Civil or Military?
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Thought so! I bet if you signed up for only 12 years you might still only get to fly crappy aircraft- if any at all!! Just my opinion.
Who's going to fly the fast jets? The guys who have signed on for 16 or more years. Yes skill comes into it although by signing for more years you are also showing a larger commitment to the RAF!
Who's going to fly the fast jets? The guys who have signed on for 16 or more years. Yes skill comes into it although by signing for more years you are also showing a larger commitment to the RAF!
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Tarmach, your opinion is so erroneous that it is worthless as advice to Eagerbeaver on these pages.
Don't try and second guess the training system and likely postings with respect to whether you're a short timer, (12 yrs with an option to leave after 8) or a lifer,(Permanent Commission or PC, 16 yrs reckonable service or 38th B'day whichever is latest). The simple fact of life these days is that if you are good enough to get thru' selection, IOT, and 3-4 yrs flying trg the RAF will send you wherever they think your talents will best serve the service. If you're able to cope with single seat fj then you'll go there regardless of your percieved commitment. They will aim to ammortize your £3-£4m trg costs ( get their value for money )in the 2-3 3yr tours left available to them.
In response to the original question and as someone with 16 yrs' service I'd advise EB (and anyone else) to go for it wholeheartedly. There have been various comments on this topic but the one that is most accurate is that you can go from fighters to a bus but never the other way round. Give it a go, get thru' and have the time of your professional and social life. Alternatively you could always just wonder 'what if'.
Someone also said earlier in this thread that 16 yrs is a long time and if you are 17/18 then I suppose so, but it seems like yesterday that I pitched up at Cranwell. Time flies when you're having a hoot.
Regards SP
Don't try and second guess the training system and likely postings with respect to whether you're a short timer, (12 yrs with an option to leave after 8) or a lifer,(Permanent Commission or PC, 16 yrs reckonable service or 38th B'day whichever is latest). The simple fact of life these days is that if you are good enough to get thru' selection, IOT, and 3-4 yrs flying trg the RAF will send you wherever they think your talents will best serve the service. If you're able to cope with single seat fj then you'll go there regardless of your percieved commitment. They will aim to ammortize your £3-£4m trg costs ( get their value for money )in the 2-3 3yr tours left available to them.
In response to the original question and as someone with 16 yrs' service I'd advise EB (and anyone else) to go for it wholeheartedly. There have been various comments on this topic but the one that is most accurate is that you can go from fighters to a bus but never the other way round. Give it a go, get thru' and have the time of your professional and social life. Alternatively you could always just wonder 'what if'.
Someone also said earlier in this thread that 16 yrs is a long time and if you are 17/18 then I suppose so, but it seems like yesterday that I pitched up at Cranwell. Time flies when you're having a hoot.
Regards SP
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Well said SP
Tarmach's opinions are either complete guess's (uneducated) or (s)he is taking the p!ss.
The length of commission has nothing to do with where you are "streamed".
The funniest suggestion was that a 12 yearist may only get to fly "crappy" aircraft "if any at all" - What complete bolox. An RAF pilot is streamed after EFT/IOT and the stream depends totally on ability/suitability.
Eagerbeaver, if you have been swayed by any of these comments then completely disregard them.
'stude
Tarmach's opinions are either complete guess's (uneducated) or (s)he is taking the p!ss.
The length of commission has nothing to do with where you are "streamed".
The funniest suggestion was that a 12 yearist may only get to fly "crappy" aircraft "if any at all" - What complete bolox. An RAF pilot is streamed after EFT/IOT and the stream depends totally on ability/suitability.
Eagerbeaver, if you have been swayed by any of these comments then completely disregard them.
'stude
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Do it!
I've just had 16 years as a RAF pilot and it's been a gas. I've done flying that Civilian pilots can only dream about, and the mates I've made and the times we've had have been second to none.
I am leaving at the end of a 16 year Permanent Comission, and there will be some regrets. My reasons for leaving are to get more stability and better renumeration. But I definately did the right thing.
[This message has been edited by Dan Winterland (edited 18 March 2001).]
I've just had 16 years as a RAF pilot and it's been a gas. I've done flying that Civilian pilots can only dream about, and the mates I've made and the times we've had have been second to none.
I am leaving at the end of a 16 year Permanent Comission, and there will be some regrets. My reasons for leaving are to get more stability and better renumeration. But I definately did the right thing.
