Sector change into Aviation
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Sector change into Aviation
Hi,
My query is a bit general so I hope relevent-ish to this forum. I'm a business change specialist / project manager that desperately wants to transfer my skills and do a similar role in the aviation field. e.g business transformation for an airline / or similar etc. However I find myself in the cycle of apply = "any aviation experience"? - "no" - "sorry", and so on.
I'm therefore finding it hard to actually get the experience i need to get on the right path (even volunteering). So I'm taking shot and wondering whether anyone who hangs out on PPrune may have suggestions or contacts that might be useful for me? (it's all about the contacts!).
I should say, I'm learning to fly too so am not a complete novice (though it's early days!).
Any help or suggestions greatly welcomed.
My query is a bit general so I hope relevent-ish to this forum. I'm a business change specialist / project manager that desperately wants to transfer my skills and do a similar role in the aviation field. e.g business transformation for an airline / or similar etc. However I find myself in the cycle of apply = "any aviation experience"? - "no" - "sorry", and so on.
I'm therefore finding it hard to actually get the experience i need to get on the right path (even volunteering). So I'm taking shot and wondering whether anyone who hangs out on PPrune may have suggestions or contacts that might be useful for me? (it's all about the contacts!).
I should say, I'm learning to fly too so am not a complete novice (though it's early days!).
Any help or suggestions greatly welcomed.
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Keep applying, keep flying.
Nice to see someone on here looking for a career in aviation outside of the cockpit!
Having said that, the mods might move your post because you're not a desperate fATPL wannabe
Assume you can commute to the likes of gatwick? (as I do from Central London each week), there's occasionally some very interesting opportunities down that way.
Get your foot in the door somewhere, I expect you may need to take a salary drop though.
Wouldn't suggest finding contacts on pprune though...although I say I'm a business consultant with an fATPL, I am might really just be a 12 year old with a copy of MS flight sim.
You'll find plenty of contacts at your flying club...
Good luck.
Nice to see someone on here looking for a career in aviation outside of the cockpit!
Having said that, the mods might move your post because you're not a desperate fATPL wannabe
Assume you can commute to the likes of gatwick? (as I do from Central London each week), there's occasionally some very interesting opportunities down that way.
Get your foot in the door somewhere, I expect you may need to take a salary drop though.
Wouldn't suggest finding contacts on pprune though...although I say I'm a business consultant with an fATPL, I am might really just be a 12 year old with a copy of MS flight sim.
You'll find plenty of contacts at your flying club...
Good luck.
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What in the name of bejeezus is a "business transformation specialist", and what role exactly do you envisage they would fulfil at an airline?
Pardon my rudeness but I have vague memories of a completely deluded idiot with a very similar job title back at my old airline in Scotland, who attempted to "transform" the company and bankrupted it in the process, by advising the management to borrow millions of quid to buy some very expensive new turboprops, without having sufficient charter work lined up for them
Pardon my rudeness but I have vague memories of a completely deluded idiot with a very similar job title back at my old airline in Scotland, who attempted to "transform" the company and bankrupted it in the process, by advising the management to borrow millions of quid to buy some very expensive new turboprops, without having sufficient charter work lined up for them
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Oh yeah - and expect to get a lot of that.
Unless your job involves sitting watching an autopilot for 6 hours a day, some may consider that you have nothing worthwhile to contribute to an airline business.
Pilots are like zebras, they have stripes so they can easily recognise their own kind, see anything without stripes and they tend to get a bit scared and confused and run away in fear of being eaten by something higher up the food chain.
Unless your job involves sitting watching an autopilot for 6 hours a day, some may consider that you have nothing worthwhile to contribute to an airline business.
Pilots are like zebras, they have stripes so they can easily recognise their own kind, see anything without stripes and they tend to get a bit scared and confused and run away in fear of being eaten by something higher up the food chain.
Last edited by clunk1001; 6th Sep 2014 at 16:27.
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Thanks for your helpful response clunk 1001. Yeah I can easily get to Gatwick and will Also speak to my flying school to see if they have any suggestions.
