Ever thought of giving up????
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I work for an airline flight training department, & in common with the majority of my colleagues, hold an ATPL with multiple thousands os hours experience. I have been in the industry for the past 12 years & am particularly interested to see 5 of my colleagues leave the company in the past week to persue careers outside of aviation. The feeling is that they wanted to establish themselves in another career before they are to old to make the change, dismayed at a bleak future in the current marketplace, & quite frankly, because they can make significantly more money in the outside world. These individuals were not at risk of redundancy, indeed if anything the outlook is good. One of them told me he was simply tired with the prospect of dealing with more of the frustrations this industry presents.
If I'd known then what I know now, would I have been so enthusiatic? Possibly not.
If I'd known then what I know now, would I have been so enthusiatic? Possibly not.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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LUc sky...
thank you for your support!
I thought this website is for intelligent pilots, so please post what you want, but not in a way to insult other wanabees, see my point?.
this is what we call freedom .Are you a cousin of saddam?
thank you for your support!
I thought this website is for intelligent pilots, so please post what you want, but not in a way to insult other wanabees, see my point?.
this is what we call freedom .Are you a cousin of saddam?
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Hee hee ... Ronchonner baiting ... you're right foghorn it is nice to have him back 
Now then lovefly, if you had listened to Ronchonner pre 9/11 how come you only registered last week?
I smell a rat ... a strongly garlic flavoured one 
Now then lovefly, if you had listened to Ronchonner pre 9/11 how come you only registered last week?
I smell a rat ... a strongly garlic flavoured one
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I've just quickly scanned some of the replies here.
Come on guys and girls, less to and frow.
The serious issue here is how does one get through the serious financial predicament.
All the hassle and expense of achieving a fATPL-MCC is way back.
Memories of Ox are truly distant.
My day to day reality is making breaks in the industry, paying bills
and fighting depression, in a truely f***ed up industry.
If your still trying to achieve your license, my comments are not for you. Your head should still be in the clouds and books at college.
What your take years after attaining the glorious BLUE BOOK?
Ta Ta
Come on guys and girls, less to and frow.
The serious issue here is how does one get through the serious financial predicament.
All the hassle and expense of achieving a fATPL-MCC is way back.
Memories of Ox are truly distant.
My day to day reality is making breaks in the industry, paying bills
and fighting depression, in a truely f***ed up industry.
If your still trying to achieve your license, my comments are not for you. Your head should still be in the clouds and books at college.
What your take years after attaining the glorious BLUE BOOK?
Ta Ta
Join Date: Jan 2003
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I graduated OAT mid last year on the promise from the bastards that doing well would mean a recommendation blah blah blah. Again like Ox2001 worst case was t/prop for regional.
So over 90% average in g/school (all first time ) and a first time IR later Ox say they do not recommend people anymore because that shows favouritism (!?!?) and not a sniff of a job.
While not entirely believing everything the marketing dept said I never thought it would be this hard to get a job.
I have to say at the mo I am actively looking at starting a new career because the crap jobs I am doing are not paying the bills! I have read all the stuff above about not giving up and how it will get better after the war but I have to live!
So over 90% average in g/school (all first time ) and a first time IR later Ox say they do not recommend people anymore because that shows favouritism (!?!?) and not a sniff of a job.
While not entirely believing everything the marketing dept said I never thought it would be this hard to get a job.
I have to say at the mo I am actively looking at starting a new career because the crap jobs I am doing are not paying the bills! I have read all the stuff above about not giving up and how it will get better after the war but I have to live!
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Conventional Wisdom and Reality
I've said this several times over the last couple of years, but I think that many of the winners in the current game will be those who can best weather the storm and emerge in a financially strong and stable position ready for the recovery afterwards. If this means pursuing other careers for a while, repaying those debts and saving while just keeping barely current, well so be it.
Yes the conventional wisdom says 'stay in the industry', but that is where that wisdom ends - it is usually followed with few realistic suggestions on just how you do this when there are few if any openings in aviation for low hour pilots. Those bills and costly loan repayments have to be paid somehow.
And the number of posts we've seen from 2000+ hour plus SEP instructors who still haven't had a sniff of a job is sad - I personally know many more in that position who don't post here. Walk into your local PPL school and there's a high chance you'll see the same faces that were there two years ago. The way things currently look they'll probably still be there in twelve months time. All credit to them, they tried to stay in the industry, however grind of another year existing on peanuts or even negative cashflow must be heartbreaking.
My point in this ramble? Don't see moving outside the industry as giving up. See it as a period of consolidation. You have to be realistic about what you can and can't do, about what will move you closer to your goal in the long term - if you can earn more outside aviation, do it, and utilise that cash wisely - repay debts or save for whatever the next step in the plan is. There are ways of staying current that don't cost that much (capital-less group flying, PFA aircraft, knackered old FNPT(G)s for example).
And at the end of it all, keep smiling, we're at the bottom of the cycle right now, looking up.
cheers!
foggy.
Yes the conventional wisdom says 'stay in the industry', but that is where that wisdom ends - it is usually followed with few realistic suggestions on just how you do this when there are few if any openings in aviation for low hour pilots. Those bills and costly loan repayments have to be paid somehow.
