View Poll Results: What would you prefer to fly
Short Haul (UK, France, Eire etc)
90
30.61%
Medium Haul (Canaries, Cyprus etc)
105
35.71%
Long Haul
99
33.67%
Voters: 294. This poll is closed
Employed by an airline with 250hrs!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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to find a job:
you need a positive attitude and deep pockets.
but if you do not have a + attitude but you still have deep pockets.thats ok!
but if you do not have a positive attitude and no deep pockets, thats not OK!
everything is in your attitude(only)!
you need a positive attitude and deep pockets.
but if you do not have a + attitude but you still have deep pockets.thats ok!
but if you do not have a positive attitude and no deep pockets, thats not OK!
everything is in your attitude(only)!
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This is strange- the forum summary shows that the last posting on this thread was at 00:26 on 5 December, but when I opened up the thread, the last posting on the list is that of faacfi at 20:26 on 1 December.
This has happened before, just a few days ago.
This has happened before, just a few days ago.
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G-spot....
I work for an airline that needed so many in the last boom, that they started hiring very low time pilots.
The experiment has worked. The idea is to train from the very beginning to create the same habits in all their pilots. One of the criticisms of hiring high time pilots was how fussy they are, having established their time proven techniques.
I know that if someone told me now that I should learn to do things differently, it would be much harder than when I was new.
At least where I work, time is not a factor.
Having the balls to apply, is!
I work for an airline that needed so many in the last boom, that they started hiring very low time pilots.
The experiment has worked. The idea is to train from the very beginning to create the same habits in all their pilots. One of the criticisms of hiring high time pilots was how fussy they are, having established their time proven techniques.
I know that if someone told me now that I should learn to do things differently, it would be much harder than when I was new.
At least where I work, time is not a factor.
Having the balls to apply, is!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Sea Dog
Errrrrrrrrr... let me think of a few things to inspire you with regard to getting your first pilots job quickly after completing your training.........
1.
.
Errrrrrrrrr... let me think of a few things to inspire you with regard to getting your first pilots job quickly after completing your training.........
1.
.
Join Date: May 2002
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ANY ONE CAN FLY
Any one can fly.
I taught some people how to fly that are now flying BIG AIRLINERS and I am scared and somewhat ashamed b/c maybe these people shouldn't be flying these type of planes.
If you really want to fly, you will do ALL of the steps.
Personally I like OLD planes cuz you do all of the flying, with new planes they fly by themselves.
One of my very good buddys, who does not fly, only in virtual flying, said to me that he can fly any plane but the big NEW planes, as they are boring. He said, the plane does everything; I like the old series b/c I do ALL the flying.
he is SOOOOOO right!
If you wanna fly for money then, yes, go right ahead.
it is a free world!
to me I would like to fly them all.
I hope I get to do them all.
Like with women/men (depending on who reads this.)
Happy Holidays
I taught some people how to fly that are now flying BIG AIRLINERS and I am scared and somewhat ashamed b/c maybe these people shouldn't be flying these type of planes.
If you really want to fly, you will do ALL of the steps.
Personally I like OLD planes cuz you do all of the flying, with new planes they fly by themselves.
One of my very good buddys, who does not fly, only in virtual flying, said to me that he can fly any plane but the big NEW planes, as they are boring. He said, the plane does everything; I like the old series b/c I do ALL the flying.
he is SOOOOOO right!
If you wanna fly for money then, yes, go right ahead.
it is a free world!
to me I would like to fly them all.
I hope I get to do them all.
Like with women/men (depending on who reads this.)
Happy Holidays
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Does the Guy/Gal who packs the car up drives 2 million klms, goes thru 2 billion A4 sheets of cv's and gets told to "go away" only to get back in the car and keep driving count for nothing to the airlines?
What about the character who takes the 150 hr/year job in the sh***est place ever just to "have a go" because he/she is sick of living out the back of a car.
I pay my respects to those people hey.
I still meet characters that are choosey about there first job.
"Mmm yeah.. well I don't really want to take it I mean its only 10 hrs a week and its in the middle of nowhere...oh and apparently you w-o-r-k when you are not flying"
Good luck if you are in a position to go straight into an airline at 200 hrs. I would take it any day.
