New Aerial Survey Pilot Cadet Scheme
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Thankyou to both magicmick and corsair!
I got a reply from them saying they hope to continue it for further years :-)
How does an 18/19 y/o ex RAF air cadet, fitting all of the requirements, with a whole lot of enthusiasm sound for this?
I got a reply from them saying they hope to continue it for further years :-)
How does an 18/19 y/o ex RAF air cadet, fitting all of the requirements, with a whole lot of enthusiasm sound for this?
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Hi Mike, your air cadet time will stand you in good stead with many organisations (not just APEM) both in and outside aviation, it all depends on the individual in charge of recruitment but faced with a large pile of CVs all from people with PPL and 100hrs you need to make yours stand out from the others and cadet membership will definitely do that for you.
Most teens have not done an awful lot with their time other than A levels and flying training so to have been a member of any of the military cadet organisations, to have played sport at a reasonable level (county level etc) or maybe to have travelled with a rucksack and a tent for a few months will get your CV noticed and pushed to the top of the pile.
The subject of military cadet forces was discussed on a thread some months ago and 2 contributors who were both involved in recruitment for airlines stated that membership of a military cadet force would get a CV through the first sift and on top of the pile for interview and assessment.
If/ when you get to interview the cadet force time will give you something to discuss with the interviewer and when they ask the dreaded ‘tell me about a time when…..’ questions you will have real life examples to regale them with.
As regards enthusiasm, you can be fairly sure that all applicants will claim to be enthusiastic about the job.
Good luck with the remainder of your flying training and A levels etc and if APEM do take another cadet later then I wish you well with your application.
Most teens have not done an awful lot with their time other than A levels and flying training so to have been a member of any of the military cadet organisations, to have played sport at a reasonable level (county level etc) or maybe to have travelled with a rucksack and a tent for a few months will get your CV noticed and pushed to the top of the pile.
The subject of military cadet forces was discussed on a thread some months ago and 2 contributors who were both involved in recruitment for airlines stated that membership of a military cadet force would get a CV through the first sift and on top of the pile for interview and assessment.
If/ when you get to interview the cadet force time will give you something to discuss with the interviewer and when they ask the dreaded ‘tell me about a time when…..’ questions you will have real life examples to regale them with.
As regards enthusiasm, you can be fairly sure that all applicants will claim to be enthusiastic about the job.
Good luck with the remainder of your flying training and A levels etc and if APEM do take another cadet later then I wish you well with your application.
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was an Air cadet for a few years, camps, gliding scholarship, sports and team building all did me in good stead, ok my interview was for engineering not flying, but still.... over 400 applicants I got 1 of 16 jobs and I’m a thicko!
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For the right person it will be a good gig.
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MJ is absolutely correct about the nature and diversity of the flying that APEM conduct. As just one example someone who did their CPL at the same time as me ended up flying for them (he’s not there now) but one of his first jobs with the company was to catch a commercial flight to Naples with another APEM pilot, pick up a new Vulcanair MEP survey aircraft from the factory and fly it back to UK, took them about 9 or 10 hours with fuel stops en route. The bar story generated by this trip was so good that at the time one of the monthly pilot magazines dedicated a few page article to it. However as MJ states such experiences are not for everyone and will only be savoured and enjoyed by an individual with the right outlook and attitude, so make sure that you enter the scheme with your eyes wide open.
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It's absolutely true that having the right attitude is a great help in these jobs. I know from my own experience that choosing a pilot to suit your operation is harder than you might think considering all the CVs you get.
It's hard to define but you know when you see it and if they can fly well (surprisingly not always a given), you've found your pilot. But you can go through a lot of people to get there.
No doubt the successfull candidate for that job will tick all those boxes.
It's hard to define but you know when you see it and if they can fly well (surprisingly not always a given), you've found your pilot. But you can go through a lot of people to get there.
No doubt the successfull candidate for that job will tick all those boxes.
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I don’t work in recruitment (god forbid) but I can imagine that when faced with a mountain of CVs for one job you have to be pretty brutal in the initial sift and then you get a very brief interview/ assessment to decide which complete stranger you’re going to trust with your expensive aircraft. I don’t envy anyone that sort of decision.
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decide which complete stranger you’re going to trust with your expensive aircraft.
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I guess when you get into an aircraft and see someone that you recruited up front you must question your thought processes when you recruited them. Definitely time to chuck away the glass and swig straight from the bottle!!!!
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Beware
Hi to all
I've read all your posts in relation to this discussion, and to some extent, some of you are correct in your assumptions about the 'need' for this company to bond young and inexperienced pilots.
