PTF - Has it gone this bad?
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PTF - Has it gone this bad?
I saw an ad recently for a ptf scheme.
I dont believe in these schemes but I sent an email to find out more to see what was on offer.
These were the prices quoted for 500 hours.
Type Rating + Base Check + 500 Hours
B737 CL € 80.000
B737 NG € 94.000
A320 € 95.000
Are there seriously people out there now willing to pay over 100k when you consider living expenses etc?
This sounds absurd to me but I want to know if people are happy to do this.
I dont believe in these schemes but I sent an email to find out more to see what was on offer.
These were the prices quoted for 500 hours.
Type Rating + Base Check + 500 Hours
B737 CL € 80.000
B737 NG € 94.000
A320 € 95.000
Are there seriously people out there now willing to pay over 100k when you consider living expenses etc?
This sounds absurd to me but I want to know if people are happy to do this.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Absolutely rediculous.
The ones who are willing to pay this are totally retarded.
When I started my training those programs costed like 35-45K. Already crazy as hell, but now its even more horrible. Where is it going?
PAY to work is even words then worlds craziest Sicknesses. SLAVERY.
Better spend that money on buy an Cessna. Have some fun on it. Rent it out also.
Or get C206 endorsement. And go to Africa. Some Bushflying. Then slowly try to get TP job somewhere and build up career in a much more attractive way then paying a
load of money and after 500 hours being Jobless again.
Or try to get your way in a different way. Ground OPS and grow from there up into the cockpit. Great experience which will be useful in your career as an pilot.
The ones who are willing to pay this are totally retarded.
When I started my training those programs costed like 35-45K. Already crazy as hell, but now its even more horrible. Where is it going?
PAY to work is even words then worlds craziest Sicknesses. SLAVERY.
Better spend that money on buy an Cessna. Have some fun on it. Rent it out also.
Or get C206 endorsement. And go to Africa. Some Bushflying. Then slowly try to get TP job somewhere and build up career in a much more attractive way then paying a
load of money and after 500 hours being Jobless again.Or try to get your way in a different way. Ground OPS and grow from there up into the cockpit. Great experience which will be useful in your career as an pilot.
Join Date: Mar 2013
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The End!!!
I'm trying to think of another profession/trade where you not only pay for all your training, but then have to pay to work as well.
I'm finding it hard ... perhaps someone can think of one?
And yes I know you pay to go to college for a degree but a degree in say history could get you a job as a teacher or a librarian and open many other doors.
There should be a name and shame campaign for any airline that takes part in this PTF SCAM.
I'm finding it hard ... perhaps someone can think of one?
And yes I know you pay to go to college for a degree but a degree in say history could get you a job as a teacher or a librarian and open many other doors.
There should be a name and shame campaign for any airline that takes part in this PTF SCAM.
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You do pay in the legal world - but after qualifying you get a decent sum and perks.
This is the only profession where you pay 100k + and need a miracle and lots of luck to make 30k back......
If I had my chance all over again - MPL is the way forward......
The amounts quoted above are AFTER tax!
This is the only profession where you pay 100k + and need a miracle and lots of luck to make 30k back......
If I had my chance all over again - MPL is the way forward......
The amounts quoted above are AFTER tax!
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I saved a lot of money for my initial training by not doing my training in my home country ( The Netherlands ).
I have done integrated training in Lithuania. At the end I received my EASA F ATPL CPL MEP SEP IR + MCC for about 80-100K euro's less then in NL.That incl. Living expenses.
At the moment I am in training in European Airline, not for FO but other job, and they mentioned already to me that chances are big that I can upgrade also pretty quick to FO. And then Without paying for TR.
Of course I have to make it through training now. But when that all goes well, I work in an European company with normal T&C's.
Besides that the job I will do is really interesting and great experience which I will take with me in my backpack for my later career in this company as a Pilot.
Just be creative and you will find your way in via a normal road. Without paying a load of money for some P2F program in some strange country where good T&C's are not known.
I always refused these programs. If I had the money I could have jumped in a program . Because I received an offer to fly for European Company , but TR was very expensive. Though I would get Permanent contract, but earning back that TR with the low Salary which was offered is just impossible. I would have had to live under the bridge.
And another Option which was offered to me for TR+LT 500 hours and then another 2YR contract after LT I also refused.
