Why Do It?

[leyahl]

A320renewal- what a muppet. You've just shown your hand mate- spent all your money and didn't get a job. You're bitter and obviously went into all this blindly in your 40s. Save us all the crap so that mature people can have a proper debate.
To add to the initial poster's question- I went into training with my eyes open, trained modular with dosh spare for a TR. I'm now in the process for getting a job with a Loco. Getting up at 3am to fly is 100x better than getting up at 7am to commute to an IT technician job/sales job/whatever even at half the salary in the short term. And that's why people like a320renewal are bitter and twisted knowing they'll be stuck in the rat race for ever.

[Artie Fufkin]

The point is, seeing as it clearly eludes you A320renewal, is that as Alycidon says "balance and perspective".

You might end up being raped by MOL, but you may also end up doing your time on a rubbish contract, before moving on to much better. A mate got DEP long haul BA last year - you simply wouldn't believe how cushy it sounds. There are good jobs out there, even during the worst recession in living memory.

You pay your money and take your chances. Just go in with your eyes open.

[redsnail]

Today was a crackin' day out. Nice little hop to the French coast with a 'plane full of delightful pax. Loved the flight and really looked forward to their holiday.
Then we ferried it back to the departure airport. No pax so could hand fly the approach. Did that culminating in a nice touch down for a landing. Happy days.
Just had my fill of sushi and sashimi at the local Japanese restaurant.
Tomorrow, 3 sectors which promise to be fun.

[Nekro]

"He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life." - Mohammed Ali

[KAG]

As far as the risk is not your parent's house...

I am not saying A320renewal is 100% wrong, for sure his very unlucky experience is one to be told, but it is plain wrong to say that a pilot career is impossible, otherwise who are we us pilot working right now???

In addition one can chose to be a bush pilot, which is extremely rewarding for the ones who are aviators in their soul and not afraid to travel, and it doesn't cost that much to get there... Many bush pilots have evolved towars bigger and better salary, and it will happen again.

This part doesn't exist in the A320renewal narrative, hence my post in this thread to point out his posts are not to be read without warning, he is showing only one part of the reality, the only one he knows. Still, his experience remains and the cash he lost is real.

Just wanted to say that's not, in general, all black or all white.

[Wirbelsturm]

Just taken a full 777 on a shuttle flight, hand flew the approach because I wanted to and ATC in the region are very ameinable.

Good pay, good conditions, off to the Caribbean next.

The jobs are there, just not too many of them.

[Depone]

Redsnail,

Not wishing to go off point, but are you not allowed to hand fly with pax?

Back to thread. The world changes. Airlines can't afford to pay pilots to live a luxury lifestyle. Low cost operators pay as little as they can get away with. The unemployed will always take jobs with poor terms and conditions rather than let the bank repossess their house.

But even life as a loco pilot isnt bad. In fact, many pilots who complain are just guys who got into the wrong career. I flew down to Africa yesterday with an excellent, funny Captain. Oh how we laughed at the waypoints along the way: RUBMI-KOK-DIKAS. Not a bad day out and €700 less in debt. But some days are truly rubbish and sometimes the stress of loco employment does get to you.

Eyes wide open.

[KAG]

Not wishing to go off point, but are you not allowed to hand fly with pax?

Company policy I guess?

In mine this is autopilot on when in RVSM.

It means that it is not unusual to hand fly from 10000 feet to landing, even with 177 pax onboard. Not bad to keep your skills, we are pilot after all... Better to keep the skills we are paid to get and maintain...

[Alycidon]

Depone says

In fact, many pilots who complain are just guys who got into the wrong career

This is the very point of the thread, it is too late to complain after the money is spent and there are a fair few unhappy people around who only realise that being a pilot is not quite what they thought it would be once they have been on line for a year or two and know a bit more more about the industry.

Some of the happier guys/gals are the ones who were already in the industry doing ground jobs etc, and knew the job for what it is, before they made the investment. (amazingly, it didn't put them off!)

It was less likely for a pilot to remain in the wrong career long a few years ago as many pilots had plenty of time flying instructing in a puddle jumper, flying turboprops, or flying for the queen and had ample opportunity and time to mull it over and to call it a day if they didn't enjoy it before getting into a career airline.

It is also still possible to have a very pleasant day out (with the right crew), the rigid, presciptive SOPs,OFDM requirements, fuel leagues and management harassment haven't quite killed off the fun, but they sure are trying to!

ps. hand flying is not discouraged at my airline, but most guys are reluctant to trigger any OFDM events so they don't handfly that much.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I spent a number of years earning the money to fund my training, as did a number of my friends, and all of us are now enjoying the benefits of flying for a living. I think the main benefit is really enjoying your work.

A320 Renewal, perhaps your handle sums it all up? Your comments are pathetic and immature.

Comments made regarding to put up with slot delays, baggage handlers and getting up at 4am, well wake up and smell the coffee. If these things irritate you, you are in the wrong job.

Guys who enter this industry with a passion for flying and succeed with their goals will reap the rewards.

[Alycidon]

Comments made regarding to put up with slot delays, baggage handlers and getting up at 4am, well wake up and smell the coffee. If these things irritate you, you are in the wrong job.

