View Poll Results: What would you prefer to fly
Short Haul (UK, France, Eire etc)
90
30.61%
Medium Haul (Canaries, Cyprus etc)
105
35.71%
Long Haul
99
33.67%
Voters: 294. This poll is closed
Employed by an airline with 250hrs!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Does the ryanair cadetship come from those who pay the fifty quid to apply? Are we sure there is not a law against this kind of thing?
Thanks for the post thing.
BTW - we lost again!!
Sometimes I think finding a job flying is as hard as being an england cricket supporter, only in flying there is a chance of winning a job!
Thanks for the post thing.
BTW - we lost again!!
Sometimes I think finding a job flying is as hard as being an england cricket supporter, only in flying there is a chance of winning a job!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I work for a charter airline on the 737-200 which still gives a certain amount of job satisfaction and amusement to fly. In the past we have been known to take on guys with very low hours, albeit positively vetted by the local school and recommendations made.
I have also noticed folks being a bit choosy about their first job. Don't be, the competition is fierce and most wannabes have time on their side. You can still take a turbo-prop job at the age of ,say, 24 and be a jet captain by 30 if you work at it and approach the right airlines.
The only thing about our low hours guys was that they were the first to go after 9/11.
I have also noticed folks being a bit choosy about their first job. Don't be, the competition is fierce and most wannabes have time on their side. You can still take a turbo-prop job at the age of ,say, 24 and be a jet captain by 30 if you work at it and approach the right airlines.
The only thing about our low hours guys was that they were the first to go after 9/11.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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take it easy
I perfectly agree with Slim20 because I miss so much the time I was flying just for me and i have to say that now IT IS JUST A JOB , a very nice job, a stressing job , but at the end of the month it becames the only job able to give a certain amount of money .
Anyway do not forget how many nights per months you do not sleep in your own bed !?!?!?!?
Anyway do not forget how many nights per months you do not sleep in your own bed !?!?!?!?
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Lads (Slim20 & Job Hunter) while you may consider flying for a living as being JUST A JOB I'm sure like me that there are plenty on here who would gladly move over from training in Cessna's to seeing that dream through and flying turbo props or jets. everyone knows that the life of a pilot at times is a very stressful one what with sim checks, medicals, and that there a many nights a month that you don't sleep in your own bed but think back to when you were training and then searching for that first job I'm sure these thoughts went through your head at that stage. It certainly didn't deter you from your goal at that time. I'd be more then happy to rid you of your boredom by sitting into that seat for you. Maybe its time for a career change I'll swoop with ya
Grim Sleeper
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Job Hunter
All right mate no need to boast. I'm married so i have to sleep in me own bed at night!
Sullie
I agree, I thought just the way you do, and it's very important to keep "the dream" going, it gives you the hunger to keep trying and pushing for that flying job.
But don't think for a minute that it's this never ending gravy train of glamorous flying. It's being shut up in a noisy cramped metal box for six to eight hours a day, watching a machine do your job, getting shouted at by various incomprehensible foreign ATC bods, in rain, sleet, ice, gales and snow, and all the time you're wondering how your unscrupulous airline management is going to shaft you tomorrow. And the pay's generally not exactly going to finance fast cars, women and a coke habit....
BUT!! as you say it's flying for a living, and nothing will match that feeling i got on the first day i turned up for work. You go for it son.
All right mate no need to boast. I'm married so i have to sleep in me own bed at night!
Sullie
I agree, I thought just the way you do, and it's very important to keep "the dream" going, it gives you the hunger to keep trying and pushing for that flying job.
But don't think for a minute that it's this never ending gravy train of glamorous flying. It's being shut up in a noisy cramped metal box for six to eight hours a day, watching a machine do your job, getting shouted at by various incomprehensible foreign ATC bods, in rain, sleet, ice, gales and snow, and all the time you're wondering how your unscrupulous airline management is going to shaft you tomorrow. And the pay's generally not exactly going to finance fast cars, women and a coke habit....
BUT!! as you say it's flying for a living, and nothing will match that feeling i got on the first day i turned up for work. You go for it son.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Wish some chaps/chappesses would stop going on about the fact that when they were young they had to live in a rolled up newspaper.
Just because it was difficult then doesn't mean that things should never improve. Unless that is you believe that we should still have children up chimneys, use mangles to do washing and teach young ladies deportment by making them sit with books on their heads.
It seems hard enough to even get an interview much less a job in this business. So if some chap is lucky enought to get straight into a jet then lucky them.