What about the character who takes the 150 hr/year job in the sh***est place ever just to "have a go" because he/she is sick of living out the back of a car.
I pay my respects to those people hey.
I still meet characters that are choosey about there first job.
"Mmm yeah.. well I don't really want to take it I mean its only 10 hrs a week and its in the middle of nowhere...oh and apparently you w-o-r-k when you are not flying"
Good luck if you are in a position to go straight into an airline at 200 hrs. I would take it any day.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I expressed my opinion before on this subject and it still hasn't changed. Now more than ever the competition a low hours pilot is up against is stiffer than ever. I still think a 200hr pilot and a 1000hr pilot are low hours pilots. So don't kid yourself into thinking that because you've built some hours in a single it should put you to the front of the queue. Broadly speaking it's hours that matter, but quality is as important as quantity. If there is a minimum number specified for a specific operator then, yes, that quantity is important, but you are still in the race with an awful lot of more highly 'houred' pilots. That is the blunt reality.
From my limited experience the airlines seem to be tending more towards the individual rather than the 'hours'. They want a pilot who fits their desired profile rather than the guy with the most 'hours', especially in these HR driven times.
This probably doesn't make for happy reading for those newly qualified CPL's out there, but this IS the reality. So what do you do? You make your luck. If you send 200 cv's and get no response then you send some more, but not just sending cv's, improve your skill set by flying anything for anyone, anywhere. Sounds too hard does it? Well unfortunately if it does then you will become another statistic. You need to get out there, making aquaintances, meeting people who can put in a word or get your cv read. Networking. You MUST get the inside track. You must learn who's recruiting before or as it happens and don't give up, be persistent. That is the only way you will get the interview, because if you don't someone else will. That's making your own luck, sitting back at home bleating because you have spent too much money on stamps already is not. It's easy to get depressed by the seeming impossiblilty of securing a job and the one thing that is sure is that will drag you down and leave you resentful of the whole industry. Some people take a couple of years before they really understand the harsh reality of this industry. That's usually two years lost of experience building.
If it's all too much then you don't deserve the job. I wouldn't want to sit behind you as a pax if that was your attitude. Airlines want winners who bounce back from setbacks and keep a positive attitude............you'll need it if things go pearshaped at V1.
Chin up. Good (self made) luck.
PP
From my limited experience the airlines seem to be tending more towards the individual rather than the 'hours'. They want a pilot who fits their desired profile rather than the guy with the most 'hours', especially in these HR driven times.
This probably doesn't make for happy reading for those newly qualified CPL's out there, but this IS the reality. So what do you do? You make your luck. If you send 200 cv's and get no response then you send some more, but not just sending cv's, improve your skill set by flying anything for anyone, anywhere. Sounds too hard does it? Well unfortunately if it does then you will become another statistic. You need to get out there, making aquaintances, meeting people who can put in a word or get your cv read. Networking. You MUST get the inside track. You must learn who's recruiting before or as it happens and don't give up, be persistent. That is the only way you will get the interview, because if you don't someone else will. That's making your own luck, sitting back at home bleating because you have spent too much money on stamps already is not. It's easy to get depressed by the seeming impossiblilty of securing a job and the one thing that is sure is that will drag you down and leave you resentful of the whole industry. Some people take a couple of years before they really understand the harsh reality of this industry. That's usually two years lost of experience building.
If it's all too much then you don't deserve the job. I wouldn't want to sit behind you as a pax if that was your attitude. Airlines want winners who bounce back from setbacks and keep a positive attitude............you'll need it if things go pearshaped at V1.
Chin up. Good (self made) luck.
PP
Join Date: Aug 2002
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In my limited experience, low hour fATPL holders that are taken on by the main carriers are of the aptitude/attitude that would most likely have been taken onto their sponsorship schemes had they applied (been on offer) at the time of commencing training.
If you are currently at university (planning to go to university) I would aim for ATPL sponsorship afterwards, because it has the advantage of a job at the end of it all. I applied to such a scheme at the start of a three year postgraduate research degree. I put my date of earliest employment as three years from date of application. I was taken through the aptitude tests and interviews, then told that I could not be given an offer so far into the future. But when I applied to the same company again two years later, I was given a one year defered offer; so I ended up starting the course three years from my initial application (as I had initially intended).
