Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Wannabes Forums > Interviews, jobs & sponsorship
Reload this Page >

500 HOURS LT not much help

Interviews, jobs & sponsorship The forum where interviews, job offers and selection criteria can be discussed and exchanged.

500 HOURS LT not much help

Old 10th Aug 2013, 09:19
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exclamation 500 HOURS LT not much help

Hey guys,

Thought I would share my experience with this 500 hours LT game

I have just finished a program of 500 hours LT on the B737-800 I am not much further on than when I left flight school.(For sure a competent operator of the B737 now but that's about it)

Graduated at the end of 2011 with my fATPL & IR, decided I wanted to fly the jets as that's what really interested me from the beginning! , so went and did the TR on 737NG with a TRTO in Miami, then waited for 6 months to start the LT.

Have my 500 hours on type now, plus my initial training so 750TT

However it does not seem to get employers excited!! I have e-mailed my resume to every 737 operator in the world using Wikipedia list of 737 operators and have had a handful of replies! & they only state that I don't meet there experience required!!

Anyhow its my own risk, and I have used all my money up now, I don't even have enough to keep current!! luckily I have landed a normal job to keep up with the repayments on the loan

I have been the test rat here, so anyone thinking of 500 hours LT, yes it's good experience, but....not likely to get you employed earning $10,000 PCM thereafter.

Not sure where to go from here, any advice???
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 10:39
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: In Space
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Go away troll
B737900er is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 10:44
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You need a good 2500hrs on type to have any chance in the current jobs market. I suggest go and repeat your P2F package another 4 times.

Your current situation shouldn't come as any great surprise.
Torque Tonight is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 11:01
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Go away troll
Sorry you feel this way, but why do you feel I can't share my experience and ask for advice
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 11:07
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: elsewhere
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Christ, if someone with 500 hours on type can't a land job, looks like its gonna be a hard slog for me going the GA route

Last edited by Flyboy1987; 10th Aug 2013 at 11:08.
Flyboy1987 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 12:31
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At risk of stating the obvious, if you thought 500hrs makes you an experienced pilot who can walk into any job, you've just had your wakeup call. 500hrs is next to nothing I'm afraid.
Torque Tonight is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 12:37
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TorqueTonight - Sure I am aware that 500 hours does not make me eligible to walk in to any job.

I did however think that it would put me in a better position than when I left my flight school, but it seems to be the same or worse!

I just don't understand where all these pilots flying the thousands of jets that take off & land every day got there experience from to be able to do what they do. HOW DO YOU GET THERE!!

This aviation game is like a war I am never going to win! all I want to do is fly
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 12:59
  #8 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,569
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Leon1983, as you've just found out there's a huge difference in "paying for 500 hours" and getting a job.
You may have added 500 hours to your logbook but is it viewed as experience by other operators? Obviously not.
BTW - why won't the company whom you bought the 500 hours from employ you? When you've answered that, then you may have some insight into your predicament.

How did I get to the left seat of a jet? By working my way up through many jobs. Note, I said jobs.
redsnail is online now  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 13:14
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up

Redsnail - it is nice to hear from a current Captain, in my previous airline I got along with everyone really well and was liked by the majority of the Captains.

The reason I didn't get kept on was because there where more first officer's waiting to start the LT and they had no vacancy for me.

There where regular first officers at the airline but again they had 3 or 4 thousand hours.

I was told that buying 500 hours is just the way things are done now & you will get a job, but it's not the case.

I just want to add that I did a good job for the airline and got positive feedback from LFI's during my time there, I am a competent operator of the B737NG.

what would you recommend be the best way forward for me now? given that I don't have any money left.

Also Redsnail, if you don't mind would be able to post your journey to the Left seat? nothing too personal, just a time line of events??

Last edited by Leon1983; 10th Aug 2013 at 14:14.
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 13:38
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Airlines that take "cadet" pilots usually have a significant input into their training and early development. At this level, few are interested in anyone that falls outside of this criteria.

Experienced pilots are likely to have significant and relevant experience from either a military or commercial background. It is here that "500 hours on type" as a minimum level of relevant experience is sometimes stipulated.

For an airline that is a TRTO, providing a type rating and subsequent line training isn't particularly problematic, and in the case of low experienced pilots "cadets" most would regard it as vital.

Even when recruiting experienced pilots, the background and acquisition of relevant experience is an important factor. There is a great deal of resource, and companies can (and are) choosy about the type of experience they are looking for. There are factors that can be real "red flags" when it comes to background. I am afraid that a lot of these "opportunities" fall into that category.

Quality companies expect quality candidates. They want training that falls within their own definition of quality (and that is usually their own, or a company they acknowledge as providing same.) Less quality companies, are likely to be deriving income from this form of training, rather than seeking employees who have already availed themselves of it. Obviously, this is a reality you are now becoming aware of.
Bealzebub is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 13:49
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up

Beazlebub - you make a nice point in your message, & before I even started training for my PPL this is exactly what I thought of the industry.

However somewhere along the way in my Commercial training I started to convince myself that I could be the pilot in the smart uniform walking through the airport, about to fly a 50 million dollar aircraft somewhere .

