Civil or Military?
Pilot Officer PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The military generally has few problems recruiting pilots (just keeping them), so I don't think this route is any more open than it was before. Even with a manning problem it is very difficult to train more pilots as there is little extra capacity in the system. If you want to be a pilot then the mil has always been one route to take, however, you have to want to be part of the mil and not just a pilot. It is not for everyone, and I don't think the current crisis will really change things.
Things I am sure will get better, but don't rely on the mil as a way in cause very litte has changed there.
Tonks
Things I am sure will get better, but don't rely on the mil as a way in cause very litte has changed there.
Tonks
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Neverland
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The military, the chances
Hi Guys, just been turned down for pilot scholarship at OASC having completed the whole process - passed all aptitudes and interview. I was kinda expecting it, because of the small amount of awards they give out. I was just wondering if anyone knows if it is any easier to go in as direct entrant. I know that this forum's audience is more civvy orientated, it's just that I can't seem to get that much information from the military forum. Just wondering if anyone out there can enlighten me on this. Thanks for your time guys,
TMA
TMA
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went through OASC. Very perculiar lot up there! I've got several friends who didnt get the scholarship but subsequently made it DE. Might as well give it a go. Dont forget the other services though. I was always going to join the air force but subsequently found out there was much more fun to be had in the Army Air Corps!
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thr number of scholarships awarded is considerably less than the number of direct entrants in any given year, but the selection process is more or less the same.
I assume you were told that you had reached the appropriate standard, but were unsuccessful due shortage of positions? That is not unusual. However, the RAF currently needs to recruit more pilots annually than it has for some time, so you may fare better as a direct entrant.
I assume you were told that you had reached the appropriate standard, but were unsuccessful due shortage of positions? That is not unusual. However, the RAF currently needs to recruit more pilots annually than it has for some time, so you may fare better as a direct entrant.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Debate: Commercial -vs- Military
Given the hypothetical situation that you had been offered:
A) A sponsorship opportunity with an airline
and
B) An offer of employment (as pilot) from the RAF/RN (12 years min service)
both at exactly the same point in time, which would you chose and why?
This is a question that some friends and myself have been discussing and has proved quite interesting!
Monkey
A) A sponsorship opportunity with an airline
and
B) An offer of employment (as pilot) from the RAF/RN (12 years min service)
both at exactly the same point in time, which would you chose and why?
This is a question that some friends and myself have been discussing and has proved quite interesting!
Monkey
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the benefit of hindsight I would go commercial. I do not regret my 12 years in the Fleet Air Arm but that's all over now. I am now in the situation where I am 40 years old with 5 years of commercial flying behind me and as an FO am on exactly equal terms with a young chap/ess of say 25 who has done the basic course and minimum hours at, say, Ryanair or easy and is already up for command.
When I joined the Navy, the airlines were not recruiting that much and most of my peers were mad keen on joining the RAF or Navy. I see Flying now as a Lifestyle/pay equation rather than just an exciting job. Much of the prestige of being a pilot has gone and so has a lot of the fun. Possibly it's just myself facing up to realities but if I had started flying commercially in my early 20s, I would be very wealthy by now and would have run more of my life on my own terms. Also, when I was a nipper there weren't that many opportunities to borrow 35-40K for what, as I remember, most folk saw as a 'pie in the sky' dream. Hope this helps.
When I joined the Navy, the airlines were not recruiting that much and most of my peers were mad keen on joining the RAF or Navy. I see Flying now as a Lifestyle/pay equation rather than just an exciting job. Much of the prestige of being a pilot has gone and so has a lot of the fun. Possibly it's just myself facing up to realities but if I had started flying commercially in my early 20s, I would be very wealthy by now and would have run more of my life on my own terms. Also, when I was a nipper there weren't that many opportunities to borrow 35-40K for what, as I remember, most folk saw as a 'pie in the sky' dream. Hope this helps.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If only you knew what you would end up flying it would be so easy.My view, for what it's worth, is give the mil a go. There are always options to depart if you don't like it or don't crack it. I did 12 years all flying and had a great time. Sure, there are always people who will tell you that "it's not like it used to be" But one things for sure - it's what you make it. The one thing the mil can offer you is flying with a bunch of mates doing stuff that you'll never match in civil life. Commercial isn't bad and it's a comfortable lifestyle but get the military fun flying out of your system now and then relax to take up commercial. IE get the best of both. Whatever you end up with best of luck.