I am talking from first hand experience here, and it is not sour grapes for me as I am very well established in aviation now. I implore anyone considering this as an option to further their flying career to think very very hard. The company in question need to 'bond' as they cannot retain experienced pilots, as they are able to display strength of character and take a stand to say no to flying in inappropriate conditions. I cannot stand by and watch keen wannabes see this as an answer to their lack of opportunity in aviation today. Please steer clear of this 'offer' there are other options, ones which will not bind you to a company that is not interested in your personal development at all; they are purely interested in getting their pound of flesh.
It angers me that they now position themselves as assisting young pilots get a foothold in the industry. Trust me, this is not their motive. Stay, stay away. If only this company would have listened to past employees, they may not have found themselves floundering for people to stay with them. It's simple, 'Treat people as you expect to be treated', that way respect is developed in both directions, loyalty is established and trust earned, it's not hard, however, some people are just greedy bullies and cannot learn this simple lesson.
Good luck to all those fighting to get a break in this business, it is eventually worth it, but not via opportunities like this.
I've read all your posts in relation to this discussion, and to some extent, some of you are correct in your assumptions about the 'need' for this company to bond young and inexperienced pilots.
I am talking from first hand experience here, and it is not sour grapes for me as I am very well established in aviation now. I implore anyone considering this as an option to further their flying career to think very very hard. The company in question need to 'bond' as they cannot retain experienced pilots, as they are able to display strength of character and take a stand to say no to flying in inappropriate conditions. I cannot stand by and watch keen wannabes see this as an answer to their lack of opportunity in aviation today. Please steer clear of this 'offer' there are other options, ones which will not bind you to a company that is not interested in your personal development at all; they are purely interested in getting their pound of flesh.
It angers me that they now position themselves as assisting young pilots get a foothold in the industry. Trust me, this is not their motive. Stay, stay away. If only this company would have listened to past employees, they may not have found themselves floundering for people to stay with them. It's simple, 'Treat people as you expect to be treated', that way respect is developed in both directions, loyalty is established and trust earned, it's not hard, however, some people are just greedy bullies and cannot learn this simple lesson.
Good luck to all those fighting to get a break in this business, it is eventually worth it, but not via opportunities like this.
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Hi Backontrack, those are some pretty serious allegations, that’s not to say that I don’t believe you and I’m sure that you’ve grabbed the attention of anyone that has applied to the scheme or is considering making an application. Can you elaborate a little bit on your post with examples or experiences, obviously without getting libellous or compromising your identity?
Well done on getting established in aviation with a different operator, no mean feat in the current climate.
Well done on getting established in aviation with a different operator, no mean feat in the current climate.
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Actually it works in your favour
Tell them to poke off if the wx is illegal and then they fire you and you won't have to pay the bond off. And all it will cost you is the price of a BALPA membership
Tell them to poke off if the wx is illegal and then they fire you and you won't have to pay the bond off. And all it will cost you is the price of a BALPA membership
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The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth
Dear Backontrack – as MD of APEM I feel strongly about the comments you have made and would like to put the record straight.
Your first hand experience of working in our company (APEM ltd) extended to 3.5 months during which you undertook aerial photography survey work primarily of the River Tyne in summer 2008. As you know, back then we had just one single engined aircraft, now we have 5, including four twins. You left abruptly after being offered another flying position, using us merely to get a step up the aviation ladder. You were never and would never have been asked to undertake any flying that was unsafe or asked to fly in “inappropriate conditions”. APEM is an aerial survey company specialising in aquatic science and for the survey work you were undertaking we required not only good aerial photography conditions (bright, sunny, no cloud) but also low river flows. As a pilot myself I do not understand how such conditions could be described as “inappropriate”. Inconvenient (to you) may be a better description.
In terms of personal development, again you appear to be misrepresenting our firm – we invest heavily in training for all our staff including our pilots (and we always have). APEM currently spends over £50,000 annually on training and professional support. This includes medical, currency ratings and line training for our pilots (currently 6 full-time and 3 part-time). Whilst our existing pilots are not bonded in any way for these costs, we expect individuals to respect the investment we make in them as professionals to ensure they can safely (and legally) undertake their duties. Hence, it is not unreasonable to ask them to give appropriate notice as specified in their employment contracts.
Whilst this has not always been the case, our staff retention rate as a company is extremely high. Since 2005 we have employed a total of fourteen pilots, nine of whom are still with us, you were the second and in the following 4 years only two individuals out of a total of eleven have left of their own accord. Indeed, our very first survey pilot has now returned and is flying with us again. Once more you appear to be misinformed.
APEM employs over 130 people and has operated a Graduate Training Programme (similar to an Apprenticeship Scheme) for the past 10 years, with over 50 individuals having passed through the system, ten of whom are still with the company today in a variety of roles. We spend around £3,000 each on the training (internal & external) of these people and have a sliding scale of ‘Bond’ to reflect that investment. It has worked well and is highly regarded scheme in the industry. It has kick-started many careers as well as providing the company with good quality professional workers, albeit in the early, and understandably mobile, stage of their working lives.
