Personal opinion on the job market
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Personal opinion on the job market
Dear Folks
It's quite promising and I'm happy to see on the market that the aviation is gradually picking up, with loads of new jobs.
For people like me, it's still difficult due to the lack of hours and necessary experience, but it's nice to see this opportunities coming on.
I was just wondering, are you experienced pilots applying to, and getting those jobs, or, in other words, are these job openings able to absorb the amount of pilot still on the ground (even partially) ?
The reason I'm asking this is because it's pretty sad for me, and for other pilots in my situation not to have the right experience to apply, even though I would love and I'm open to fly almost anywhere.
Maybe pilots with their families already settled in a country are not willing to move somewhere else, with a probably worse salary, or in a country very far away. I can understand perfecly.
For instance, I understand a 50 years old pilot, with kids, living in Spain, not willing to go to Vietnam, when he worked in his country for 20 years with a better salary.
But on the other hand, it's a shame for youngsters, without kids, willing to move anywhere for a job, not to have the possibility even to be even considered.
When a I recently went for an interview, in a company with "low hours" requirements, there was so much competition. Pilots with thousands and thousands of hours.
They could have covered so many position, which me, and many people can't reach, and they are "fighting" (ironically) with us for the little amount of jobs we can afford.
I would go to those places where many pilots wouldn't, but unfortunately I don't have the experience for that !
It's so bloody hard to get the hours, unless going through a P2F scheme.
I appreciate your point of view.
It's quite promising and I'm happy to see on the market that the aviation is gradually picking up, with loads of new jobs.
For people like me, it's still difficult due to the lack of hours and necessary experience, but it's nice to see this opportunities coming on.
I was just wondering, are you experienced pilots applying to, and getting those jobs, or, in other words, are these job openings able to absorb the amount of pilot still on the ground (even partially) ?
The reason I'm asking this is because it's pretty sad for me, and for other pilots in my situation not to have the right experience to apply, even though I would love and I'm open to fly almost anywhere.
Maybe pilots with their families already settled in a country are not willing to move somewhere else, with a probably worse salary, or in a country very far away. I can understand perfecly.
For instance, I understand a 50 years old pilot, with kids, living in Spain, not willing to go to Vietnam, when he worked in his country for 20 years with a better salary.
But on the other hand, it's a shame for youngsters, without kids, willing to move anywhere for a job, not to have the possibility even to be even considered.
When a I recently went for an interview, in a company with "low hours" requirements, there was so much competition. Pilots with thousands and thousands of hours.
They could have covered so many position, which me, and many people can't reach, and they are "fighting" (ironically) with us for the little amount of jobs we can afford.
I would go to those places where many pilots wouldn't, but unfortunately I don't have the experience for that !
It's so bloody hard to get the hours, unless going through a P2F scheme.
I appreciate your point of view.
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The problem is that pilot shortage is not exists. Also, it didn't exist in glorious 2017-2019.
Airlines had shortage of experienced high-sjikked aircrews (Captains, TRIs), not a newbies.
And now, as pool of unemployed experienced pilots is still pretty big, what is a reason for airlines to prefer fresh graduates over experienced pilots?
It doesn't make sense, to "play a gentleman" and leave "low-hour" positions to newbies, when you need to pay bills.
As well as Vietnam (or any other company, hiring expats) - they need expat aircrew for two main reasons:
1) Fill the gap in manpower, during shortage (basically, someone need to fly new Airbus right now, while local pilots are still doing their tratining)
2) Hire high-skilled pilots, who can help them to maintain proper culture and standards in Flight Operations, teach local fligtcre, etc,
Again - why should they prefer European low-hour pilot over local low-hour pilot?
My expectation - ramp up in 2023, when companies will start grow again and pool of experienced pilots will dry up. But you anyway can expect hard competition with thousands of fresh guys and girls just from flight school.
Airlines had shortage of experienced high-sjikked aircrews (Captains, TRIs), not a newbies.
And now, as pool of unemployed experienced pilots is still pretty big, what is a reason for airlines to prefer fresh graduates over experienced pilots?
It doesn't make sense, to "play a gentleman" and leave "low-hour" positions to newbies, when you need to pay bills.
As well as Vietnam (or any other company, hiring expats) - they need expat aircrew for two main reasons:
1) Fill the gap in manpower, during shortage (basically, someone need to fly new Airbus right now, while local pilots are still doing their tratining)
2) Hire high-skilled pilots, who can help them to maintain proper culture and standards in Flight Operations, teach local fligtcre, etc,
Again - why should they prefer European low-hour pilot over local low-hour pilot?
My expectation - ramp up in 2023, when companies will start grow again and pool of experienced pilots will dry up. But you anyway can expect hard competition with thousands of fresh guys and girls just from flight school.
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Remember, everyone was at one point a freshly minted proud owner of a brand new cpl/ir.
Don’t be too down beat, the sad reality is that there is no god given right to walk into a jet job, despite what flight schools tell you. The reality is, many never make it.
Try instructing, bush flying, glider towing, buy a share in something different. All the above will make you a better pilot and will make you contacts in the industry.
Many people in 2008 took years to find work, some gave up. Unfortunately we are at the bottom of the cycle now.
But with being at the bottom, it means things are getting better. There are very positive signs of hiring,do the above, stay current and learn new skills, be different to the other 200hr applicants.
