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L3 Selection process question

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L3 Selection process question

Old 23rd Nov 2018, 22:09
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: London
Posts: 12
L3 Selection process question

Hi guys. Firstly, apologies if this is the wrong forum, can an Admin move it if required?

Long time lurker, but only signed up today to ask a question or 2, specifically regarding L3's (UK) application selection / PilApt

I have imagined there's 2 ways to get through Day 1 with the minimum stress

1) Purchase a copy of the software for PilApt (any preferred suppliers out there? Or conversely, those to avoid) a decent joystick (Logitech Extreme 3D seems popular) and the coloured number pad. Then practice, practice, practice every day until it becomes second nature
2) Go and acquire a PPL. I've previously had a taster lesson in a DA20 (which is responsible for all this!) I know that L3 like to train on DA20s so it seems like it would be relevant.

Clearly, one requires a larger investment than the other, but would it mean a greater chance of getting through PilApt, or even skipping it entirely and going straight to Day 2. Is this something that anyone here has done previously? Or does a PPL and a limited number of flight hours outside of training and tests not really add anything to an application?

I will add, that even if I never fly professionally, I have been setting aside funds to train for my PPL during 2019 regardless. But I wondered if it might be better to wait until I had the PPL before applying for any of L3s various programmes

Thanks for reading everyone.
Plain1 is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2018, 13:16
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Qatar
Posts: 19
First of all, I'm not sure if you're aware, but they have (or in the process of) replacing PILAPT with Cut-e assessments. Not sure of the exact differences, but just be wary of that. Secondly, the tests that made up PILAPT were designed in such a way that you need to be good with hand-eye coordination, dynamic and selective attention and memory etc. You don't need a ppl or aviation background specifically to clear it ( I went in with 0 hours and cleared it, twice). However getting a ppl can be a decision on its own factoring in what course you are going for (MPL will give you no credit hours but ATPL route might), and I imagine you won't be getting on any course until at least for next 6-7 months if you pass today, so it might certainly be a good idea, but don't hold up your selection process just to do ppl, go for the other way round.

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QRAviator is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:28
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 16
I'd say a PPL gives little to no advantage in the selection process. It does however help during the foundation phase of flying training as well as during Ground school. The PILAPT/Cut-e tests i would almost advise against getting. I have heard horror stories of someone who bought one of these aptitude tests and religiously practised on it. When they did selection they found that the joystick section gave different inputs to what he/she was used to and consequently found it pretty difficult!

Good Luck!
SAPEG3T is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2018, 19:40
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Echo Golf Papa Foxtrot
Posts: 153
It is correct that the the apptitude tests are now of Cute-e variant. There is a popular blog that goes into some details in what these tests entail.

I believe that understanding what youíll be up against will definitely alleviate stress. And of course, there is the mental maths tests as well thatís worth preparing for.

EGPF is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:16
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Sorry for my tardy response!

I had hoped to do an ATPL over an MPL course, but I suppose if you have the PPL its going to be doubling up on things. Which may not hurt.

I must admit I didn't know about the switch to CUT-E. So thanks for the pointer.

I've read Georges blog where he talks about it. So whilst I understand the angle of NOT practicing and then finding it different on the day, I'll probably look into getting a copy at some point in the near future. I would rather be over prepared after all

Further question if I may
With regards to Airline linked or White Tail programmes. I gather the latter don't give you type rating. Do any (if any!) take pilots with a so-called "Frozen ATPL" Georges blog suggests he went the White tail route, but it took many months before a suitable first placement was available to him. As he sat in the "type rating pool" waiting. (He even got a job to tide him over as he expected it to be a while)
Plain1 is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2018, 17:11
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 16
The industry is plentiful with jobs at the moment. Pilot George is not one of the best examples to look at for airline placement.

L3's Customer support team say that 4 months is indicative of how long cadets are waiting between completion of AQC and getting into an Airline in the current job market.

Currently taking whitetails: Wizz, Easyjet, BA, Ryanair. I know some have gone to TUI, Jet2 as well as TAP Portugal and Turkish in the future. With that said, it now seems most of the pool find their own jobs rather than L3 actively placing cadets.
SAPEG3T is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2018, 18:13
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Echo Golf Papa Foxtrot
Posts: 153
A ďfATPLĒ is the minimum entry qualification needed to go onto doing your type rating.

Placements really depend on the market and what airlines are hiring at the point of graduation.
EGPF is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2018, 19:02
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 227
Been a while since Iíve posted on PPRuNe! Glad youíve found my blog posts useful. I felt Iíd post to clear up your confusion.

An MPL route takes you from nothing to the right hand seat of that airlines aircraft. An Airline associated ATPL will do the same, I.e. easyjet ATPL or BA ATPL. A whitetail program provides you with an Frozen ATPL but you must then find a job with an airline after the fact.

At the moment the average wait to a job is about 6 months. In my case I landed the job offer in 2 months, but in total from graduation to the start of my type rating will be just over 6 months wait. So while Iíve sat in the type rating pool as such, I had a job offer there. This said, friends of mine had waited in L3ís placement pool for 6 months and very recently landed a job at the same airline I have and yet start their type ratings 2 weeks after me. I say this to just to highlight to you that whether you get the job straight away and wait for a Type rating date or wait a few months and get the job and type rating date soon after one another; there is still a wait.

This is by no means exclusive to the orange carrier either. Other friends of mine landed jobs with EuroWings within 4 months of graduation but even they are going to be waiting until Feb/March for their type ratings. Same story with TUI too, BA and Turkish Airlines too. Ultimately, unless you end up at Ryanair who very recently have had super quick turn arounds from selection to flying the line, you will be waiting a certain undetermined period of time to start that first job.

My best advice for anyone is to not go into to thing without having a fair grasp on the subject. The amount of people who seemingly start the courses with no knowledge of the ins-and-outs scares me given their, or more likely, their familyís investments.

My next comment would be to worry about the hurdles that are in front of you first before being concerned with the job prospect. Aviation continues to grow at fast rates - despite Brexit - so the jobs will be there for you should you do everything well. Heck, even if you slip up evidence suggests the airlines still consider you. In the end I was offered interviews with 3 major airlines despite a second series CPL.

Best of luck!
gbotley is offline  

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