When we learnt to do the rotary thang we started in turbines because that what the government gave us did it make us worse pilots!!!
Surely if companies take low hours pilots they can groom them in the company way. Can't the skipper teach them the ropes as they go?
I'll get my coat now
Just because it was difficult then doesn't mean that things should never improve. Unless that is you believe that we should still have children up chimneys, use mangles to do washing and teach young ladies deportment by making them sit with books on their heads.
It seems hard enough to even get an interview much less a job in this business. So if some chap is lucky enought to get straight into a jet then lucky them.
When we learnt to do the rotary thang we started in turbines because that what the government gave us did it make us worse pilots!!!
Surely if companies take low hours pilots they can groom them in the company way. Can't the skipper teach them the ropes as they go?
I'll get my coat now
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WEE (SMALL) WILLY WELSHMAN
What makes u such an expert? I know all ur credentials, stop giving the inexperienced guys false hopes. Getting a job at the moment is next to impossible. I fly for 'The Worlds Favourite Airline' and believe me it's not all roses. Get a GRIP SMELL REALITY and stop ur hatred 4 any airline other than Easy out of BRS, ur not liked and I know that. If u paid more attention to ur job the number of ASR's would decline... in essence read the manuals and not the content on this site... Let the guys have a realistic and truthful opinion... get a life...
Diamond 2000. Hmm, were you drunk?
Getting a job at the moment is not next to impossible. I could name the names of people that were at Jerez in 2001/2 who have just got jobs on 737's and 757's with easyJet and Britannia. Others with a few more hours are currently moving out of the likes of Emerald into the likes of BACX freeing up more RHS positions...
There is movement, it is very competitive and my postings reflect that understanding.
I never imagined flying for the Worlds Favourite ever was a bed of roses. Thanks. As to the rest - sticks and stones my friend, why not get in contact with me and we'll sort it out man to man.
Cheers,
WWW
Getting a job at the moment is not next to impossible. I could name the names of people that were at Jerez in 2001/2 who have just got jobs on 737's and 757's with easyJet and Britannia. Others with a few more hours are currently moving out of the likes of Emerald into the likes of BACX freeing up more RHS positions...
There is movement, it is very competitive and my postings reflect that understanding.
I never imagined flying for the Worlds Favourite ever was a bed of roses. Thanks. As to the rest - sticks and stones my friend, why not get in contact with me and we'll sort it out man to man.
Cheers,
WWW
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moving out of the likes of Emerald into the likes of BACX freeing up more RHS positions...
Surely not as there is an existing pool of guys who've just been told that no intake will be likely before January 2004 (and only 3 weeks ago it was August 03).
I am pretty sure there s no movement whatsoever at BACX so you probably meant to use another example. As for BMI regional, intake planned for late spring/summer time between 5 to 12 guys (interviews already organised, starting the day after tomorrow).
Wrt low timers getting jobs with Britannia, they jad been selected prior 9/11 so it is slightly biased but in essence correct.
But yes, getting a job at the moment is perfectly possible atlhough as previously said, this is a very competitive market (something to get used to
), even more for low hours. Keep it up though and the wheel will turn in your favour.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Streamline have just taken on 3 FO's. Before you all get excited, they did the TRTO course about 12-18 months ago. One was from BACX.
There is movement but generally for people with some experience. This of course does mean that openings will appear in the smaller operators.It's a bastard of an industry but it really hasn't been much different for about 30 or so years.
There is movement but generally for people with some experience. This of course does mean that openings will appear in the smaller operators.It's a bastard of an industry but it really hasn't been much different for about 30 or so years.
Amex - I meant guys who were recently recruited into the BACX pool - I didn't realise that the start date had been put back so much.
It is a little unfair anyway to suggest I mindlessly give over optomistic encouragement to wannabes... if anything I get criticised for being too downbeat! For the half a dozen guys I know who have managed to get themselves hired in the last 12 months I know of dozens and dozens who haven't had a sniff.
But time and retirements and new aircraft march on. Some hiring is going to happen this Spring - and if the replacements do not come in from across the channel then the light at the end of the Wannabe tunnel may just not be the 12.30 Express.
Hope so.
WWW
It is a little unfair anyway to suggest I mindlessly give over optomistic encouragement to wannabes... if anything I get criticised for being too downbeat! For the half a dozen guys I know who have managed to get themselves hired in the last 12 months I know of dozens and dozens who haven't had a sniff.
But time and retirements and new aircraft march on. Some hiring is going to happen this Spring - and if the replacements do not come in from across the channel then the light at the end of the Wannabe tunnel may just not be the 12.30 Express.
