Odds against pilots
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Age: 41
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It's very rare that I surface on here, just been trying to keep my head down and my mouth shut for the best part of 18 months. Thinking if I did then maybe my luck may change and land a RHS job but what a load of nonesnce.
Integrated or modular doesn't matter. I never had the money so saved and went modular some have it or take loans and go intergrated. This industry really is who you know and that's that. I used to be really positive and think fair jobs for all but that's not the case. I've seen many people who are preselected before a job spec is written and that's fact.
We have ruined our own industry. You want a job then go brown nose the right people because sending your CV isn't going to do you any good. Those people on here that know me know I've tried everything and still am but the way things are playing out infront of my eyes disgusts me.
Integrated or modular doesn't matter. I never had the money so saved and went modular some have it or take loans and go intergrated. This industry really is who you know and that's that. I used to be really positive and think fair jobs for all but that's not the case. I've seen many people who are preselected before a job spec is written and that's fact.
We have ruined our own industry. You want a job then go brown nose the right people because sending your CV isn't going to do you any good. Those people on here that know me know I've tried everything and still am but the way things are playing out infront of my eyes disgusts me.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Kash. You really have just answered your own question. Go and get a job at a flying club/operator doing anything. In a dispatch office, cleaning a/c, refuelling, working a club bar, whatever.
It is here where you meet people, contacts. It does work. It worked for me and many others.
Best of luck.
It is here where you meet people, contacts. It does work. It worked for me and many others.
Best of luck.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Kash,
I seem to recall answering some of your threads a couple of years ago, and as best as I could, telling you the way the world was. It hasn't changed much.
18 months ago.....Well 20 to be exact, I followed a group of 25 "wannabes" through a course of approved training at an integrated flying school. I was interested (because of my own experience) how this group would actually progress. At that time the market was looking pretty bleak, and even for graduates of this and similar programmes, the prospect was of "holding pools" for indeterminate amounts of time. Nevertheless, this is where it seemed that any growth was likely to occur.
Over that time interval, one dropped out of training. Two completed and moved to the far East into a well known cadet programme. The rest all joined two UK airlines and have now either completed or are about to complete their line training. For most of them the prospect of full time contracts being offered (subject to ongoing satisfactory performance) is looking very good indeed.
That is a snapshot. Outside of these cadet programmes, it is very difficult indeed to find any form of airline placement. Most airlines are simply not interested at recruiting at this level. Those that do, tend to subcontract the selection process to other organisations, and make application a commercial process.
I have said it on other threads, but will say it again. It is a very steep hill to climb into the right hand seat of an airliner, with low experience. For the majority of people it is too steep. Beyond airline cadet programmes (and their integrated training) the "stepping stone" progression through the various aspects of aerial work and entry level jobs is still an option. It is often a long and frustrating option, but it is there. The obvious problem with this method, is that more airlines are utilising cadet programmes as a greater proportion of their right seat recruitment. The remainder is therefore being competitively fought for, by very experienced and often type rated pilots.
I don't know whether you have looked at instructing, or refreshed your search for entry level jobs (sending CV's simply isn't good enough). However there are no more guarantees now than there were 18 months ago. Moaning about the world or the way things are, is pointless.
People are getting jobs, but it is as hard as it ever was. For those who think they can slide into the right hand seat of a 737 or A320 with 200 hours, they had better understand how that happens before they start writing cheques.
A lot of people simply don't want to believe what you tell them, if it doesn't mesh with their idea of the way they think the world should be.
Good luck, and I hope your wife has finally forgiven you!
I seem to recall answering some of your threads a couple of years ago, and as best as I could, telling you the way the world was. It hasn't changed much.
18 months ago.....Well 20 to be exact, I followed a group of 25 "wannabes" through a course of approved training at an integrated flying school. I was interested (because of my own experience) how this group would actually progress. At that time the market was looking pretty bleak, and even for graduates of this and similar programmes, the prospect was of "holding pools" for indeterminate amounts of time. Nevertheless, this is where it seemed that any growth was likely to occur.
Over that time interval, one dropped out of training. Two completed and moved to the far East into a well known cadet programme. The rest all joined two UK airlines and have now either completed or are about to complete their line training. For most of them the prospect of full time contracts being offered (subject to ongoing satisfactory performance) is looking very good indeed.
That is a snapshot. Outside of these cadet programmes, it is very difficult indeed to find any form of airline placement. Most airlines are simply not interested at recruiting at this level. Those that do, tend to subcontract the selection process to other organisations, and make application a commercial process.