Good luck.
If you are currently at university (planning to go to university) I would aim for ATPL sponsorship afterwards, because it has the advantage of a job at the end of it all. I applied to such a scheme at the start of a three year postgraduate research degree. I put my date of earliest employment as three years from date of application. I was taken through the aptitude tests and interviews, then told that I could not be given an offer so far into the future. But when I applied to the same company again two years later, I was given a one year defered offer; so I ended up starting the course three years from my initial application (as I had initially intended).
Good luck.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Yes, but GS-Alpha
do remember that many low hours ATPL holders didn't qualify, for various reasons such as age, for sponsorship or else got turned down (perhaps lack of life experience, maturity etc.) and that is why they went down the self sponsored route. It is of course good advice to try to get sponsored before self sponsoring but I think that was taken as a given.
PP
do remember that many low hours ATPL holders didn't qualify, for various reasons such as age, for sponsorship or else got turned down (perhaps lack of life experience, maturity etc.) and that is why they went down the self sponsored route. It is of course good advice to try to get sponsored before self sponsoring but I think that was taken as a given.
PP
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Ryanair are taking on low-hour fATPL holders (as low as 160) as long as you can cough up the 18K for the type rating. I know the website says they're looking for type rated guys but they were taking low hour non-type rated guys up until a few months ago as far as my knowledge goes. easyJet are also taking the same through CTC (not to be confused with the ab initio courses being run by CTC-McAlpine).
I thought the Ryanair rocking up at Oxfords door was a bit of a one off and not part of an ongoing recruitment channel...?
WWW
WWW
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Why does the board show that the last posted reply was at one time but when I look the actual last post I read was at another - is it registering those who just look at the site as well?
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WWW
As I understand it, Ryans will continue to take on low hour people via their "cadetship", which I believe costs the cadet £20000.
40 were taken on last year, and it could well be up to 100 a year for the next five years, and there are plenty of people applying.
As I understand it, Ryans will continue to take on low hour people via their "cadetship", which I believe costs the cadet £20000.
40 were taken on last year, and it could well be up to 100 a year for the next five years, and there are plenty of people applying.
Grim Sleeper
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Listen:
I had 240 hours when I was employed by a UK scheduled airline on the B737.
You may hate me for saying this, but it quickly became just a job. I still have some great days when you can do the odd manually flown, visual approach, or the weather is fantastic over the Alps, or you get clear skies at night during a meteor shower , but otherwise IT IS A JOB. We have work problems, short-notice rostering changes, crap weather, nasty passengers, and terrible management.
I miss the days that I used to be able to fly for fun, and get a real kick out of it. Don't be in such a hurry to "be" an airline pilot, that you forget what it actually means to forfeit your love of flying to someone else's agenda.
Your time will come! But enjoy what you do now - you won't be able to later.
I had 240 hours when I was employed by a UK scheduled airline on the B737.
You may hate me for saying this, but it quickly became just a job. I still have some great days when you can do the odd manually flown, visual approach, or the weather is fantastic over the Alps, or you get clear skies at night during a meteor shower , but otherwise IT IS A JOB. We have work problems, short-notice rostering changes, crap weather, nasty passengers, and terrible management.
I miss the days that I used to be able to fly for fun, and get a real kick out of it. Don't be in such a hurry to "be" an airline pilot, that you forget what it actually means to forfeit your love of flying to someone else's agenda.
Your time will come! But enjoy what you do now - you won't be able to later.
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Slim20
Sorry but after being an instructor gimp for 3 1/2 years & a wage of £10k - (when the weather plays ball) , I still have the bills, no house and no airline wage. That "just a job" wage cannot come soon enough!
Sorry but after being an instructor gimp for 3 1/2 years & a wage of £10k - (when the weather plays ball) , I still have the bills, no house and no airline wage. That "just a job" wage cannot come soon enough!
Last edited by aardvark keeper; 13th Jan 2003 at 09:17.