Just stand your ground and refuse these programs. Then you will find something. But you have to accept another job maybe first and work your way into the company. And as I mentioned before. You can learn a lot this way. It is NEVER a waste of time.
Appreciate the opportunities you get. Also when it is not immediately a job as FO.
I am very happy with the chances I get with this company I most probably will work in.
I have done integrated training in Lithuania. At the end I received my EASA F ATPL CPL MEP SEP IR + MCC for about 80-100K euro's less then in NL.That incl. Living expenses.
At the moment I am in training in European Airline, not for FO but other job, and they mentioned already to me that chances are big that I can upgrade also pretty quick to FO. And then Without paying for TR.
Of course I have to make it through training now. But when that all goes well, I work in an European company with normal T&C's.
Besides that the job I will do is really interesting and great experience which I will take with me in my backpack for my later career in this company as a Pilot.
Just be creative and you will find your way in via a normal road. Without paying a
load of money for some P2F program in some strange country where good T&C's are not known.I always refused these programs. If I had the money I could have jumped in a program . Because I received an offer to fly for European Company , but TR was very expensive. Though I would get Permanent contract, but earning back that TR with the low Salary which was offered is just impossible. I would have had to live under the bridge.
And another Option which was offered to me for TR+LT 500 hours and then another 2YR contract after LT I also refused.
Just stand your ground and refuse these programs. Then you will find something. But you have to accept another job maybe first and work your way into the company. And as I mentioned before. You can learn a lot this way. It is NEVER a waste of time.
Appreciate the opportunities you get. Also when it is not immediately a job as FO.
I am very happy with the chances I get with this company I most probably will work in.
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P40....,
Inspiring post. Well done.
Will you please clarified how did you work out that your saving was 80-100k eur for education when the cost of education is, as far as i know, 80-100k eur?
Thanks
Now when you mention integrated-modular, I remember not so long ago, pprune was all about those two ways, which is better, what to chuse, which one gives you better chances... with the time subject changed to p2f.
Inspiring post. Well done.
Will you please clarified how did you work out that your saving was 80-100k eur for education when the cost of education is, as far as i know, 80-100k eur?
Thanks
Now when you mention integrated-modular, I remember not so long ago, pprune was all about those two ways, which is better, what to chuse, which one gives you better chances... with the time subject changed to p2f.
Last edited by sascha410; 8th Jun 2014 at 10:44. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Well saving that money was easy. Because with 80-100K you are not there yet. From day one you are supposed to pay interest over the loan you have at that moment. That will accumulate till the moment you finish.
Then you need money for living expenses. All these things plus training costs makes you having a loan of around 150-170K.
I did my training Integrated in Lithuania where I received at the end an EASA License. Training and living costs are a lot lower, so I saved a huge amount of money. That is how.
About Modular and Integrated. Opinions are widely spread. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Per person different what is best for him or her.
Well , I go back to study, because have some exams to do. Otherwise also no job for me
.
Haha. No I will pass.
. And then have a great opportunity of a good career within one respected airline in Europe.
Then you need money for living expenses. All these things plus training costs makes you having a loan of around 150-170K.
I did my training Integrated in Lithuania where I received at the end an EASA License. Training and living costs are a lot lower, so I saved a huge amount of money. That is how.
About Modular and Integrated. Opinions are widely spread. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Per person different what is best for him or her.
Well , I go back to study, because have some exams to do. Otherwise also no job for me
. Haha. No I will pass.
. And then have a great opportunity of a good career within one respected airline in Europe.
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Well I am just saying, that you can stay jobless, or you try to get in via another door. If it all will work out, that time will tell. Otherwise I picked a great experience, which will be useful later on.
And I would not be the first who gone this way and found his seat via this road.
And no we dont have to pay for our TYPE. This airline is a very respectable one.
Seriously. Why reacting like that Bob and Just?
You could also respect me for my choice NOT to accept those peep P2F programs. Otherwise I could have been flying already straight after my graduation. But I said no, because that is extremely respectless to my fellow pilot colleagues.
Glass is always Empty for you guys.
And I would not be the first who gone this way and found his seat via this road.
And no we dont have to pay for our TYPE. This airline is a very respectable one.
Seriously. Why reacting like that Bob and Just?
You could also respect me for my choice NOT to accept those peep P2F programs. Otherwise I could have been flying already straight after my graduation. But I said no, because that is extremely respectless to my fellow pilot colleagues.