Cookiebat
Cookiebat
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Moneyshot,
how long, on average, is spent at sea when you're in the fleet air arm? I realise it'll depend greatly on the a/c type, but a rough estimate would be handy. I take it you were based at Cauldrose/Yeovilton? I'd love the opportunity to fly fast jets or helicopters like the Lynx, but on the other hand I'm from a very close family and would like to be able to see them. Obviously the girlfriend wants me to do the commercial thing too!
Thanks for the replies folks!
Monkey
how long, on average, is spent at sea when you're in the fleet air arm? I realise it'll depend greatly on the a/c type, but a rough estimate would be handy. I take it you were based at Cauldrose/Yeovilton? I'd love the opportunity to fly fast jets or helicopters like the Lynx, but on the other hand I'm from a very close family and would like to be able to see them. Obviously the girlfriend wants me to do the commercial thing too!
Thanks for the replies folks!
Monkey
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: A PC!
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an ex-truckie from the RAF I can say that my time flying big jets for the RAF was a lot more fun than airline flying. However, if money was my only concern I would say go commercial as my brother earns much more of it than you could do in the military at the same age.
Moneyshot - rather be windsurfing????
Moneyshot - rather be windsurfing????
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Monkey
I can understand your concerns about the "family" thing, but (and this is going to sound very harsh), don't let what your girlfriend wants you to do influence any decisions on what you do ACTUALLY do.
I did and I've lived to regret it ever since. Family will always be there. Girlfriend may be, but it's not a guarantee.
I can understand your concerns about the "family" thing, but (and this is going to sound very harsh), don't let what your girlfriend wants you to do influence any decisions on what you do ACTUALLY do.
I did and I've lived to regret it ever since. Family will always be there. Girlfriend may be, but it's not a guarantee.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree with cloud69 about the girlfriend, just sit down with a few Beers and ask yourself which one you really want to do?
You could argue the pros and cons all day, all that matters is what you want.
You could argue the pros and cons all day, all that matters is what you want.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: uk(occasionally)
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mil every time! Its a great way of life for about 10 years - I don't think that there can be 1 person in 100 who went fast jets and wished they'd gone to the airlines! Obviously as mentioned you can't guarantee fast jet but if anytime you get sent rotary/multi and you don't like it you can leave. You probably won't though - cos by then you'll realise that both can be interesting, exciting and challenging (although not always!)
You can always do the easy-life, bring your pay home in a wheelbarrow, thing later.
One word of warning - if you go RN you will fly helos. Work out when you'd finish flying training and what jets the RN will have.
Never be satisfied with second best.
Good Luck
You can always do the easy-life, bring your pay home in a wheelbarrow, thing later.
One word of warning - if you go RN you will fly helos. Work out when you'd finish flying training and what jets the RN will have.
Never be satisfied with second best.
Good Luck
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: cambridge uk
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i am in exactly the same quandry, i have my civil license and close to two good jobs but theres a very loud shout in my head saying try the RAF, and this iswhat i wll do, i am nearly 23 so i have to get my skates on but i am gonna organise the filter interview and see if i can get myself up to Cranwell, if i am good enough and get in then i will see how i do if its for me etc etc....
I have always wanted to be a military pilot first and my motivation is unqeustionable but i am just very nervous and unsure about the whole thing, heard a lot of good stuff but far more bad. I mostly know what i am getting into but still unsure.
12 years is a long time but you have options
I only really want FJ
My family side is supportive, but the g/f isn't keen but you can't listen to her all the time.
Plus do you want to get to a point in your life and say "i wish i had done that"
I think to myself grow yourself some b@lls and do it
This isn't really advice more expressing my own personnal views and maybe they echo yours and it might help a little to say i am gonna have a good crack at it.
Its a tough decision
anyone care to add and comment
I have always wanted to be a military pilot first and my motivation is unqeustionable but i am just very nervous and unsure about the whole thing, heard a lot of good stuff but far more bad. I mostly know what i am getting into but still unsure.
12 years is a long time but you have options
I only really want FJ
My family side is supportive, but the g/f isn't keen but you can't listen to her all the time.
Plus do you want to get to a point in your life and say "i wish i had done that"
I think to myself grow yourself some b@lls and do it
This isn't really advice more expressing my own personnal views and maybe they echo yours and it might help a little to say i am gonna have a good crack at it.
Its a tough decision
anyone care to add and comment
May I suggest that if you want to 'fly' an aircraft then you have to go mil. Sure, if you want the money and to monitor George, go airlines.
How about doing both? Fly mil but freelance civvy?
Girlfriends are great but you can't beat the real thing!!
Then, if you are not sure which way to go then I strongly advise not to go mil. You simply will not 'make it' or be happy. I would suggest that by your early 20's, you'd be far too wise/tied down/committed/cynical to go mil:-)
How about doing both? Fly mil but freelance civvy?
