BCFT ATPL - is this dream making me stupid / chances of employment
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BCFT ATPL - is this dream making me stupid / chances of employment
Good afternoon ladies and gents
I am, like many others very close to the early stages of starting the modular 0-frozen ATPL course. My choice would be BCFT (Bournemouth).
I have had to build up a seperate career to get to the stage where finances allow this course (only just). I will have no further budget for instructor course, extra hour building or type ratings.
Therefore, with the above in mind, am I stupid to spend £60,000 +?
What are my chances of employment with only 200 or so flying hours?
Should someone put me out of my misery already?
The only reason for my already low morale is that I am finding it hard to find any positive information on the web and other forums.
Thanks for your help
Alex
I am, like many others very close to the early stages of starting the modular 0-frozen ATPL course. My choice would be BCFT (Bournemouth).
I have had to build up a seperate career to get to the stage where finances allow this course (only just). I will have no further budget for instructor course, extra hour building or type ratings.
Therefore, with the above in mind, am I stupid to spend £60,000 +?
What are my chances of employment with only 200 or so flying hours?
Should someone put me out of my misery already?
The only reason for my already low morale is that I am finding it hard to find any positive information on the web and other forums.
Thanks for your help
Alex
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BCFT
Hi Alex,
The aviation industry is always gong to be a big risk and low hours don't help though airlines are recruiting and there is serious movement at the moment so now is the best time to start.
I do not know a lot about BCFT though cost of living in Bournemouth is not cheap and flying in the UK over winter can be difficult and delay things. Not a bad way to go would be to do your PPL, NR and Hour building in the USA then complete your ATPLs while you hour build with Pro Pilot or Bristol Ground school and then go to DFAS or another flight training organisation this is similar to what I did though I got my PPL quite a few years ago before i continued my training. The CPL/ME/IR at DFAS is about £16,000 with current exchange rates including accommodation it takes two months and all of it is done on a DA42 i can't fault it and it was a great experience for me.
Another issue with flight training is you may budget for the exact cost of the course though I myself have spent quite bit more than I had planned to so always think of a fall back for financing.
All the best if you have any questions PM I will reply as soon as I can.
The aviation industry is always gong to be a big risk and low hours don't help though airlines are recruiting and there is serious movement at the moment so now is the best time to start.
I do not know a lot about BCFT though cost of living in Bournemouth is not cheap and flying in the UK over winter can be difficult and delay things. Not a bad way to go would be to do your PPL, NR and Hour building in the USA then complete your ATPLs while you hour build with Pro Pilot or Bristol Ground school and then go to DFAS or another flight training organisation this is similar to what I did though I got my PPL quite a few years ago before i continued my training. The CPL/ME/IR at DFAS is about £16,000 with current exchange rates including accommodation it takes two months and all of it is done on a DA42 i can't fault it and it was a great experience for me.
Another issue with flight training is you may budget for the exact cost of the course though I myself have spent quite bit more than I had planned to so always think of a fall back for financing.
All the best if you have any questions PM I will reply as soon as I can.
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Well, looking at your username (presumed 1991 birth) you've done well to save £60k in a few years, given the way the industry is going you may be better off in your current career for the long run. As you say it is a lot of money, therefore any decision to invest it into aviation is massive.
Firstly, have you considered the cadet schemes, BA FPP, Aer Lingus, West Atlantic and (maybe) Virgin Atlantic? All of these you can do without much cost. Alternatively you could save for a couple of more years and have a punt at Easyjet, BA Cityflyer or perhaps as a CTC "Whitetail" course.
If I was in your position and didn't want/couldn't get into a cadet scheme, I'd go part-time instructing around my current job. By all accounts, if you go modular you need to know people and as an instructor you'll get to know a lot of people.
Firstly, have you considered the cadet schemes, BA FPP, Aer Lingus, West Atlantic and (maybe) Virgin Atlantic? All of these you can do without much cost. Alternatively you could save for a couple of more years and have a punt at Easyjet, BA Cityflyer or perhaps as a CTC "Whitetail" course.
If I was in your position and didn't want/couldn't get into a cadet scheme, I'd go part-time instructing around my current job. By all accounts, if you go modular you need to know people and as an instructor you'll get to know a lot of people.
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Hmmm. Before I get slated, yes I trained the modular route. Right. I would NOT go to a small(ish) school / modular route. I qualified in 2008, and only landed my first job this past January. Between 2008 and 2015 I saw countless CTC and Oxford people go straight to Jets, both the FR right hand seat, and countless airlines. With less than 200 hours. Hours won't be your issue. Contacts, deals between airlines and training providers, and a type-rating will be the issue. I can honestly say, now that I am flying, that if I could go back in time I would NOT do it again.
The incidental costs of food, accommodation, petrol, lost earnings due time off work, exam fees, partial re-tests, licence issue, IR renewals after 12 months, type rating renewals after job hunting..... Well they are eye watering. I could have been mortgage free by now. I am mortgage free, because I am STILL renting. And as my airline employs me part-time, summer only (permanent) I cannot qualify for a mortgage. Yes, you read correctly. As an employed Airbus F/O, I earn too LITTLE to get a mortgage.
Final thought: ask as many pilots as possible if they would recommend the career to their children. Prepare to be surprised.