Glass is always Empty for you guys.
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You had a choice when you signed up for an overrated expensive FTO.
You knew in advance that your debt will be around 150-170K Euro's.
Myself I couldnt live with that idea.
Yes aftercare via for example CTC or Oxfort is much better then the school I did. Better connections with Airlines like Monarch, BA, Easy, FR etc.
But I think in this way. Yes aftercare isnt the best. They offered me 2 P2F programs. But 1 one thing is for sure. My debt doesnt hurt me like when you have that HUGE debt.
I made my choice.
Because I can imagine that when you have paid already so much money, that you try to earn it back ASAP. And to make more chance is maybe to Pay to make those hours.
For me there aint that huge pressure. Yes I want to fly, but sometimes you have to get to your goal via an diversion. Because especially right now the market is not that great.And as mentioned. I see this as a great experience which will never be a waste of time. I am not to arrogant to do this job. I appreciate this opportunity. Much better then do one of those P2F scams.
And as I said. The company where I most probably start working does treat their employees with respect. Offer good contracts.
You knew in advance that your debt will be around 150-170K Euro's.
Myself I couldnt live with that idea.
Yes aftercare via for example CTC or Oxfort is much better then the school I did. Better connections with Airlines like Monarch, BA, Easy, FR etc.
But I think in this way. Yes aftercare isnt the best. They offered me 2 P2F programs. But 1 one thing is for sure. My debt doesnt hurt me like when you have that HUGE debt.
I made my choice.
Because I can imagine that when you have paid already so much money, that you try to earn it back ASAP. And to make more chance is maybe to Pay to make those hours.
For me there aint that huge pressure. Yes I want to fly, but sometimes you have to get to your goal via an diversion. Because especially right now the market is not that great.And as mentioned. I see this as a great experience which will never be a waste of time. I am not to arrogant to do this job. I appreciate this opportunity. Much better then do one of those P2F scams.
And as I said. The company where I most probably start working does treat their employees with respect. Offer good contracts.
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Originally Posted by justagigolo77
Less than 8years ago, I earned a college degree, paid for my CPL-MIFR in Canada for under $60k CANADIAN dollars (€30k) after saving a significant portion and working while I completed it all and living a decent life and finished with <$5k debt. I am a Canadian
Vice-versa applies to Europe...
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Exactly FS.
You are totally right.
What the great benefit was to do my training in Lithuania? Pretty much. I saved like 80-100K Euro's. I think that is pretty relevant.
JJ Your tone to me is quiet disrespectful. Sounds like you are so great. Work already for many years. Showing off with your Type Ratings etc.
And me as a NEWBEE in the market chooses not to go the ugly way, namely the P2F crap. You have easy talking. In USA and Canada that P2F ghost is not as big as in the rest of the world.
World had quiet much changed. Especially in EU.
And I am still happy with the choices I made. No regrets at all.
You are totally right.
What the great benefit was to do my training in Lithuania? Pretty much. I saved like 80-100K Euro's. I think that is pretty relevant.
JJ Your tone to me is quiet disrespectful. Sounds like you are so great. Work already for many years. Showing off with your Type Ratings etc.
And me as a NEWBEE in the market chooses not to go the ugly way, namely the P2F crap. You have easy talking. In USA and Canada that P2F ghost is not as big as in the rest of the world.
World had quiet much changed. Especially in EU.
And I am still happy with the choices I made. No regrets at all.
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well there are thousands of pilots from all over the world unemployed and they have already fell for the 60,000 dollars for their cpl/ir/me and they are unable to find a job and they see jobs for a320 pilots , so they lay down another 20 grand for the rating (including ticket/motel/visa etc to usa) and then they are into aviation 80 grand and still cant find a job since they don't have 500 hours on their type. so they beg their parents for another 80 grand for P2F but what they don't realize is that if they were to pay for that time why on earth would the next employer want to pay them ? think about it...if you owned an airline and you see pilots willing to pay for FO jobs would you pay a salary ? of course not ! you too would charge and there are no shortage of takers. for 95000 euros you could buy 5 c150s and start your own flight school ! the flight schools are promoting a "pilot shortage" and the airlines are their enablers. when i see "wanted a320 first officers" cpl ir me, a320 type, 1000 hours total, 100 multi .then i will believe they need pilots until then you will keep seeing wanted FO a320 ATPL 2000 total 500 hours on type....