Girlfriends are great but you can't beat the real thing!!
Then, if you are not sure which way to go then I strongly advise not to go mil. You simply will not 'make it' or be happy. I would suggest that by your early 20's, you'd be far too wise/tied down/committed/cynical to go mil:-)
I think that unless you are 100% commited to a military flying career from a fairly young age then you are unlikely to be selected over and above those excellent candidates whu have striven for years to acquire the kind of background needed to get in and get selected FJ stream.
Whilst in my UAS years we often used to speculate which would we take on a platter if offered - the BA cadetship or the RAF GDP offer. The only ones now In were the ones who had no hesitation and argued passionately for the Service career.
And may God favour them all in the coming battles.
WWW
Whilst in my UAS years we often used to speculate which would we take on a platter if offered - the BA cadetship or the RAF GDP offer. The only ones now In were the ones who had no hesitation and argued passionately for the Service career.
And may God favour them all in the coming battles.
WWW
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd echo what WWW has said about commitment and determination, and add that you need to be well aware of the very real possibility of dying in your military aeroplane. And most fatal accidents are on training sorties, not in war.
That said, there is no finer flying anywhere. It's a bit like the comparison between motorbikes and cars. Both will get you where you want to go, but one is a hell of a lot more fun. You can always buy a car later! The girlfriend never likes this plan...
It's no good, 10 years down the road, wishing you'd had a go when you were young. You can't do airlines and then go military, you can only do it the other way round.
I did it for 22 years and now fly big aeroplanes for a big company. My memories are terrific, in spite of some serious butt-clenching at times! I'm not sure that 27 years (now) of civilian flying would have given me the same...
That said, there is no finer flying anywhere. It's a bit like the comparison between motorbikes and cars. Both will get you where you want to go, but one is a hell of a lot more fun. You can always buy a car later! The girlfriend never likes this plan...
It's no good, 10 years down the road, wishing you'd had a go when you were young. You can't do airlines and then go military, you can only do it the other way round.
I did it for 22 years and now fly big aeroplanes for a big company. My memories are terrific, in spite of some serious butt-clenching at times! I'm not sure that 27 years (now) of civilian flying would have given me the same...
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you choose the military now, can you deal with having to kill whoever is the current bad egg?
Good luck if you can..... not my bag I think. If I wanted to be a politician's puppet, I'd've chosen a different career.
Good luck if you can..... not my bag I think. If I wanted to be a politician's puppet, I'd've chosen a different career.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excellent points folks.
Another question:
If you to go into mil rotary a/c, do the hours/training count towards a civilian fixed wing ATPL? Or are you basically only going to get anywhere with a civilian helicopter company doing the North Sea runs after you finish?
I'd still love to hear from anyone who's been in the Fleet Air Arm to say how long you actually spend at sea, cos i've done my Admiralty Interview Board and Aptitude Tests (passed both) and i'm currently awaiting a letter to say if I've made the final cut. I think this could be the pertinent point that influences my decision to accept the Navy (if they offer me a place) or go with the commercial route thats open to me.
I'm not going to let my girlfriend have too much influence, but I'm still quite family orientated and have this fear of something happening to one of em while i'm away at sea! On the other hand this'll be the only chance I get at fast jets (Harrier GR7/9 when the FA2 goes out of service in 2006, then JSF in 2012) or some great rotary flying. But then if I go commercial now I'll have more control over my life and get to the left seat quicker........My head is busting! But the advice given here is a great help and I'm thankful for it.
EM
Another question:
If you to go into mil rotary a/c, do the hours/training count towards a civilian fixed wing ATPL? Or are you basically only going to get anywhere with a civilian helicopter company doing the North Sea runs after you finish?
I'd still love to hear from anyone who's been in the Fleet Air Arm to say how long you actually spend at sea, cos i've done my Admiralty Interview Board and Aptitude Tests (passed both) and i'm currently awaiting a letter to say if I've made the final cut. I think this could be the pertinent point that influences my decision to accept the Navy (if they offer me a place) or go with the commercial route thats open to me.
I'm not going to let my girlfriend have too much influence, but I'm still quite family orientated and have this fear of something happening to one of em while i'm away at sea! On the other hand this'll be the only chance I get at fast jets (Harrier GR7/9 when the FA2 goes out of service in 2006, then JSF in 2012) or some great rotary flying. But then if I go commercial now I'll have more control over my life and get to the left seat quicker........My head is busting! But the advice given here is a great help and I'm thankful for it.
EM
