quit.
Life is queer with its twists and turns,As everyone of us sometimes learns,
And many a failure turns about , when he might have won had he stuck it out.
Dont give up though the pace seems slow,
you may succeed with another blow.
Success is failure turned inside out,
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far;
So stick to the fight when youre hardest hit,
Its when things seem worst that you,
Must Not Quit
Lots do give up I am afraid. I estimate something like 50% in the bad periods.
The differences between some peoples seemingly accidental falling into a flightdeck and others years of struggle is immense and in itself cruel.
Keep going if you can but do not let the struggle ulimately make you miserable.
Good luck, its very important,
WWW
The differences between some peoples seemingly accidental falling into a flightdeck and others years of struggle is immense and in itself cruel.
Keep going if you can but do not let the struggle ulimately make you miserable.
Good luck, its very important,
WWW
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Of the 12 people that completed my full time PPL/CPL/IR course back in '95 - '96, I believe there's only four of us still flying. One instructing, one on piston twin air charter, one with a turboprop airline and one with Cathay Pacific.
The simple mathematics of the situation says that there's more wannabes than jobs. I know in this country (New Zealand) the figures are something like 10 or 12 CPL holders for every pilot that's actually in paid employment.
You don't have to be better than the other pilots to get the job, you just have to tough it out for the longest. Flying is like a game of russian roulette, whoever's still in the game after 80% of the others have fallen by the wayside is the one who gets the job.
So yeah people do give up ... and it's incredibly hard to keep going in the face of the avalanche of PFO letters sometimes. It's really sad to run into old mates of yours who aren't flying any more.
I have got enough rejection letters now, I have saved them all, and one day when I am a big bad overpaid airline captain and I build my dream house, I am going to wallpaper my office with those rejection letters ... then I'm going to sit back on my leather chair, light a big cigar and LAUGH
The simple mathematics of the situation says that there's more wannabes than jobs. I know in this country (New Zealand) the figures are something like 10 or 12 CPL holders for every pilot that's actually in paid employment.
You don't have to be better than the other pilots to get the job, you just have to tough it out for the longest. Flying is like a game of russian roulette, whoever's still in the game after 80% of the others have fallen by the wayside is the one who gets the job.
So yeah people do give up ... and it's incredibly hard to keep going in the face of the avalanche of PFO letters sometimes. It's really sad to run into old mates of yours who aren't flying any more.
I have got enough rejection letters now, I have saved them all, and one day when I am a big bad overpaid airline captain and I build my dream house, I am going to wallpaper my office with those rejection letters ... then I'm going to sit back on my leather chair, light a big cigar and LAUGH
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Imagine the following case:
27 year old man with no debt
Wants to be a pilot
Very nearly but not quite secured sponsorship and is now too old to apply for sponsorship. Somehow borrows £50k from the bank at 8%pa
By the end of year 2:
Has fATPL, 200 hours and instructors rating.
Total debt £50k
Now 29 years old
By the end of year 4, if lucky found instructing job and stuck with it for 2 years:
Has fATPL, 800 hours and instructors rating
Total debt £58320 since unable to make payments on instructors wage. Now 31 years old.
By the end of year 6, if lucky found Turboprop job and stuck at it for 2 years:
Has ATPL, 2400 hours, type rating on turboprop. Earning £22000 per year. Now 33 years old.
Total debt £54546 if paying debt off at £500 per month.
By the end of year 13, if Very Very lucky found 737 job and stuck at it for 7 years:
Has ATPL, has 8000 hours, type rating on 737. Earned average of say £35000 per year over 7 years and was able to save £800 per month. Now 40 years old
Total debt £970.63
This is myself I am talking about. I am 27, I have applied to sponsorships with BA, Aer Lingus, Air2000, British European and Britannia Airways. I have spent about £400 on 4 measly hours of flying lessons and about £3000 on interviews and class one medicals and transport to interviews etc. I'm now too old for sponsorship and I can not secure a £50k loan due to lack of security. However, even if I could get the finance from the bank, the idea of relying on being EXTREMELY LUCKY in order to get to 40 with nothing to my name but £970 debt strikes me as risky to say the least.
Am I missing something?
27 year old man with no debt
Wants to be a pilot
Very nearly but not quite secured sponsorship and is now too old to apply for sponsorship. Somehow borrows £50k from the bank at 8%pa
By the end of year 2:
Has fATPL, 200 hours and instructors rating.