Also, the other killer mistake I have seen many make, is not cracking on with plan b. Get started now on not only trying to get an aviation job, but get a second backup career.
What if it takes you 5 years to get into a cockpit, better to have 5 years of decent earnings than 5 years doing menial jobs in the hope of getting into a cockpit. Start asap with plan b.
House prices wait for no one, if you do menial jobs whilst waiting, the way wages are in aviation you will have another 5-8 years on rubbish wages, so before you know it, 8-10 years have passed and you still do not own a home etc, so get a plan b now.
UAV.
Don’t be too down beat, the sad reality is that there is no god given right to walk into a jet job, despite what flight schools tell you. The reality is, many never make it.
Try instructing, bush flying, glider towing, buy a share in something different. All the above will make you a better pilot and will make you contacts in the industry.
Many people in 2008 took years to find work, some gave up. Unfortunately we are at the bottom of the cycle now.
But with being at the bottom, it means things are getting better. There are very positive signs of hiring,do the above, stay current and learn new skills, be different to the other 200hr applicants.
Also, the other killer mistake I have seen many make, is not cracking on with plan b. Get started now on not only trying to get an aviation job, but get a second backup career.
What if it takes you 5 years to get into a cockpit, better to have 5 years of decent earnings than 5 years doing menial jobs in the hope of getting into a cockpit. Start asap with plan b.
House prices wait for no one, if you do menial jobs whilst waiting, the way wages are in aviation you will have another 5-8 years on rubbish wages, so before you know it, 8-10 years have passed and you still do not own a home etc, so get a plan b now.
UAV.
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I've always though a good plan B would an electrician's course - you already know a little from your ATP exams and it's something you can pick up and drop as the market changes with few adverse effects. Plumbing too, maybe.
But a good cheap skill for low time pilots is another language. Outside the airline world, this is almost essential.
But a good cheap skill for low time pilots is another language. Outside the airline world, this is almost essential.
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Work hard as a sparky at Pimlico Plumbers in London and 100k is easily achievable. (Few friends from school do this…15 years of big earnings vs a stupid pilot…cumulatively the difference never comes back.)
Work hard to gain your ATPL and get a job, your reward is 100k in costs and a 17k a year job.
Plan B needs to be aviation. Then employers might get the message.
Work hard to gain your ATPL and get a job, your reward is 100k in costs and a 17k a year job.
Plan B needs to be aviation. Then employers might get the message.
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Thank you for your reply.
Even if I want to start being a "bush pilot", glider towing, etc. etc. they pretend maybe 1000h or more, and in my country they don't even pay you for this.
I completely agree with you, to have a plan b it's mandatory. The problem is to have a good plan b.
Because friends of mine who studied hard engineering, they have a good job in engineering; others studied hard medicine, and they have a good position as doctors.
We study hard aviation, to be everything but a pilot. And in order to pursue this career we are also requested to be, eventually, good engineers, good managers, good consultant, etc. etc., because being a delivery driver, or a cashier is not enough for the necessary revenue.
If it was difficult to become a good Manager for people who studied hard and for ages this matter, can you imagine for me, which I did a completely different stuff.
Maybe I could be good at, but I'm not qualified for, and nobody could hire me for that position.
Even if I want to start being a "bush pilot", glider towing, etc. etc. they pretend maybe 1000h or more, and in my country they don't even pay you for this.
I completely agree with you, to have a plan b it's mandatory. The problem is to have a good plan b.
Because friends of mine who studied hard engineering, they have a good job in engineering; others studied hard medicine, and they have a good position as doctors.
We study hard aviation, to be everything but a pilot. And in order to pursue this career we are also requested to be, eventually, good engineers, good managers, good consultant, etc. etc., because being a delivery driver, or a cashier is not enough for the necessary revenue.
If it was difficult to become a good Manager for people who studied hard and for ages this matter, can you imagine for me, which I did a completely different stuff.
Maybe I could be good at, but I'm not qualified for, and nobody could hire me for that position.
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Despite the COVID situation currently picking up, some borders closing and new variant Omicron?
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Why pay new pilots less when there are experienced ones out there who are likely to work for the same money though?
On one hand I would say wait and see how it plays out. It may end up being of little significance. Other variants have turned out to be less troublesome then initial worries. However, on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised it this has dented consumer confidence somewhat regardless of the long term outcome.
On one hand I would say wait and see how it plays out. It may end up being of little significance. Other variants have turned out to be less troublesome then initial worries. However, on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised it this has dented consumer confidence somewhat regardless of the long term outcome.
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I think it will all depend on summer 2022. Plus, I do hope by this time things will be way better COVID wise with way more people being vaccinated.
I tend to be optimistics despite current situation.
I tend to be optimistics despite current situation.
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Work hard as a sparky at Pimlico Plumbers in London and 100k is easily achievable. (Few friends from school do this…15 years of big earnings vs a stupid pilot…cumulatively the difference never comes back.)
Work hard to gain your ATPL and get a job, your reward is 100k in costs and a 17k a year job.
Plan B needs to be aviation. Then employers might get the message.
Work hard to gain your ATPL and get a job, your reward is 100k in costs and a 17k a year job.
Plan B needs to be aviation. Then employers might get the message.
Also most plumbers have wrecked knees and back by the age of 50.
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I’m 40 and qualified a few years ago but still looking for that first job, I run a business so at least I’m using my backup plan but still want to make it onto a flight deck if at all possible!
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