Hope so.
WWW
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I think it is right that the more experienced amongst us give us all an idea of what the job is like a lot further down the line. I did not read any of their posts as suggesting they were willing to give it up but merely that they were doing the same things day to day and it becomes less of the thrill (which is human nature) as it goes on. Unfortunately flying will end up by being just a job, but I do think it important that wannabees keep the dream alive as long as possible.
Basically anywhere where you need to earn money to pay for bills etc will get routine as you are no longer doing it for fun etc..
I would doubt that many people if given a million pounds a year would continue to fly 300 abusive pax from Ibiza home at the end of a drunken binge holiday when they could just fly their own plane with gorgeous women around the beauty of australia or africa?
Why would you not do the ibiza thing - because it is a job earning you money and not necessarily the most enjoyable thing in the world even if you enjoy certain aspects of it!
Basically anywhere where you need to earn money to pay for bills etc will get routine as you are no longer doing it for fun etc..
I would doubt that many people if given a million pounds a year would continue to fly 300 abusive pax from Ibiza home at the end of a drunken binge holiday when they could just fly their own plane with gorgeous women around the beauty of australia or africa?
Why would you not do the ibiza thing - because it is a job earning you money and not necessarily the most enjoyable thing in the world even if you enjoy certain aspects of it!
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There is mention in this thread of retirements, and a better hiring environment ahead.
However, does anyone, anywhere, have statisics as to
a) how many qualified pilots there are in the UK?
b) how many are in employment?
c) and, of course, how many are unemploved?
d) how many pilots have retired in the past year?
e) how many newly qualified pilots have come on the market in the past year?
Does the CAA have access to these figures? They would be interesting.
However, does anyone, anywhere, have statisics as to
a) how many qualified pilots there are in the UK?
b) how many are in employment?
c) and, of course, how many are unemploved?
d) how many pilots have retired in the past year?
e) how many newly qualified pilots have come on the market in the past year?
Does the CAA have access to these figures? They would be interesting.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Flybe have had over thirty resignations over the last couple of months.
Destinations include easy, Britannia, Titan, Virgin, Dragonair, Air2000................
There is quite a movement of experienced guys within the industry creating new opportunities for wannabes.
Cheers BronzeAge
Destinations include easy, Britannia, Titan, Virgin, Dragonair, Air2000................
There is quite a movement of experienced guys within the industry creating new opportunities for wannabes.
Cheers BronzeAge
Well the CAA have the data but its never been published in such a form as to make deriving what you want easy. You need to cross current Class One medicals with licenses to find out who is actually holding a license and available for work for a start.
However, these days the whole problem is much much bigger. You would need the data from all the JAA member states CAA's and all in the same format counted in the same way.
Thats not going to happen in my lifetime!
Remember that the old game of guessing the UK market for pilots was just about manageable with a fair margin of error. A good guess at BA's intentions, a brief study of the military scene and then a general stab at the other airlines plans and you could make at least a reasoned guess.
I fear that the whole business is now too big with too many variables post JAA. Sabena went bust and suddenly hundreds of type rated experienced pilots hoved into view with pressing mortgage commitments.
Continued stagnation on the continent, combined with Gulf War 2 and the invasion of the low cost models might yet see major airline collapses Sausage Side. With predictable results for Joey 200hrs unfortunately.
< wanders off whistling "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life" >
Good luck,
WWW
However, these days the whole problem is much much bigger. You would need the data from all the JAA member states CAA's and all in the same format counted in the same way.
Thats not going to happen in my lifetime!
Remember that the old game of guessing the UK market for pilots was just about manageable with a fair margin of error. A good guess at BA's intentions, a brief study of the military scene and then a general stab at the other airlines plans and you could make at least a reasoned guess.
I fear that the whole business is now too big with too many variables post JAA. Sabena went bust and suddenly hundreds of type rated experienced pilots hoved into view with pressing mortgage commitments.
Continued stagnation on the continent, combined with Gulf War 2 and the invasion of the low cost models might yet see major airline collapses Sausage Side. With predictable results for Joey 200hrs unfortunately.
< wanders off whistling "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life" >
Good luck,
WWW
Props are for boats!
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Well to totally hate my job would be lunacy really. Im the person that put me here. Im the wally for doing all that inital bush flying for next to nucs and I am the total idiot for accepting poor wages.
