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Question Licencing

Old 18th Feb 2021, 16:02
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Question Licencing

Hi all,

Just got a quick question re licencing.

When an airliner asks candidates to have: "Full EASA ATPL licence (UK issued)".

What exactly does that mean? Is that an EASA licence or a UK CAA licence?

Only reason I ask, is because I am trying to see how many UK based airliners are recruiting with EASA or UK CAA licences. I start my ATPL's in June and I haven't decided which ATPL licence to go for (I only have the right to live and work in UK). Any advice on this matter would also be appreciated. Thanks!!
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 09:55
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They wouldn't ask that as there are no UK issued EASA licences anymore. Those that were issued are no longer EASA and are now considered UK CAA licences.

As for "Full ATPL" - that means an (actual) ATPL, not a CPL which is what you'll leave flight school with, and secure your first job with. You won't be able to get an ATPL until AFTER you've got your first airline FO job (you need to get a multi crew type rating and build the necessary flight time before you can take the ATPL skill test.)

As the UK are the good guys, they will recognise EASA licences for a while, so you could work for a UK airline with either. Hopefully common sense will prevail and there will be a conversion available at some point. In the mean time, if you intend to train and work in the UK then a CAA licence would be the logical choice.

Last edited by rudestuff; 19th Feb 2021 at 10:06.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 11:28
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As already stated, a Uk issued licence is no longer an EASA licence.
Definitely I would suggest to go for an EASA licence, and theereafter you can apply for a UK one, if the operator requires it.
To have a "non-EASA" licence is very limiting job-wise, in particular now.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 14:38
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I am leaning towards that right now but, UK CAA have not said they will recognise an EASA if it was issued before 31/12/2020. I think a lot of students (like myself) are petitioning UKCAA to change their minds on that but I highly doubt anything will change. Worst case scenario is invest tons of money for an EASA licence and then learn that I cant use or convert it. Time will tell.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 18:52
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It depends on the opportunities, if you are looking to work in UK, then a Uk licence is ok.
Expanding the context to EU, definitely EASA is better.
Considering the current situation, at the end of the pandemic, you might even look abroad for a job, you'll never know.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 07:16
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Hogos

that’s not correct. The U.K. CAA will only accept EASA licences issued before 31st December 2020 and in some cases 31st March 2021.

Anything after those dates they won’t accept.

Unfortunately the UKCAA have to stand firm and only accept EASA if recognition goes both ways after this mini transition they’ve put in place.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 09:22
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It would be extremely bad optics if UK CAA restricted ability to work for UK citizens, who would decide to come back home after 1st January 2022, and have previously held UK professional licence, that has been converted to EASA in the meantime.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 11:17
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Perhaps, but what difference is it for EU Citizens flying for U.K. airlines with U.K. licences who are unable to go and get an EASA licence now or in future? It has to work both ways or not at all.

That’s the point of a level playing field.

Last edited by FlyingGreek; 20th Feb 2021 at 11:38.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 09:19
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Are there any UK Airlines that require EASA Licence holders to hold a UK Issused Licence?
I know Ryanair require you to hold a IAA Issued Licence, not heard of it in the UK though.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 11:05
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Honestly, I don’t know the answer to that but I imagine so?

They will need to hold a U.K. issued licence at some point in future anyway to fly G reg.

Unless this is resolved there is going to be a considerable vacuum of experienced U.K. licenced pilots in future.

Any student will either have to choose an EASA to ensure they get a job with airlines who primarily recruit low hours (ryr wizz ezy etc) with no easy way to then obtain a U.K. licence without doing exams and skills tests etc and vice versa.

It’s far too big of a headache and would be made far simpler for all involved if it worked both ways, one way would cripple U.K. ATO’s/Examiners/Instructors.

Examiners/Instructors/Pilots/Engineers/ATO’s all have to put pressure on the idiots who caused this and they need to fix it.

The government are so obsessed with the fishing industry at the moment which accounts for a pittance in GDP compared to Aviation/Travel and these cretins are continually ignoring the pleas for help from all angles.

I’ve never in my life seen a transport minister say the things he has said over the past few months, he has plenty to answer for.