The incidental costs of food, accommodation, petrol, lost earnings due time off work, exam fees, partial re-tests, licence issue, IR renewals after 12 months, type rating renewals after job hunting..... Well they are eye watering. I could have been mortgage free by now. I am mortgage free, because I am STILL renting. And as my airline employs me part-time, summer only (permanent) I cannot qualify for a mortgage. Yes, you read correctly. As an employed Airbus F/O, I earn too LITTLE to get a mortgage.
Final thought: ask as many pilots as possible if they would recommend the career to their children. Prepare to be surprised.
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There are Small and well known schools with airline contacts! The main problem is that too many pilots don't do a proper research before the training (integrated ones because they just think I am with the right school and I am paying for it, and then the modulars who just choose the chepeast schools)! Moreover, you need to work your ladder slowly, too many pilots apply to Ryanair and wait doing nothing more!
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I can absolutely echo the sentiments of beardedclam, like them I qualified in 2008 from a reasonable modular school and since then I have seen CTC, OAA and FTE grads get the jobs ahead of me, would I be flying now if I had gone to an integrated school? Simple answer is I don’t know.
Unlike beardedclam I am not flying for an airline (full time or otherwise), before training I was an engineer and I have fallen back on my old career as Plan B to provide for my family while looking for that elusive first break, Plan B is rapidly becoming Plan A.
If at all possible, work longer and save more to afford CTC or OAA. If you must go modular please save up enough money to afford all flying and theory training, flying and theory exams plus a contingency of about 15% to allow for fluctuations in training costs (they only ever fluctuate in one direction), extra training time and partial or complete skills test failure. Also factor in costs for MCC and JOC plus housing and food costs etc during training.
There are companies who will finance type ratings for low hours boys and girls (Flybe and Jet2 for instance) and I believe BCFT are recognised as an approved training organisation with Flybe but the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet do require new joiners to finance their own rating, however with a job offer in the bag you may get a loan for training costs.
This can all change during your training, a couple weeks ago I revalidated my MEIR in the sim and the examiner told me that he was at a recent Royal Aeronautical Society presentation where he got talking to a senior Ryanair employee (I won’t mention his name or position) who told him that Ryanair are in big trouble for pilots and there is serious consideration up high within the company to fund cadet type ratings. Just a rumour and I’ve no proof but this is a rumour network.
If you do go ahead with training then keep lines of communication open with your current employer as you may well need to return to work after training while searching for flying employment. Ideally keep working and keep money rolling in while you're training, many of the modular schools are willing to phase training flights flexibly around your work commitments.
As mentioned before, apply for all the mentored cadet schemes that you can find, these are invariably integrated courses and you will be required to fund all or at least almost all of the training costs yourself with no guarantee that there will be a job available when you qualify.
Its a huge gamble with an eye watering amount of your money laid down as the stake, as with any gamble there are absolutely no guarantees and you should never gamble with cash that you cannot afford to lose.
Whatever you choose to do, I wish you luck.
Unlike beardedclam I am not flying for an airline (full time or otherwise), before training I was an engineer and I have fallen back on my old career as Plan B to provide for my family while looking for that elusive first break, Plan B is rapidly becoming Plan A.
If at all possible, work longer and save more to afford CTC or OAA. If you must go modular please save up enough money to afford all flying and theory training, flying and theory exams plus a contingency of about 15% to allow for fluctuations in training costs (they only ever fluctuate in one direction), extra training time and partial or complete skills test failure. Also factor in costs for MCC and JOC plus housing and food costs etc during training.
There are companies who will finance type ratings for low hours boys and girls (Flybe and Jet2 for instance) and I believe BCFT are recognised as an approved training organisation with Flybe but the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet do require new joiners to finance their own rating, however with a job offer in the bag you may get a loan for training costs.
This can all change during your training, a couple weeks ago I revalidated my MEIR in the sim and the examiner told me that he was at a recent Royal Aeronautical Society presentation where he got talking to a senior Ryanair employee (I won’t mention his name or position) who told him that Ryanair are in big trouble for pilots and there is serious consideration up high within the company to fund cadet type ratings. Just a rumour and I’ve no proof but this is a rumour network.
If you do go ahead with training then keep lines of communication open with your current employer as you may well need to return to work after training while searching for flying employment. Ideally keep working and keep money rolling in while you're training, many of the modular schools are willing to phase training flights flexibly around your work commitments.
As mentioned before, apply for all the mentored cadet schemes that you can find, these are invariably integrated courses and you will be required to fund all or at least almost all of the training costs yourself with no guarantee that there will be a job available when you qualify.
Its a huge gamble with an eye watering amount of your money laid down as the stake, as with any gamble there are absolutely no guarantees and you should never gamble with cash that you cannot afford to lose.
Whatever you choose to do, I wish you luck.
Last edited by magicmick; 16th Oct 2015 at 10:20. Reason: additional info
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I also did my ATPL at BCFT not that long ago and now a captain on the A380.
I didn't pay for a rating or to fly either.
I also taught at an integrated school for a while and know plenty of people who don't have flying jobs so at the end of the day it comes down to your motivation, determination and personal circumstances.
Good luck with your choices, I still love my job and the people I work with.
I didn't pay for a rating or to fly either.
I also taught at an integrated school for a while and know plenty of people who don't have flying jobs so at the end of the day it comes down to your motivation, determination and personal circumstances.
Good luck with your choices, I still love my job and the people I work with.