If this was how I really feel then, I wouldnt go any further, and if I were the one WHO still feels this way once getting as far as one can go ie. Long Haul Captain Heavey Jet. Then one needs to to take a reality check and figure why they want the job. They perfectly knew what they were getting into yet the still whinge.
To me flying is the experience and also pays the bills . Because in our perfect world, the Power Bill still arrives in the mail box wether we like it or not.
For those guys trying for the Airlines, keep the dream alive. Those allready there, and are sick and still whinging. Try something else for a week like emptying Bed Pans in an Old Age home. It may be the reality check you need.
I would like to fly Meduim Haul and Lond Haul if it is only North South operation ie. no time zone displacement.
Regards
Sheep
PS. Got my first Airline after 3300 hrs then my second after 3900hrs. Direct Entry Captain DHC-6. So you can see Im still searching for Big Iron. It will come.
If this was how I really feel then, I wouldnt go any further, and if I were the one WHO still feels this way once getting as far as one can go ie. Long Haul Captain Heavey Jet. Then one needs to to take a reality check and figure why they want the job. They perfectly knew what they were getting into yet the still whinge.
To me flying is the experience and also pays the bills . Because in our perfect world, the Power Bill still arrives in the mail box wether we like it or not.
For those guys trying for the Airlines, keep the dream alive. Those allready there, and are sick and still whinging. Try something else for a week like emptying Bed Pans in an Old Age home. It may be the reality check you need.
I would like to fly Meduim Haul and Lond Haul if it is only North South operation ie. no time zone displacement.
Regards
Sheep
PS. Got my first Airline after 3300 hrs then my second after 3900hrs. Direct Entry Captain DHC-6. So you can see Im still searching for Big Iron. It will come.
Join Date: May 2002
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I'm about to start my training in Jerez and a ex south african police freind of mine told me about his mate who flew for the UN, he said it was such fun and it was fairly well paid. Landing on dirt strips, he said he did flying that you wouldn't even imagine doing for an airline.
I think it pays to do something adventurous before you set up your lifelong career with an airline.
Tell me what you guys reckon.
I think it pays to do something adventurous before you set up your lifelong career with an airline.
Tell me what you guys reckon.
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Ric '82,
Unless you have solid experience flying light twins in the bush the UN, etc. will not touch you; flying around Africa in Dash 7's and Buffalos is a serious business.
Sheep Gut's,
I fly "big iron" and I can tell you that if I was not flying "big iron" or any other iron for that matter, I would most certainly not be emptying bed pans in an old age home, more than likely be working for an investment bank. Your point is invalid.
Those coming out of OATS, Jerez, etc. would be best off by trying 100% to get into a JAR ops airline, that is what you’re trained for.
It will happen, best of British luck to you all!
Unless you have solid experience flying light twins in the bush the UN, etc. will not touch you; flying around Africa in Dash 7's and Buffalos is a serious business.
Sheep Gut's,
I fly "big iron" and I can tell you that if I was not flying "big iron" or any other iron for that matter, I would most certainly not be emptying bed pans in an old age home, more than likely be working for an investment bank. Your point is invalid.
Those coming out of OATS, Jerez, etc. would be best off by trying 100% to get into a JAR ops airline, that is what you’re trained for.
It will happen, best of British luck to you all!
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Employed by an airline with 250hrs
To all of you crazy, debt ridden wannabe's,
My husband now fly's 757's for an airline, having experienced his first job as an air taxi operator (C310's) and built up 900 hrs, after that was employed by an airline. He did the modular route along with lots of other people who took their first job doing parachute work or getting into CTC at Bournemouth. If it is any consolation over 90% of the chaps he trained with are now working for an airline and very happily paying off their debts. He finished his training in Jan 1999 and got his first job in June 1999. So my advice would be you will get there ... eventually it is only a matter of how hard you are prepared to work to get there.
It is incredibly difficult to get an airline job, but not impossible and of course... one makes their own luck..
Good luck and Do Not Quit
Bovey
My husband now fly's 757's for an airline, having experienced his first job as an air taxi operator (C310's) and built up 900 hrs, after that was employed by an airline. He did the modular route along with lots of other people who took their first job doing parachute work or getting into CTC at Bournemouth. If it is any consolation over 90% of the chaps he trained with are now working for an airline and very happily paying off their debts. He finished his training in Jan 1999 and got his first job in June 1999. So my advice would be you will get there ... eventually it is only a matter of how hard you are prepared to work to get there.
It is incredibly difficult to get an airline job, but not impossible and of course... one makes their own luck..
Good luck and Do Not Quit
Bovey