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Keeping ME IR current or not

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Keeping ME IR current or not

Old 6th Jun 2020, 13:20
  #1 (permalink)  
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Smile Keeping ME IR current or not

Hi,

Have the rules changed regarding keeping an ME IR current?

I’ve been faithfully renewing it for many years and was wondering if there is any point bothering anymore.
This was mainly because I’ve been applying to airlines for interviews. But is there actually a requirement for you to have a valid ME IR from a CAA / EASA point of view in order to start a TR.

I would very much appreciate and politely and kindly request that anyone answering - can you answer with actual facts rather than opinions.

Many thanks.

What do most people do?
TOO-LOW-TERRAIN is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 16:03
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Originally Posted by TOO-LOW-TERRAIN View Post
But is there actually a requirement for you to have a valid ME IR from a CAA / EASA point of view in order to start a TR.
Short answer is yes. You won't be allowed on a type rating course without a valid ME-IR. Airlines request because they won't bother dealing with someone who can't hop on a course right away, especially if it's your first TR.
​​​
FCL.720.A(d)

​​​​​
(d) Multi-pilot aeroplanes. An applicant for the first type rating course for a multi-pilot aeroplane shall
be a student pilot currently undergoing training on an MPL training course or comply with the
following requirements:
(1) have at least 70 hours of flight experience as PIC on aeroplanes;
(2) hold a multi-engine IR(A);
(3) have passed the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations in accordance with this Part;
and
(4) except when the type rating course is combined with an MCC course:
(i) hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of an MCC course in aeroplanes
Edit: I'll add even this directly from my CAA as was a surprise to me recently. Maybe clarify somethings for others.

TR A320 is always with IR – full name of rating is TR A320/ IR

IR/ME this is different rating. You needed it to could start your A320 training, but you can using it only to General Aviation planes.



TR A320/ IR – you have to revalidate every year on SIM A320 to could flight on A320 .

IR/ME(SE) – you have to revalidate every year to could flight in IFR on GA planes.
Hawker400 is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 17:20
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I wish we had a licensing system similar to the FAA, but that would be too complicated for the bureaucrats in Köln and Brussels.
Banana Joe is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 23:36
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There has been a subtle amendment to FCL.720.A. which came into effect at the end of 2019. The wording of the reg was changed to say "an applicant for a type rating must have or have held a MEIR".

This suggests a lapsed MEIR is now acceptable. That said, many airline ops manuals will still prescribe a current MEIR to begin a TR and if it's your first TR, I have a feeling most will insist on you still being current before starting training
TommiW is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 05:03
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de minimus non curat lex
 
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The LST/LPC on the A320 includes the IR. Those IR skills are regarded specific to the MP type due to the level of automation permitted, where as for light twins, the IR might be regarded as generic skills with more hand flying.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 18:33
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Parkfell, apologies to be pedantic, but the LST on the A320 gives a MPA/IR (which as you correctly said is type specific) the IR on a piston twin is a SPA/IR.

There were a handful of old turbo-props around with only a basic alt and heading hold autopilots where all approaches has to be hand flown, and just because the approaches were hand flown it still didn't give SPA IR privileges, the demarkation is simply the fact one is multi crew one is single pilot. I think the key point on a MPA type some one is helping without half the workload.

So I agree the automation is a very valid practical reason why a MPA/IR shouldn't give full cross credit to a SPA/IR , as far as I remember an IR on a multi crew type has never inferred full cross credit to a SPA/IR irrespective of the automation level.



portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2020, 22:59
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Originally Posted by portsharbourflyer View Post

So I agree the automation is a very valid practical reason why a MPA/IR shouldn't give full cross credit to a SPA/IR , as far as I remember an IR on a multi crew type has never inferred full cross credit to a SPA/IR irrespective of the automation level.
I may be showing my age, but the UK CAA license (pre-JAA) was a standard Instrument Rating for all multi-engine types except A320, and later I think, B777.

Not quite as easy as the FAA system, but certainly better than now. And the way the Base Check/IRR was conducted, the skills required were completely transferrable.
awair is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 06:27
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Thanks Awair, the CAA system was just before my time, so I should have said I was referring I was referring to JAA and EASA. I wasn't aware of how the Pre-JAA system worked regard to the IRs. The more I learn about the CAA pre JAA system it appeared to have had many sensible attributes.
portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2020, 13:08
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At least with UK issued licences, so presumably all EASA, full cross crediting for a single crew single engine IR is allowed, and partial cross crediting for Single crew Multi-engine aircraft, subject to a few caveats regarding log book evidence of approaches, and that the SP IR renewal must be due in the same month that the MP IR is renewed. Cross crediting is also allowed for the UK IR(R).
excrab is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2020, 13:51
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No, you don`t need valid IR-ME to start first or initial multi pilot type rating under EASA rules, they have amended rules from december 2019

FCL.720.A Experience requirements and prerequisites for the issue of class or type ratings — aeroplanes

(b) Multi-pilot aeroplanes
Applicants for the issue of the first type rating course for a multi-pilot aeroplane shall be student pilots
currently undergoing training on an MPL training course or comply with the following requirements:
(1) have at least 70 hours of flight experience as PIC in aeroplanes;
(2) hold or have held a multi-engine IR(A);

This is copy and paste from official EASA-Part FCL
jakekenobi is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2020, 16:24
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Thanks jakekenobi, I didn't know there was an amendment. This is good for the guys on hold during the crisis.
Hawker400 is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:14
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So guys I didn't understand... I have a current Type rating on 320 with expired MEP/IR, but well below 500h
Will I be suitable for the companies or do I need to renew it? I am a bit confused
Eskere777 is online now  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 04:45
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There is no requirement to renew it. What companies want is a different matter.
rudestuff is online now  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 08:12
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The type rating (current or not) is all you need if you don't want to fly MEP aircraft. Your A320/IR is effectively a ME-IR.
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Banana Joe is online now  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 09:32
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In FCL.720.A the key phrase is "FIRST type rating"
rudestuff is online now  

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