Ah cat111c auto land, I see you've never had the joy of being told to turn off the rotating beacons by the ramp staff to facilitate a water top up you didn't request and hadn't been told about, while at the same time being told by ATC to expedite start and taxi to make the latest airborne time or your slot will expire. With a late headcount. While also trying to line train! On a level 2 variation! ie. don't miss the slot.

Launching into uncontrolled airspace at MRTOW bleeds off.

While also remaining calm, collected, maintaining situational awareness,responsible for the lives of 197 men, women, children and babies.

This "passion for flying" isn't infinite.

Balance and perspective.

No sugar thanks.

[ftimesf]

Why did I do it...

I asked myself the same question many, many times, and at one point I hated the fact that I foolishly took that trial flying lesson that started it all off.

Professional pilot training (modular based as I did) was an emotional roller coaster as I was in a stressful office based job that took up vast amounts of my time so coming home after a crap day, the last thing I wanted to do was study for my ATPLs etc. Finally getting through the CPL/MEP/IR was far from the last of the pain; in fact I'd say that was the beginning of the pain.

I realised that the market was in such a mess that I would have no chance of getting a job without a type rating. I just wasn't that lucky one in a few who's in the right place at the right time.

I asked for voluntary redundancy so I could fund the type rating. My family said I was a fool for giving up a great job to pay for a type rating knowing that the chances of a job were still very low and my salary would be cut in half! I spent a year getting little bits of flying work, living on the bread line and wondering whether I'd have to fund an LPC renewal..

Bitten by the bug I carried on and got there in the end.

Yes, I earn less than I used to, I fly short busy sectors and experience all the airport trauma that has previously been mentioned but, I work with good captains, have time off, and have a quality of life I never had in my last job - it's not all about money.

Would I have started the process if I knew what I know now?... Maybe not but that's not something I have to go through again...

Would I recommend someone starting from scratch today?.... Not a chance unless they had lots and lots of cash and were prepared for knock back after knock back..

[redsnail]

Thread drift response to Depone.
We can hand fly with pax (need to in London City, Samedan, Cannes etc) but we have to leave the FD in. If we want to do raw data, OM A stipulates it's to be done on ferry legs.

[fade to grey]

I'm with alycidon, mainly.
Truth be told alot of new entrants to this game are ex-IT workers with small willies, and want some stripes and a big watch.

They have managed to save up enough to try and get out of the office, and actually be taken seriously for once in their lives.

Driving down TCs , because in their race to get to their "60T jet" they have paid for everything an airline should provide.

I still enjoy the view, but if I had 100k today I wouldn't gamble it on this.

[Artie Fufkin]

I see you've never had the joy of being told to turn off the rotating beacons by the ramp staff to facilitate a water top up you didn't request and hadn't been told about

What am I missing here? Surely the skipper should just tell them to sod off?!

[ABZ777]

Why do it?

If its all you've ever wanted to do then what other option is there?

[a320renewal]

To add to the initial poster's question- I went into training with my eyes open, trained modular with dosh spare for a TR. I'm now in the process for getting a job with a Loco.

you mean you have paid for your license, type rating, line training just to be "in the process"?

some of you smoke to much crack! we are ALL in the process to get a flying job, it doesn't mean you will get a paid job.

[clunk1001]

Pilots complaining about terms and conditions going down, do you not realize that this is happening in all sectors of work.

Despite the recession some professional salaries are actually on the increase, rising almost as fast as Pilot salaries are falling. Some salaries in niche Technology sectors are up around 50% over the past 18 months, putting them on par with any long haul captain.

...but they don't have an internet forum to complain and bitch on

Most if not all professions do have internet forums, the difference I find with Pprune is the surprising lack of credence given to the advice and opinions of those experienced in the profession. If the expert advice contradicts their belief, many here will assume that the advice is simply wrong and discount it in favour of something which confirms their beliefs. (I'm sure I read something similar in some flying manual somewhere...).

Most of the pilots in and just out of flight school have tunnel vision to fly shiny jets, and will continue blindly 'heads down' in their course of action with a lack of awareness of what is happening around them. (Again, I'm sure I read something similar in some flying manual somewhere).

Lessons learnt in the cockpit are just as relevant outside the cockpit.


Many considering the profession who dont know better are sold the dream of the shiny jet by flight schools who already have hundreds of unemployed graduates.

And, in answer to the original question - personally, I did it because I wanted to fly a shiny jet.

[Mikehotel152]

Perhaps using the example of high salaries in niche IT jobs simply proves the point that the general trend is down?

And an earlier comment:

ex-IT workers with small willies, and want some stripes and a big watch

might just be a coincidence...

But yes, Clunk, I think the FTOs have a lot to answer for. Mind you, I am staggered at the numbers signing up for flight training since the recession started in 2007/8. Do people not do any impartial research before paying out such HUGE sums of borrowed money on training?

I find it hard to sympathise. And that's whether it's honestly your dream to become an airline pilot or whether you just fancy the big watch (I still wear my £6.99 digital Casio for flying, as it happens...).

On a serious note, why don't people just get a job, go modular and then pay for your training using your income? Then, if you dont get a job you have something to fall back on.

is undoubtedly the best advice.

[FANS]

People signing up for non-tagged integrated schemes in the current environment do not have an approach to risk that is suited to airline flying. OR they can comfortably afford to lose this cash.

The current economic situation should not be underestimated by anyone at present, and I fail to see why one would not at the very least wait 6-12 months.