Total debt £50k
Now 29 years old
By the end of year 4, if lucky found instructing job and stuck with it for 2 years:
Has fATPL, 800 hours and instructors rating
Total debt £58320 since unable to make payments on instructors wage. Now 31 years old.
By the end of year 6, if lucky found Turboprop job and stuck at it for 2 years:
Has ATPL, 2400 hours, type rating on turboprop. Earning £22000 per year. Now 33 years old.
Total debt £54546 if paying debt off at £500 per month.
By the end of year 13, if Very Very lucky found 737 job and stuck at it for 7 years:
Has ATPL, has 8000 hours, type rating on 737. Earned average of say £35000 per year over 7 years and was able to save £800 per month. Now 40 years old
Total debt £970.63
This is myself I am talking about. I am 27, I have applied to sponsorships with BA, Aer Lingus, Air2000, British European and Britannia Airways. I have spent about £400 on 4 measly hours of flying lessons and about £3000 on interviews and class one medicals and transport to interviews etc. I'm now too old for sponsorship and I can not secure a £50k loan due to lack of security. However, even if I could get the finance from the bank, the idea of relying on being EXTREMELY LUCKY in order to get to 40 with nothing to my name but £970 debt strikes me as risky to say the least.
Am I missing something?
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Wow Hoping , I think its you that needs cheering up a lot more than I do!
Like any struggle, somedays are easier to cope with than others.I think what youre missing is, you have outlined a possible 'progression' in your aviation career but it is one of many possibilitis.If it was that straight forward I dont think I would have posted yesterday.
Also if this is really what you thought , you wouldn't have started in the first place.
You could get a job on a jet tomorrow!
But what I was really asking was , the people who did throw in the towel after it all , how are they now and do they regret their decision????????
Like any struggle, somedays are easier to cope with than others.I think what youre missing is, you have outlined a possible 'progression' in your aviation career but it is one of many possibilitis.If it was that straight forward I dont think I would have posted yesterday.
Also if this is really what you thought , you wouldn't have started in the first place.
You could get a job on a jet tomorrow!
But what I was really asking was , the people who did throw in the towel after it all , how are they now and do they regret their decision????????
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I don't know if this is what you'd call 'throwing in the towel' but a couple of years back I gave up flying due to a financial problem & I've not been back since. Now I've spent nowhere near the amount of money that some people have (still at SPL stage) but I did have a medical, all the PPL exams passed, I was solo & doing fairly well. Unfortunately something had to give... 
Do I regret it? Well I regret the fact that I'm not flying at the moment, but I have no regrets about getting my 30 hours, studying for exams & generally enjoying myself. I'll admit that the idea of gaining a job flying jets seems somewhat distant now but I know that I will get back to flying light aircraft & I'll at least get back on the PPL trail.
For what it's worth, I've got the rejection letters from a couple of airlines in the days when I aplied for cadetships - did fairly well with EI one year & it hurt like hell when I didn't get it.
So, my advice to anyone who's chasing that elusive first job is don't quit!! Times change, and there will be something for you out there sooner or later.
Do I regret it? Well I regret the fact that I'm not flying at the moment, but I have no regrets about getting my 30 hours, studying for exams & generally enjoying myself. I'll admit that the idea of gaining a job flying jets seems somewhat distant now but I know that I will get back to flying light aircraft & I'll at least get back on the PPL trail.
For what it's worth, I've got the rejection letters from a couple of airlines in the days when I aplied for cadetships - did fairly well with EI one year & it hurt like hell when I didn't get it.
So, my advice to anyone who's chasing that elusive first job is don't quit!! Times change, and there will be something for you out there sooner or later.
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Just be thankful that you are where you are.
I had a very lucky escape last weekend and it made me grateful for the Class 1 medical I hold, the two feet I take for granted and the fact that I hold a CPL/IR. As I keep saying at the moment, "I'm just glad to be here!"
There are thousands of people out there that would give anything to be in a position like this, don't forget it.
So what if you have to wait a while to get a job, if you want it enough you'll get there eventually.
I had a very lucky escape last weekend and it made me grateful for the Class 1 medical I hold, the two feet I take for granted and the fact that I hold a CPL/IR. As I keep saying at the moment, "I'm just glad to be here!"
There are thousands of people out there that would give anything to be in a position like this, don't forget it.
So what if you have to wait a while to get a job, if you want it enough you'll get there eventually.