[This message has been edited by Dan Winterland (edited 18 March 2001).]
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N: what I meant was there are now only permanent commissions, with an option to leave at 12 with a gratuity in place of a pension. If you are stupid enough to say you are going to PVR (ie get out earlier) then you won't be put on bad aircraft: you'll be out on the street beacuse the RAF will not waste the time and money on you. Short service commissions for pilots ARE NOT NOW GIVEN.
Seriously give it a go: if you are unsure, go to a UAS or get experience through a good liason officer who will arrange a day at a base for you. If the organistion is not for you, all well and fine, but be honest with people, or you'll have no respect from your colleagues.
Streaming is based on ability for role, and depending also on what vacancies there are at the time. Later aircraft allocation too is based on the same thing.
Yes, you could be a civilian pilot without doing the RAF and it is not IMHO boring, just different, and you could fly Pitts/Yaks in your spare time, but give yourself the chance to experience what you could do in the RAF, so that you won't regrat decisions to reject the military route.
bob: similar, just BA goes skyward more rapidly!
Seriously give it a go: if you are unsure, go to a UAS or get experience through a good liason officer who will arrange a day at a base for you. If the organistion is not for you, all well and fine, but be honest with people, or you'll have no respect from your colleagues.
Streaming is based on ability for role, and depending also on what vacancies there are at the time. Later aircraft allocation too is based on the same thing.
Yes, you could be a civilian pilot without doing the RAF and it is not IMHO boring, just different, and you could fly Pitts/Yaks in your spare time, but give yourself the chance to experience what you could do in the RAF, so that you won't regrat decisions to reject the military route.
bob: similar, just BA goes skyward more rapidly!
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RAF career = varied, lots of fun, lots of fantastic similarly-minded colleagues, lots of time away (depending on aircraft type, etc), some risk of death, reasonable pay.
Commercial career = not so varied, fun (at times), some similarly minded colleagues (but you might only meet up with them every few months!), more time at home (depending on airline!), very little risk of death, much better pay (& discounted travel?).
If age & circumstances permit, go RAF first, then commercial later. If you want the money, then the RAF just can't compete. Good luck for whichever one you go for - if it's the RAF, look at http://www.timc.clara.net/raf.htm
for OASC tips for when you go!
Commercial career = not so varied, fun (at times), some similarly minded colleagues (but you might only meet up with them every few months!), more time at home (depending on airline!), very little risk of death, much better pay (& discounted travel?).
If age & circumstances permit, go RAF first, then commercial later. If you want the money, then the RAF just can't compete. Good luck for whichever one you go for - if it's the RAF, look at http://www.timc.clara.net/raf.htm
for OASC tips for when you go!
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To the lads and lasses making a decision about future careers, read the threads on other forums to see what some of your prospective work collegues might be like.
Personally, I have just arrived at my OCU after about 3 years of training and a ten month stint in a UAS. What a ride! The training is seriously tough work at times, but those trips that go well just print a smile on your face! You don't get to put training bombs down onto a range from 250' and 420kts from a hawk, solo, on a BA cadetship! But, then again, you don't have Orderly Officer duties over a weekend either. For a young bloke, the lifestyle is brilliant. Problems you may want to think about are long distance relationships and trouble getting time off. One day you could be hanging in your straps in a jet upside down over Wales trying to shoot your mate down as a sidewinder growls in your ear! Life in the RAF rocks and not enough people shout about it.
Good luck in your decision ladies and gents
Personally, I have just arrived at my OCU after about 3 years of training and a ten month stint in a UAS. What a ride! The training is seriously tough work at times, but those trips that go well just print a smile on your face! You don't get to put training bombs down onto a range from 250' and 420kts from a hawk, solo, on a BA cadetship! But, then again, you don't have Orderly Officer duties over a weekend either. For a young bloke, the lifestyle is brilliant. Problems you may want to think about are long distance relationships and trouble getting time off. One day you could be hanging in your straps in a jet upside down over Wales trying to shoot your mate down as a sidewinder growls in your ear! Life in the RAF rocks and not enough people shout about it.
Good luck in your decision ladies and gents
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Yes.But just a shade over 9 years ago.E mail me direct if you think I might be able to answer whatever it is you need.Failing that try the Mil forum and see if anyone there can help you. 