LukeST, your rudeness is excused. I've also met many deluded idiots in my career, including pilots. I'm just broad minded enough not to tar everyone with the same brush and to understand the value of other career choices outside of my own
LukeST, your rudeness is excused. I've also met many deluded idiots in my career, including pilots. I'm just broad minded enough not to tar everyone with the same brush and to understand the value of other career choices outside of my own
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I'm curious, what is a business change specialist? Is it someone who oversees a change in technique/organisation? So when distilled, someone with a whip, clipboard and a stopwatch?
Try looking into firms that take on graduates, they may have leads for you.
Try looking into firms that take on graduates, they may have leads for you.
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Excellent, now we have a "business consultant" and a "business transformation specialist", patting each other on the back and making jokes about being "higher up the food chain", and don't worry about the grumpy old 20 year 10,000 hour captain over there in the corner ...
WHILE HANGING OUT ON A PILOT WANNABES FORUM
I've got to tell you clunk, it's not the zebra-predators that scare us dumb pilots, it's when we see all those vultures circling overhead. Hopefully you'll have a long and successful piloting career without being on the receiving end of too many "consultants".
Anyway you guys obviously know best so good luck with your career choices.
PS you also mysteriously failed to answer my question, which a few other people have asked, what IS a business change specialist and what exactly do they do
WHILE HANGING OUT ON A PILOT WANNABES FORUM
I've got to tell you clunk, it's not the zebra-predators that scare us dumb pilots, it's when we see all those vultures circling overhead. Hopefully you'll have a long and successful piloting career without being on the receiving end of too many "consultants".
Anyway you guys obviously know best so good luck with your career choices.
PS you also mysteriously failed to answer my question, which a few other people have asked, what IS a business change specialist and what exactly do they do
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LukeST, I don't recall making any jokes about being higher up the food chain? I'm just a young woman interested in aviation looking for career advice - simple as that.
A business transformation manager is really a general term for working in internal operations. It can be very varied project type work looking at anything from projects on how to help an organisation operate more efficiently, how to expand it, create better vfm and just general project management on anything in between. It's not sector specific, everywhere has internal operations and with my flying and my long term 'geek interest' in aviation I'm just exploring opportunities to do that type work in an aviation type sector.
To be honest, I'm willing to be flexible and see what type of project work in aviation might be out there to get a foot in the door so to speak.
Redsnail, thanks for the suggestion on the graduate organisations, I'll look into that.
Ps..just in case I need to justify why I'm posting this here (coz I feel I'm getting a bit of attack
) I'm on here due to my private flying, so thought I'd take a shot and ask a more general question too - sorry if I was wrong to do so people.
A business transformation manager is really a general term for working in internal operations. It can be very varied project type work looking at anything from projects on how to help an organisation operate more efficiently, how to expand it, create better vfm and just general project management on anything in between. It's not sector specific, everywhere has internal operations and with my flying and my long term 'geek interest' in aviation I'm just exploring opportunities to do that type work in an aviation type sector.
To be honest, I'm willing to be flexible and see what type of project work in aviation might be out there to get a foot in the door so to speak.
Redsnail, thanks for the suggestion on the graduate organisations, I'll look into that.
Ps..just in case I need to justify why I'm posting this here (coz I feel I'm getting a bit of attack
) I'm on here due to my private flying, so thought I'd take a shot and ask a more general question too - sorry if I was wrong to do so people.
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Fair call Amber, please accept my apologies for being a smart-ass. Didn't mean to come off so hyper-aggressive sounding.
The problem you'll find is that aviation management is actually not too dissimilar from piloting - it's a niche business which requires a lot of sector specific knowledge. And someone who doesn't already have that airline specific experience can actually be more of a hindrance than a help, I wasn't kidding about how things went down in the old airline
The other problem you'll have is that a small company just doesn't have specific "project managers" or departments or the kind of people you'll need to speak to - if you're lucky they have an office manager / sales person, and a couple of operations staff. Larger companies, yeah, but they are the ones who are going to require that "previous experience".