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Homerj,
I'm all right actually.
My two career aims have been either
1. To become an airline pilot
or
2. To work at anything as long as it is my own business rather than somebody else’s
so not all my options have disappeared yet I'm glad to say and I don't need cheering up.
The possible career map I outlined was very optimistic actually.
You say that if that was what I really thought I wouldn't have even started. Actually, I have always thought exactly the same and that is why I applied for the sponsorships and got a class one medical etc. However, I always knew that if I didn't secure sponsorship by age 27 that would have to be the end of the road for me for financial reasons.
As for me getting a jet job tomorrow I think it is highly unlikely with only 4 hours in a Cessna 152.
To answer your questions:
I HAVE thrown the towel in,
I'm fine and I am trying to start my own business,
I do have regrets and they are that I have wasted over £3000 on interviews and applications for sponsorship when I could have gone to Florida and got my PPL instead or I could have that £3000 now that it is sorely needed.
ps What stage are you at Homerj, in terms of debt,experience, hours, age etc?
I'm all right actually.
My two career aims have been either
1. To become an airline pilot
or
2. To work at anything as long as it is my own business rather than somebody else’s
so not all my options have disappeared yet I'm glad to say and I don't need cheering up.
The possible career map I outlined was very optimistic actually.
You say that if that was what I really thought I wouldn't have even started. Actually, I have always thought exactly the same and that is why I applied for the sponsorships and got a class one medical etc. However, I always knew that if I didn't secure sponsorship by age 27 that would have to be the end of the road for me for financial reasons.
As for me getting a jet job tomorrow I think it is highly unlikely with only 4 hours in a Cessna 152.
To answer your questions:
I HAVE thrown the towel in,
I'm fine and I am trying to start my own business,
I do have regrets and they are that I have wasted over £3000 on interviews and applications for sponsorship when I could have gone to Florida and got my PPL instead or I could have that £3000 now that it is sorely needed.
ps What stage are you at Homerj, in terms of debt,experience, hours, age etc?
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Hey folks, cheer up.
This time yesterday, I was attending a series of interviews for jobs that I really didn't want to do, but decided I had to because I needed the money.
I'm 32, married, hold a frozen ATPL, live in a town that could only be described as a fancy slum (street names and house numbers making it posh), have an endowment which won't pay my mortgage (even though a BA FO could buy my house in cash with their first year's take home pay), shares which I wanted to use to pay for my training which would not now buy me an FI rating and have accrued debts/lost earnings as a result of my training which must run into 6 figures.
Today, I still have all of the above, but I am as happy as a pig in sh*t because I now have a flying job.
It is only part-time, barely covers my expenses for getting to the job and will only log me single crew, single engine time. But I am still happy. I won't be rich, but I will be current and I will be getting some valuable experience.
I never thought it would happen, but I never gave up hope, and now I might be ina position in 12 month's time to have another bash at the airlines with a few more hours in my pocket and a whole load of new friends to boot.
Stay with it and best of luck to you all.
This time yesterday, I was attending a series of interviews for jobs that I really didn't want to do, but decided I had to because I needed the money.
I'm 32, married, hold a frozen ATPL, live in a town that could only be described as a fancy slum (street names and house numbers making it posh), have an endowment which won't pay my mortgage (even though a BA FO could buy my house in cash with their first year's take home pay), shares which I wanted to use to pay for my training which would not now buy me an FI rating and have accrued debts/lost earnings as a result of my training which must run into 6 figures.
Today, I still have all of the above, but I am as happy as a pig in sh*t because I now have a flying job.
It is only part-time, barely covers my expenses for getting to the job and will only log me single crew, single engine time. But I am still happy. I won't be rich, but I will be current and I will be getting some valuable experience.
I never thought it would happen, but I never gave up hope, and now I might be ina position in 12 month's time to have another bash at the airlines with a few more hours in my pocket and a whole load of new friends to boot.
Stay with it and best of luck to you all.
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I am one of those that gave up!
For 4 years i haven't been so miserable in my life!!!
Luke Skytoddler said earlier that
"It's really sad to run into old mates of yours who aren't flying any more."
This is true, but on the flipside, its even more frustrating to run into old flying friends that didn't give up and are now flying for the majors.
So i am now back in the game, have all my licences renewed and have joined the back of the queue.....yet again, but this time i will not be giving up, thats for sure!!!
