Are things getting better?

[TogaToFLs]

Hi all,

I have been tracking the jobs market for some time and while I finish my ATPLs (and then at some point activate the rest of my training).

Looking on the pilot job websites, first there was an increase in the number of adverts for TR pilots followed by an increase in the time these adverts stay up for. Lately I have been observing the same pattern for Non-Type Rated pilots. All else being equal in terms of the war and economic context, are cadet/second officer positions about to free up as well? Or will Ryanair, Wizz and Smartlynx continue to be the only games in town for non-integrated/mpl cadets in the foreseeable future?

What does everyone think?

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Originally Posted by TogaToFLs

Hi all,

I have been tracking the jobs market for some time and while I finish my ATPLs (and then at some point activate the rest of my training).

Looking on the pilot job websites, first there was an increase in the number of adverts for TR pilots followed by an increase in the time these adverts stay up for. Lately I have been observing the same pattern for Non-Type Rated pilots. All else being equal in terms of the war and economic context, are cadet/second officer positions about to free up as well? Or will Ryanair, Wizz and Smartlynx continue to be the only games in town for non-integrated/mpl cadets in the foreseeable future?

What does everyone think?

Those absolutely are not the only games in town. Blue islands, Aurigny, Isle of Scilly Skybus, some entry level corporate jobs, DHL, Eastern, West Atlantic UK, TUI to name but a few who have taken low houred NTR pilots in the last 12 months. Less well publicised jobs sure and not always direct onto a shiny jet, but there are absolutely operators out there who will bond you for a TR - hopefully if the supply tightens there will be more. Often working in the office or ops room helps - a lot of folks have gotten a chance by being a known quantity internally and will be on the TR before an advert has even gone out.

Edit: I have personally known several wet CPL pilots get jobs recently, none were integrated and all were modular. All got a salary as an employee and a bonded TR from day 1. Modular is a fantastic training option not least because it can provide some very good networking opportunities as you train as well as being more flexible and cheaper - the candidate matters far more than the training route. What all did have in common was that they all had worked in ops/office roles or had impressed an already employed pilot to get an internal recommend.

Things would get better quicker and stay better if people didn’t shell out for their own Type Ratings or Line Training or accept contracts where they are unpaid but get “a hotel room and breakfast”.

Absolute best of luck in your search.

[JoeDarke]

Originally Posted by Speed_Trim_Fail

Those absolutely are not the only games in town. Blue islands, Aurigny, Isle of Scilly Skybus, some entry level corporate jobs, DHL, Eastern, West Atlantic UK, TUI to name but a few who have taken low houred NTR pilots in the last 12 months. Less well publicised jobs sure and not always direct onto a shiny jet, but there are absolutely operators out there who will bond you for a TR - hopefully if the supply tightens there will be more. Often working in the office or ops room helps - a lot of folks have gotten a chance by being a known quantity internally and will be on the TR before an advert has even gone out.

Edit: I have personally known several wet CPL pilots get jobs recently, none were integrated and all were modular. All got a salary as an employee and a bonded TR from day 1. Modular is a fantastic training option not least because it can provide some very good networking opportunities as you train as well as being more flexible and cheaper - the candidate matters far more than the training route. What all did have in common was that they all had worked in ops/office roles or had impressed an already employed pilot to get an internal recommend.

Things would get better quicker and stay better if people didn’t shell out for their own Type Ratings or Line Training or accept contracts where they are unpaid but get “a hotel room and breakfast”.

Absolute best of luck in your search.

Do you have any tips to how and where to look? A lot of job sites catering to pilots either seem to be outdated or they just don't get a lot of info. Is it better to check out individual operators from time to time?

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Originally Posted by JoeDarke

Do you have any tips to how and where to look? A lot of job sites catering to pilots either seem to be outdated or they just don't get a lot of info. Is it better to check out individual operators from time to time?

Look at individual operators, their websites, less well known/smaller operators and get in contact asking about possibility of ANY aviation role, some of the likes of RVL have some really interesting jobs like mission specialists. Take the time on a decent cover letter and a straightforward CV, spellcheck your emails and be a polite, keen new pilot; be persistent but not a pest. Emails out of the blue won’t always be answered but you never know.

Go through PJN and look at all the operators you can and where you’d like to work - the list is actually pretty long.

[TogaToFLs]

A few months on and looking from the outside things do seem to get better. Aircraft orders, increasing job adverts for non-type rated positions.

Is it time to expedite the ATPLs and the rest of the training to be ready for next years season?

[mrguy]

Originally Posted by TogaToFLs

A few months on and looking from the outside things do seem to get better. Aircraft orders, increasing job adverts for non-type rated positions.

Is it time to expedite the ATPLs and the rest of the training to be ready for next years season?

​​​​​​
I would say so, things definitely do seem to have picked up.

Where are you in your training? Many ATOs have 6-8 month waiting lists to start flying training. I would expect this to increase as instructors get airline jobs and the system gets clogged up with students from schools that have ceased trading.

[rudestuff]

Timing is everything. Finish too early and your ratings will need to be renewed and you'll be overlooked for 'fresher' pilots. Finish too late and you miss all the jobs. My suggestion? The ATPL clock is ticking so get an MEP, SEIR and SECPL. It's the cheapest way of getting the CPL and stopping the 36 month clock and starting the 7 year one. Now you can relax and gauge the market because you only have the MEIR short-course and MCC left to do. Those are the ones the Airlines are really interested in AND you can legitimately say you finished training last week.

[TogaToFLs]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Timing is everything. Finish too early and your ratings will need to be renewed and you'll be overlooked for 'fresher' pilots. Finish too late and you miss all the jobs. My suggestion? The ATPL clock is ticking so get an MEP, SEIR and SECPL. It's the cheapest way of getting the CPL and stopping the 36 month clock and starting the 7 year one. Now you can relax and gauge the market because you only have the MEIR short-course and MCC left to do. Those are the ones the Airlines are really interested in AND you can legitimately say you finished training last week.

​​​​​I don't think this will workout cheaper in my case because of where I am based, but I will check. The local ATOs aren't cheap and are more oriented towards integrated or modular "their" way. Doubt that it will workout cheaper than heading up to Bartolini and do everything in one go for 30k (plus the bonus of getting through to the RY assessment, for what that's worth...) I take the point about fresher license tho, def something to bear in mind.

But what would you say are the conditions precedent to activate the MCC? Because you need that to apply to most jobs, feels like a chicken and egg situation.

I was just thinking of taking 3/4 months off work next summer or find another job and get some gardening leave if they don't let me have it off to dedicate to this. Not sure how long it would take to do all those ratings through the short winter days and weekends.

Your insight is always helpful, thank you!