And the number of posts we've seen from 2000+ hour plus SEP instructors who still haven't had a sniff of a job is sad - I personally know many more in that position who don't post here. Walk into your local PPL school and there's a high chance you'll see the same faces that were there two years ago. The way things currently look they'll probably still be there in twelve months time. All credit to them, they tried to stay in the industry, however grind of another year existing on peanuts or even negative cashflow must be heartbreaking.
My point in this ramble? Don't see moving outside the industry as giving up. See it as a period of consolidation. You have to be realistic about what you can and can't do, about what will move you closer to your goal in the long term - if you can earn more outside aviation, do it, and utilise that cash wisely - repay debts or save for whatever the next step in the plan is. There are ways of staying current that don't cost that much (capital-less group flying, PFA aircraft, knackered old FNPT(G)s for example).
And at the end of it all, keep smiling, we're at the bottom of the cycle right now, looking up.
cheers!
foggy.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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'ain't no quitters on this here forum, right?
I'm sure the thought of giving up has crossed everyone's mind at some stage, afterall the route we're taking involves hard work and investing lots of cash with no guarantees at the end of it.
In the current climate with regards to the global economy and war in Iraq, the situation has been compounded.
I admit that recently, I've been considering postponing for a while, but the overriding factor IMHO is that regardless of if there are jobs out there or not at the present time, if I don't hold a licence I can't even apply for a job! Therefore, I want to be in in the position of holding an fATPL and keeping her current until things pick up.
As for giving up? Well, my view is that if I don't do it now, I'll bitterly regret not having at least tried, when I'm an old git!
Chin up all, & enjoy these CAVOK days (well in the South East it is!)
NW
In the current climate with regards to the global economy and war in Iraq, the situation has been compounded.
I admit that recently, I've been considering postponing for a while, but the overriding factor IMHO is that regardless of if there are jobs out there or not at the present time, if I don't hold a licence I can't even apply for a job! Therefore, I want to be in in the position of holding an fATPL and keeping her current until things pick up.
As for giving up? Well, my view is that if I don't do it now, I'll bitterly regret not having at least tried, when I'm an old git!
Chin up all, & enjoy these CAVOK days (well in the South East it is!)
NW
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Have thought about giving up many times before but I'm not going to do anything so drastic, not now anyway.
Money apart, most of us have sacrificed a great deal to pursue the dream and I have asked myself many times as to whether it's really worth it in the end. I can't always answer that question positively.
When I first came to this site as a visitor in late April 2000, the industry was flourishing and far healthier than it is now. A few months later I left a well paid, but fairly dull professional job to chance my arm in it. When I started out I thought my maturity and sense (I was late 20s with a few years of professional work behind me) would stand me in good stead. Three years and a few nasty knocks later those rose tinted glasses have long since been removed. I have learned more about the harsh realities of life in the last three years than I had in the previous decade! If I could turn back the clock I would. Not so much to do something totally different but just to do things slightly differently.
Now that I have a frozen ATPL but no flying work I have to decide what happens next. Everyone who has undergone training knows that life goes on hold during that period, but if you haven't done the training you won't know what I'm talking about. I have much respect for full-time instructors, some of whom have a couple thousand hours who are just hanging on waiting for the upturn. I know a number who have been in that position for a few years now and it must be hard to live on pretty low wages. Instructing is good experience, hell I have a rating myself but I'm not going to flog myself for those extra hours - my quality of life is far more important!
So in conclusion, I'm going to try to get back into my previous career for now. It's not that easy having been away for nearly three years and now no one trusts me either. They know when things pick up again I'll be off. If I can instruct on days off or weekends then I'll be happy. Like most others I'm going to watch very carefully what happens to the industry in the next few weeks and months!
Good luck all!
Money apart, most of us have sacrificed a great deal to pursue the dream and I have asked myself many times as to whether it's really worth it in the end. I can't always answer that question positively.
When I first came to this site as a visitor in late April 2000, the industry was flourishing and far healthier than it is now. A few months later I left a well paid, but fairly dull professional job to chance my arm in it. When I started out I thought my maturity and sense (I was late 20s with a few years of professional work behind me) would stand me in good stead. Three years and a few nasty knocks later those rose tinted glasses have long since been removed. I have learned more about the harsh realities of life in the last three years than I had in the previous decade! If I could turn back the clock I would. Not so much to do something totally different but just to do things slightly differently.
Now that I have a frozen ATPL but no flying work I have to decide what happens next. Everyone who has undergone training knows that life goes on hold during that period, but if you haven't done the training you won't know what I'm talking about. I have much respect for full-time instructors, some of whom have a couple thousand hours who are just hanging on waiting for the upturn. I know a number who have been in that position for a few years now and it must be hard to live on pretty low wages. Instructing is good experience, hell I have a rating myself but I'm not going to flog myself for those extra hours - my quality of life is far more important!
So in conclusion, I'm going to try to get back into my previous career for now. It's not that easy having been away for nearly three years and now no one trusts me either. They know when things pick up again I'll be off. If I can instruct on days off or weekends then I'll be happy. Like most others I'm going to watch very carefully what happens to the industry in the next few weeks and months!
Good luck all!
Last edited by Crosswind Limits; 5th Apr 2003 at 02:28.