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Military/Air Force Training
In the aftermath of September 11th is the military going to be the only way one can get sponsorship and continue to fly.
On a related point as mentioned elsewhere - what is going to happen to people who are massively in debt - no job, no prospects, and no money - worse than that - massive debts!!!!
On a related point as mentioned elsewhere - what is going to happen to people who are massively in debt - no job, no prospects, and no money - worse than that - massive debts!!!!
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1) No
2) Many will persevere and eventually get a flying job somehow. Whether it will pay enough to pay off the debt is another question. Others will leave flying and pay the debt off from a ground-based job. Someone will win the lottery and never have to worry about debt again.
2) Many will persevere and eventually get a flying job somehow. Whether it will pay enough to pay off the debt is another question. Others will leave flying and pay the debt off from a ground-based job. Someone will win the lottery and never have to worry about debt again.
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The military offers the ultimate in flying, and is open only to those who show particularly strong aptitude and ability, who are willing to devote the best years of their life to a service. To view it as a 'port of last call' is entirely incorrect, and the merest sniff of such an attitude would prevent anyone passing the selection procedure.
[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: Pub User ]
[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: Pub User ]
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If you view the military as a quick backdoor to get or continue your licences because other routes have dried up then you are sadly mistaken. I understand the situation at the moment but if you walk into the recruiting office (or flying training) with that attitude you will be out on your ear. However... if you are considering the military as a flying career then it is second to none with some amazing opportunities and experiences available. Try it you might like it!!
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TOTALLY AGREE PUB AS A SPROG STARTING OUT IN MY FLYING CAREER IN THE MILITARY I FIND IT QUITE OFFENSIVE THAT PEOPLE WOULD VIEW THE MILITARY AS A "LAST CHANCE SALOON". HOWEVER I DO HAVE THE GREATEST OF SYMPATHY FOR YOU AND OTHERS IN THIS DIFFICULT SITUATION 
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RIPBulldog, please don't shout. It's very rude and unnecessary.
You are quite right, however, in that the services can not be the choice of last resort for the Wannabe. Any individual with such an attitude would, I hope, never get as far as an interview. I suspect, though, that the original post was simply suggesting that the military were the only employers currently offering paid-for flying training, which is probably correct.
As an ex-RAF pilot with 22 years service and as a current airline pilot, I'd be less jingoistic about who offers the ultimate flying experience. Horses for courses, people. One man's Harrier dreamshot is another's sick bag from hell!
You are quite right, however, in that the services can not be the choice of last resort for the Wannabe. Any individual with such an attitude would, I hope, never get as far as an interview. I suspect, though, that the original post was simply suggesting that the military were the only employers currently offering paid-for flying training, which is probably correct.
As an ex-RAF pilot with 22 years service and as a current airline pilot, I'd be less jingoistic about who offers the ultimate flying experience. Horses for courses, people. One man's Harrier dreamshot is another's sick bag from hell!
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Port of last call?? Would you prefer flying a 747 straight and level for 6 hours and looking at weather / radio babble or screaming along at 600mph in a Tornadoe at 200ft??? How could you!
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as a former Military truckie and Fast Jet sim instructor - stuff the fast jets, the fun is on the truckie fleet. Who else sends you somewhere nice at taxpayers expense and even provides the women (cabin crew) for the party?
The only people who think fast jets are fun are 1) those who have never done it and 2) those doing it but too ashamed to admit that the lifestyle stinks.
However, whatever the fleet the military can throw a bloody good party. Officers have the best balls!
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: moggie ]
The only people who think fast jets are fun are 1) those who have never done it and 2) those doing it but too ashamed to admit that the lifestyle stinks.
However, whatever the fleet the military can throw a bloody good party. Officers have the best balls!
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: moggie ]
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We seem to have gone off on a tangent here - what other way except the military, in the short term, is going to be sponsoring or training pilots for none existent jobs?
Obviously, long term, there will be requirements as always, together with opportunities for people to fill them. What about now???
No one has even attempted to address the situation regarding the debts people will have as well as no opportunity to work.
Is this a topic that is toohot to handle?
Obviously, long term, there will be requirements as always, together with opportunities for people to fill them. What about now???
No one has even attempted to address the situation regarding the debts people will have as well as no opportunity to work.
Is this a topic that is toohot to handle?