Sorry, rant over!
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 11:09
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If only there was an easy way to avoid all of this conundrum, such as staying a part of EASA in the first place...
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 11:45
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It is a mess, no dobut.
For those of us who managed to do a SOLI before brexit will be able to obtain a UK Licence after April, I am intugued who that will pan out.
We will see what happens once the dust settles.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 14:06
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FlyingGreek

Hypothetically, you’re a 25 year old aspiring pilot who is about to start their ATPL exams in a few months. You’re British and only have the right to work and live in the UK. You do not mind working anywhere in the UK or Europe.

Based on everything you know now, would you go for an EASA or a UKCAA licence?
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 15:13
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Right now, .....well according to yesterdays Sunday Times, there are approx 10,000 pilots out of work accross Europe, I would hunkerdown and wait a year or two see how things pan out. I would have thought starting ATPL's now is not a good idea.
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 15:27
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Common sense would dictate a U.K. licence but the world doesn’t seem to follow common sense!

U.K. airlines aren’t always the biggest recruiters of low hour pilots which is what makes things difficult! This may change as the budget airlines they usually recruit their pilots from are all EASA based/licensed.

The main airlines you can fly for within the U.K. on an EASA licence are Ryanair, Wizz and maybe Easyjet (I don’t know how Easyjet uses their fleet).

There’s a strong chance if you got an EASA Licence that you can eventually get a role with one of the above but what happens when you want to move to say a BA or Virgin? (Most pilots starting out is to get to the big flag carriers)

An EASA licence could be a faster way to flying a nice shiny jet but as a Brit you could be limited in where you can move to in future. Most European flag carriers require you to know the native language in addition to all the licensing/hours requirements.

Its a very difficult choice and it’s down to your preference in where you want to live or work from. Upsides and downsides to both.
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Old 23rd Feb 2021, 21:06
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Get an EASA Licence. A UK licence is of little value unless you can get a job with BA etc. Ryanair require an EASA licence and they are by far the biggest operator in the UK. Your no good to easyJet with just a UK licence as half their fleet is European registered. The present situation will not change, cooperation between EASA and the UK is just hopeful thinking by a select few.
Too many European operators based in the UK for me.
Checkout flight international for jobs, you need either a EASA or FAA licence for most.
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Old 24th Feb 2021, 07:01
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Not as cut and dry as you make it. Ryanair has already felt the pinch from the CAA for wet leasing their own aircraft back to RyanairUK to run specific flights. The consensus from the CAA is that they need more aircraft on the U.K. register to continue operating like that.

Ok so on Ryanair.....get a job with them and where do you go afterwards if you want to stay in the U.K.?

Jet2?
Virgin?
British Airways?
Logan air ?

All need a U.K. licence and will be a validation + ATPL exams + skills tests if you have an EASA licence.

Now if you want to move to Europe to a big carrier with your EASA licence (providing you even have the right to live and work in an EU country with your U.K. passport)

Lufthansa - have to be fluent in German

SAS - fluent in a Scandinavian language

Air France - fluent in french

KLM

aer lingus


Over 50% of the fleet is U.K. registered how are you any better with an EASA licence to Easyjet? Especially if you’re wanting to be based in the U.K., where do you think their G reg aircraft will be flying from and are based?

Perhaps there will be change with licensing, perhaps not. Pressure has already started growing with BALPA and U.K. Cargo airlines complaining about no level playing field in this Brexit deal but to say nothing will change is a rather narrow view.
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Old 24th Feb 2021, 07:20
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There has never been a level playing field. As you have said, most european carriers require crew to be fluent in their countries language, I cannot see that changing.

You only need to look at the fun and games with the Astrazenneca Vaccine to see how Europe feel about the UK, the lack of take up is insane.

As to pilots, well there are plenty of them in their own countries. EASA has already said the UK issused Licences are 3rd Country, that wont change.

Balpa are very good at making noise, not seen much change though.

UK Cargo companies, some are already moving their aricraft to the European Registry, removing the need for UK Crew.

Sadly this is just the start. It is a massive mess, as I said in an eailer post, there are 10,000 pilots unemployed over Europe, it will be a while before any cadets are hired, I would hang on a year or two to let the dust settle
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