I have said it on other threads, but will say it again. It is a very steep hill to climb into the right hand seat of an airliner, with low experience. For the majority of people it is too steep. Beyond airline cadet programmes (and their integrated training) the "stepping stone" progression through the various aspects of aerial work and entry level jobs is still an option. It is often a long and frustrating option, but it is there. The obvious problem with this method, is that more airlines are utilising cadet programmes as a greater proportion of their right seat recruitment. The remainder is therefore being competitively fought for, by very experienced and often type rated pilots.
I don't know whether you have looked at instructing, or refreshed your search for entry level jobs (sending CV's simply isn't good enough). However there are no more guarantees now than there were 18 months ago. Moaning about the world or the way things are, is pointless.
People are getting jobs, but it is as hard as it ever was. For those who think they can slide into the right hand seat of a 737 or A320 with 200 hours, they had better understand how that happens before they start writing cheques.
A lot of people simply don't want to believe what you tell them, if it doesn't mesh with their idea of the way they think the world should be.
Good luck, and I hope your wife has finally forgiven you!
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Your right moaning about how the world works isn't going to change my situation. And just sending CV's out are not going to help much. That's why I headed down to Africa and tried my luck. Currently sitting in an ops room for the past 18 or so months hasn't helped either. I remember someone I spoke to before taking this job who advised to be careful as you could become too good in ops and that's what I feel I have done to myself. The company now don't see me as a potential pilot I think instead just a guy who is okay at ops.
I'm renewing my MEIR again this week and have not looked for any flying jobs for a while thinking id get in with the company I am working for. I'm back to square 1 again I suppose. I think that's what's made me a bit bitter to be honest but I have to suck it up and get on with it I suppose.
I'm renewing my MEIR again this week and have not looked for any flying jobs for a while thinking id get in with the company I am working for. I'm back to square 1 again I suppose. I think that's what's made me a bit bitter to be honest but I have to suck it up and get on with it I suppose.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I am trying to think where I was at your age. 29. Just on the cusp I think between starting flying and getting paid versus cleaning aircraft for pocketmoney!
Everyone thinks things are so much different and so much harder these days? I think not. It was never easy and a lot of work and time and money had to be thrown at this at any time.
You are now in the right place. I was a very good hangar rat. That did'nt mean I had to stay a hangar rat for ever and I didn't. Right now times are hard but hang in there, GENTLY make your mark and you'll be surprised what can happen!
Everyone thinks things are so much different and so much harder these days? I think not. It was never easy and a lot of work and time and money had to be thrown at this at any time.
You are now in the right place. I was a very good hangar rat. That did'nt mean I had to stay a hangar rat for ever and I didn't. Right now times are hard but hang in there, GENTLY make your mark and you'll be surprised what can happen!
Here's the deal. Paying cash for a licence which enables you to carry out atrade for which ther is limited demand is a gamble. As with all gambling, the common sense rule is to never bet more than you can afford to lose.
If you get that, you need never be disappointed about not getting the job.
If you get that, you need never be disappointed about not getting the job.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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a320renewal, "hours so low you cannot consider yourself a pilot"? doom mongering at its finest. Think you need to brush your teeth as theres so much crap is coming out of your mouth. 
idiot
Europe will die? wont ever happen. "Probably wont get a job", well you definitely wont get a job unless you try will you!
Tiger, seriously if you want it bad enough (like me) you'll work out a way and go for it. Please please, do not listen to around 99% of the BS that is spoken on this forum. It's brilliant in some areas but you find people who just want to put the industry down and talk people out of trying. Granted, at the moment the industry isnt looking fantastic, but we're in a double dip recession. The industry works in peaks and troughs so it will improve in time.
The only thing here that is guaranteed, if you dont try you definitely wont get a job.
idiotEurope will die? wont ever happen. "Probably wont get a job", well you definitely wont get a job unless you try will you!
Tiger, seriously if you want it bad enough (like me) you'll work out a way and go for it. Please please, do not listen to around 99% of the BS that is spoken on this forum. It's brilliant in some areas but you find people who just want to put the industry down and talk people out of trying. Granted, at the moment the industry isnt looking fantastic, but we're in a double dip recession. The industry works in peaks and troughs so it will improve in time.
The only thing here that is guaranteed, if you dont try you definitely wont get a job.