Chin up
Blue Skies
For 4 years i haven't been so miserable in my life!!!
Luke Skytoddler said earlier that
"It's really sad to run into old mates of yours who aren't flying any more."
This is true, but on the flipside, its even more frustrating to run into old flying friends that didn't give up and are now flying for the majors.
So i am now back in the game, have all my licences renewed and have joined the back of the queue.....yet again, but this time i will not be giving up, thats for sure!!!
Chin up
Blue Skies
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Sorry Hoping,
I should have read your reply more carefully.I didnt realise you had only done 4 hours.
Anyway , it doesnt have to be that expensive or take that long.
I meant for my post to be aimed at people who hold an FATPL and are looking for a job.
Im 25 /500 hrs Fatpl/E30000 in the hole
I should have read your reply more carefully.I didnt realise you had only done 4 hours.
Anyway , it doesnt have to be that expensive or take that long.
I meant for my post to be aimed at people who hold an FATPL and are looking for a job.
Im 25 /500 hrs Fatpl/E30000 in the hole
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Well Well Well
Ryan Air truely sinking to new depths. Where will it end.
I'm in for £65K now, I cant give up. I'm in so deep theres no turning back. The only difference for me I sold my house and
had the cash. I've been in a **** avaition job for 2 years seeing the lucky unfreeze and achieve what I deserve more in many cases. I just started too late by a year I suppose
I have absolutely no idea what advise to give, my life is in total limbo and has been ever since leaving Oxford. I did everything thing right and am stuck.
My only tonic is that I know I'm not alone and my mate told me how much he now owes the bank. He borrowed in the end £70k all in after living and the course.
I'm not going to say how much its increased to now, but boy oh boy I'm so grateful I only lost my career and place in the property market.
He'll probably never recover financially.
Am I unhappy not really I'm rich in love and support thats all you need in the end.
Maybe one day this plastic blue might pay me back all the hurt.
Some truth from the Oxford marketing department would have been nice. Nobody said it could turn out this bad, the bottom run was t/prop job £22k or something. Jesus I wish...
Oh it sunny outside I think I'll kick a ball around for a while till the Simpsons.
Ryan Air truely sinking to new depths. Where will it end.
I'm in for £65K now, I cant give up. I'm in so deep theres no turning back. The only difference for me I sold my house and
had the cash. I've been in a **** avaition job for 2 years seeing the lucky unfreeze and achieve what I deserve more in many cases. I just started too late by a year I suppose
I have absolutely no idea what advise to give, my life is in total limbo and has been ever since leaving Oxford. I did everything thing right and am stuck.
My only tonic is that I know I'm not alone and my mate told me how much he now owes the bank. He borrowed in the end £70k all in after living and the course.
I'm not going to say how much its increased to now, but boy oh boy I'm so grateful I only lost my career and place in the property market.
He'll probably never recover financially.
Am I unhappy not really I'm rich in love and support thats all you need in the end.
Maybe one day this plastic blue might pay me back all the hurt.
Some truth from the Oxford marketing department would have been nice. Nobody said it could turn out this bad, the bottom run was t/prop job £22k or something. Jesus I wish...
Oh it sunny outside I think I'll kick a ball around for a while till the Simpsons.
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It'll come right though people ... I really believe we're at the bottom of the hole now looking up. I know for a fact there's at least one chief pilot of a large IT carrier in the UK who would love nothing better than to hire a load of pilots but he's been holding off because of fears over this &*%$ war ... I reckon there's a lot of companies in that position too.
Lets all keep on praying for a quick and bloodless end to the damn thing and then pax numbers can recover and we can all get on with getting our jobs.
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what is give up?
renew ur license and wait for a job!. or just finish ur cpl/frozen. sure we have to put this in stand by ,and make money somewhere else for a while. just a bad time in the economy. do something elses and keep an eye on the aviation market.
aviation is like a sinusoidal, go up and down! from 0 degree to 360 degrees.
renew ur license and wait for a job!. or just finish ur cpl/frozen. sure we have to put this in stand by ,and make money somewhere else for a while. just a bad time in the economy. do something elses and keep an eye on the aviation market.
aviation is like a sinusoidal, go up and down! from 0 degree to 360 degrees.
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You know Ronchonner, it's nice to see your latest incarnation isn't as obnoxious as some of the others, but you still get maximum points for making rambling irrelevant posts that people can almost-but-not-quite understand ...