We regard the Pilot Cadetship scheme in exactly the same way – a means of providing the firm with skilled pilots well versed in the type of flying we undertake but also an opportunity to start a small number of careers for people wishing to gain a foothold in an industry full of entry level barriers. The investment in our Cadets, especially compared to the training figures for the overall company, is substantial. We hope to continue this each year with a new intake of Cadets but would be foolish if we did not try and protect that investment in some way. We are not trying to establish some feudal system of enforced slavery – our cadets will be paid a salary, the going rate during training and afterwards as survey pilots without being asked to pay anything back. The Bond is specifically in relation to the investment associated with becoming a fully qualified commercial survey pilot and as you know is the norm in the industry.
This is particularly important with individuals like yourself around, who think nothing of taking all they can from an employer and then leaving them abruptly when the opportunity presents itself to jump onto the next rung of the aviation ladder. I suggest you examine your own character and behaviour before making scurrilous and unfounded allegations against others.
The accusations you make are untrue. As a professional pilot - I question your judgement; and as an individual - I question the accuracy of your memory and the perverse recollection you have of your brief period of employment with us.
If any of the above is anyway untrue or misleading, I look forward to hearing from your solicitors – I somehow doubt that I shall.
Nevertheless glad to hear you are back on track.
If anyone reading these comments has any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Regards,
Dr Keith Hendry
Managing Director
APEM Ltd
Your first hand experience of working in our company (APEM ltd) extended to 3.5 months during which you undertook aerial photography survey work primarily of the River Tyne in summer 2008. As you know, back then we had just one single engined aircraft, now we have 5, including four twins. You left abruptly after being offered another flying position, using us merely to get a step up the aviation ladder. You were never and would never have been asked to undertake any flying that was unsafe or asked to fly in “inappropriate conditions”. APEM is an aerial survey company specialising in aquatic science and for the survey work you were undertaking we required not only good aerial photography conditions (bright, sunny, no cloud) but also low river flows. As a pilot myself I do not understand how such conditions could be described as “inappropriate”. Inconvenient (to you) may be a better description.
In terms of personal development, again you appear to be misrepresenting our firm – we invest heavily in training for all our staff including our pilots (and we always have). APEM currently spends over £50,000 annually on training and professional support. This includes medical, currency ratings and line training for our pilots (currently 6 full-time and 3 part-time). Whilst our existing pilots are not bonded in any way for these costs, we expect individuals to respect the investment we make in them as professionals to ensure they can safely (and legally) undertake their duties. Hence, it is not unreasonable to ask them to give appropriate notice as specified in their employment contracts.
Whilst this has not always been the case, our staff retention rate as a company is extremely high. Since 2005 we have employed a total of fourteen pilots, nine of whom are still with us, you were the second and in the following 4 years only two individuals out of a total of eleven have left of their own accord. Indeed, our very first survey pilot has now returned and is flying with us again. Once more you appear to be misinformed.
APEM employs over 130 people and has operated a Graduate Training Programme (similar to an Apprenticeship Scheme) for the past 10 years, with over 50 individuals having passed through the system, ten of whom are still with the company today in a variety of roles. We spend around £3,000 each on the training (internal & external) of these people and have a sliding scale of ‘Bond’ to reflect that investment. It has worked well and is highly regarded scheme in the industry. It has kick-started many careers as well as providing the company with good quality professional workers, albeit in the early, and understandably mobile, stage of their working lives.
We regard the Pilot Cadetship scheme in exactly the same way – a means of providing the firm with skilled pilots well versed in the type of flying we undertake but also an opportunity to start a small number of careers for people wishing to gain a foothold in an industry full of entry level barriers. The investment in our Cadets, especially compared to the training figures for the overall company, is substantial. We hope to continue this each year with a new intake of Cadets but would be foolish if we did not try and protect that investment in some way. We are not trying to establish some feudal system of enforced slavery – our cadets will be paid a salary, the going rate during training and afterwards as survey pilots without being asked to pay anything back. The Bond is specifically in relation to the investment associated with becoming a fully qualified commercial survey pilot and as you know is the norm in the industry.
This is particularly important with individuals like yourself around, who think nothing of taking all they can from an employer and then leaving them abruptly when the opportunity presents itself to jump onto the next rung of the aviation ladder. I suggest you examine your own character and behaviour before making scurrilous and unfounded allegations against others.
The accusations you make are untrue. As a professional pilot - I question your judgement; and as an individual - I question the accuracy of your memory and the perverse recollection you have of your brief period of employment with us.
If any of the above is anyway untrue or misleading, I look forward to hearing from your solicitors – I somehow doubt that I shall.
Nevertheless glad to hear you are back on track.
If anyone reading these comments has any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Regards,
Dr Keith Hendry
Managing Director
APEM Ltd