If I was you I'd simply try to join a company as an ops person or whatever, observe for a few weeks or months how things get done in airline offices, and then be that helpful person who goes to the ops manager with a list of bright ideas of how things could be improved - and by the way this is my background - perhaps you would like me to take on that project?
The problem you'll find is that aviation management is actually not too dissimilar from piloting - it's a niche business which requires a lot of sector specific knowledge. And someone who doesn't already have that airline specific experience can actually be more of a hindrance than a help, I wasn't kidding about how things went down in the old airline
The other problem you'll have is that a small company just doesn't have specific "project managers" or departments or the kind of people you'll need to speak to - if you're lucky they have an office manager / sales person, and a couple of operations staff. Larger companies, yeah, but they are the ones who are going to require that "previous experience".
If I was you I'd simply try to join a company as an ops person or whatever, observe for a few weeks or months how things get done in airline offices, and then be that helpful person who goes to the ops manager with a list of bright ideas of how things could be improved - and by the way this is my background - perhaps you would like me to take on that project?
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No probs LukeST
Thanks for the advice, yes I'd be more than happy to do as you suggest. It could even lead me into an area of work I've not even considered. I guess my current task is to just keep applying for many many roles, try to get a foot in the door and work hard at it.
I won't give up
Thanks for the advice, yes I'd be more than happy to do as you suggest. It could even lead me into an area of work I've not even considered. I guess my current task is to just keep applying for many many roles, try to get a foot in the door and work hard at it.
I won't give up
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Wow - didn't think you'd be so easily baited Luke 
But it demonstrates my point - I've been flying for 22 years (hence why I'm on this forum), and in that time have worked on and off within aviation (including the ugly big grey building at gatwick), and one consistency in that time is that many pilots (not all) tend to have little respect (bordering on contempt even), often through lack of knowledge, for parts of the business not physically involved in operating the aircraft. Often, this attitude is reciprocated, and you can have a serious (and unnecessary) divide in the organisation.
Perhaps I'm wrong and your airline has a utopian harmony of mutual respect between airline management and crew?
Personally I see this divide getting worse in the industry. This lack of respect from the business is particularly visible when it comes to the current decline in pilot Ts&Cs, whilst the Ts&Cs of airline management are generally going up.
Anyway, my post was really just to demonstrate that divide - no offence intended.
But it demonstrates my point - I've been flying for 22 years (hence why I'm on this forum), and in that time have worked on and off within aviation (including the ugly big grey building at gatwick), and one consistency in that time is that many pilots (not all) tend to have little respect (bordering on contempt even), often through lack of knowledge, for parts of the business not physically involved in operating the aircraft. Often, this attitude is reciprocated, and you can have a serious (and unnecessary) divide in the organisation.
Perhaps I'm wrong and your airline has a utopian harmony of mutual respect between airline management and crew?
Personally I see this divide getting worse in the industry. This lack of respect from the business is particularly visible when it comes to the current decline in pilot Ts&Cs, whilst the Ts&Cs of airline management are generally going up.
Anyway, my post was really just to demonstrate that divide - no offence intended.
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I worked in ops for a 10 aircraft company. Start up LCC with big backers.
Most of the top managers were new to aviation. The CEO hadn't even worked in aviation before. Lower level managers spent hours trying to talk upper management out of making bad decisions. Usually with little luck.
Pilots are mostly wary of managers because when they start sniffing around, things change and not for the better!
Most of the top managers were new to aviation. The CEO hadn't even worked in aviation before. Lower level managers spent hours trying to talk upper management out of making bad decisions. Usually with little luck.
Pilots are mostly wary of managers because when they start sniffing around, things change and not for the better!
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A good way in is via cabin crew. Many of the business type roles are advertised internally only or internally first.
I did it and six months later was able to move into a analyst role based on experience from my previous life in the city. It's a gamble as all things are but the experience you get operating out on the line is invaluable and gives you a foothold in the business from which you can then move up.
I did it and six months later was able to move into a analyst role based on experience from my previous life in the city. It's a gamble as all things are but the experience you get operating out on the line is invaluable and gives you a foothold in the business from which you can then move up.