The reality of what you wrote Beazle is so true, I guess I just thought "everything would be ok in the end"

So what should I do now? just be happy for the time I did get to fly the B737 and be done with it? or continue sending the resumes out?

I think I am pretty convinced I will never get that job at BA, but do you think lesser airlines could be a possibility?
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 14:11
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No. Keep working away at the opportunities as they arise, and keep networking. I am simply pointing out some of the realities.

You might well end up flying for BA, I have no idea. Whatever you do I wish you success. Where there is a will, there is often a way! Neither should set your sights or your ambitions any lower.

You have highlighted one of the many potential pitfalls along the career path, but that doesn't mean it is insurmountable.

Good luck.
Bealzebub is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 14:18
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you Beazle I will keep trying without hope or agenda

Are you also an Airline Captain Beazle? like I said to Redsnail would you mind posting a timeline of events leading up to this job? nothing too personal just to paint a picture of what the career path looks like.
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 14:45
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
John Smith - That is a harsh post

I have only been flying for a couple of years, I don't know any better I am afraid.

But I doubt little old me would bring down you & your co workers T & C's, like Beazle said the good reputable company's want nothing to do with inexperienced pilots like myself.

I was just told that buying 500 hours is the way things are done now, I worked very hard at my studies and have put a lot of money in to this dream, I may well give up...

I am seeking advice on what is next for me, I am a genuine, kind & caring person with a passion for flight, that is all. I just love flying and all things aviation.

All the captains I flew with said I was a good chap and to keep working hard.
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 15:41
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The reason I didn't get kept on was because there where more first officer's waiting to start the LT and they had no vacancy for me.
The 'eureka' moment! Your predicament is unfortunate but an entirely predictable consequence of the risks that you took.

'I was just told that....' A top tip for dealing with flying schools, airlines, agencies, and in fact for life in general is: beware of taking advice from those who stand to profit from your decisions.

I'm not sure whether you're genuine and naive or trolling but if it spreads the word to other potential suckers, the replies are not entirely wasted. You're best bet would be to try to work up from the bottom: try your luck in Maun, instruct at a flying club etc. None of these routes offer guarantees but at the moment you have nothing. Very, very few people go direct from training into a paid jet job. The rest of us found our own routes to reach that point.
Torque Tonight is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 15:45
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But I doubt little old me would bring down you & your co workers T & C's
Wrong. Try negotiating a pay rise when there are ever more people willing to do your job for less - or in the case of your 500 hrs, to pay to do it. You may see your contribution as insignificant, but keep chipping away and soon there's nothing left.
Torque Tonight is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 15:45
  #17 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,569
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
My story is sprayed all over PPRuNe.
Where I'm from originally there were no cadet schemes and the military wasn't an option.
So did what we all did then and got a job bush flying and worked up from there. Driving several thousand km to look for work and networking all the way.
Once I had the relevant experience moved to the next job.
It's incredibly competitive in Australia to get a jet job and fortunately I also held a British passport so I shifted to the UK in 2001. Yes, that year. When I arrived here (UK) I had over 4,500 hours.

Many people fall into the trap of believing the flight school publicity of "learn to fly at our school and you'll be in a jet on graduation". As Beazlebub said, only those on a tagged scheme will that happen. Yes, Ryanair have taken a lot of new pilots but that's another story - and expense.

You've explained the pitfall WRT buying hours. There's no job at the end because there's someone else lining up to pay to play.

Advice. Aim lower and/or prepare to move. There is no magic solution. Just hard work.
redsnail is online now  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 15:50
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Torquetonight - I am a genuine pilot, not trolling or trying to upset the community.

I don't think I would make a very good instructor as I went down the Modular self study route, and although I passed all the exams there is still knowledge deficiency's in my aviation knowledge that need improving.

I would feel so silly if a student asked me a question and I couldn't answer him/her

I do like the sound of Maun, but the pay is not enough to cover my monthly expenses so I am in a catch 22

I appreciate your feedback though, what are you flying yourself sir?
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 15:55
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: somewhere out there
Age: 39
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Redsnail - Thank you for sharing your journey I bet you have a few story's to tell

Thanks for the advice, may it be a lesson to all considering 500 hours, it will clearly do more harm than good for your career, I wish I could get my time & money back

In my case, I had just finished my training, the bank had approved the loan I had not even sat in a 737 and watching them come in to land at my local airport I just could not resist the temptation! all that and the "it will all be ok in the end" voice inside my head!!!

Granted though after my first 50 hours the novelty had worn off, it was still very enjoyable and fun, but no butterflies in the stomach or a big cheesy grin all the way to the airport after the first 50 or so hours on type

Last edited by Leon1983; 10th Aug 2013 at 16:01.
Leon1983 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2013, 16:04
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: slumberland
Age: 39
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Leon, by your post it is so OBVIOUS you not only DID NOT do the 500 hour line training but hated P2f and want to create a fake account so that no one do p2f and 500 hour LT again.

Because you know that if everyone have 500 hours on type, they will be ahead of you.
lingdee is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.