2011 - Modular? Did you get a job?

[CookPassBabtridge]

I need cheering up for Christmas, so I would be interested to hear whether the jobs market for modular frozen ATPL graduates is as bad as it looks. I am not implying that it's all rosy for integrated folks, I just don't care about you!

So, if you got your first full-time flying job this year...

1) What is the job?
2) Did you have to fund any additional training up front to get it?
3) How did you apply for the job?
4) Did you have any contacts on the inside who helped your cause?
5) Did you have previous work experience/relevant skills which helped your cause?
6) How many hours total did you have?
7) Where did you train?

As much or as little detail in the answers as you like!

Merry Christmas, here's to a mass retirement of ageing pilots in 2012!

[Bealzebub]

Well that is not showing a lot of Christmas spirit is it?

Here is a reply that really doesn't answer your question, but it does highlight the point.

In Summer 2010 (last year) I followed the progress of a group of 10 individuals who with little (PPL) or no experience at all, embarked on an integrated course of training at a well known UK provider. That same group is now coming to the end of their course and are still waiting to get their licences. Despite that, they are all starting work on Jet aircraft for airlines in the next month. All have less than 250 hours, and all will have their type ratings paid for. To answer your question as it applied in that case:

1) Airline First officer cadet (Jet type)
2) No.
3) The training organisation nominated the placement.
4) The training organisation did.
5) Nothing relevant.
6) 190-250
7) A well known UK integrated training provider.

As for retirements. Don't get too excited. People sometimes have perceptions of linear retirement paths leading to ficticious "bulges". In reality what happens is that natural attrition smooths out these "bulges" long before they could ever actually occur. Death, sickness, licence loss, redundancy, etc. all erode the numbers over time so that the projected "big wave" is usually an unnoticable ripple by the time it actually reaches shore.

Increases in retirement age, actually make this smoothing effect even more prevalent, as attrition tends to be higher in the older age groups. The state of the economy coupled with legislation changes have resulted in longer careers for many of those at the top of the tree, so don't hold your breath waiting.

For those making New year resolutions, it is all about the choices you make.
Decide what you want. Plant the seeds of investment in the most fertile soil. Irrigate with "luck" and work hard, keeping your fingers crossed that natural disasters wont damage the harvest.

Merry Christmas.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I am sure all newly qualified pilots feel the same mate and even experienced guys can sympathise with you, as most of us guys have been in the same situation, of trying to get your first job.

I work for Bmi, and it was great to see this summer (2011) the company taking some guys out of the hold pool to replace guys who went off the BA. A couple of these guys were guys with little or no experience, but had been working as cabin crew for a couple of years with Bmi.

It was great to see the guys who had been making the right contacts and sitting it out in the cabin only to be given the chance to move into the sharp end. The Airbus type rating and line training was taken care of by the company and the guys are now online and really enjoying the job.

As I am sure you are aware there are many ways into this job, and 9 times out of the 10 it takes a considerable amount of effort. Stay positive and keep plugging away.

[CruiseControl_007]

Jet2, DHL and a few others don't require payment, instead they will bond you for a certain amount of time to cover your training costs

This is not strictly true. Jet2 only fund the TR for ex military guys and then bond them for about 3 years. The low houred ab-initio guys have to fund their own TR including accommodation.

Best of luck!

[zondaracer]

Probably less risk to the employer.

[Gazeem]

B-bub,

That is fascinating is it the case that the large FTO's have really got it all sown up so sweetly now?

I really want there to be a level playing field between int and mod guys.

Are there any modular guys out there who can answer the OPs question?

[CookPassBabtridge]

Thanks Gazeem, back to topic!

So, an unscientific assumption so far that is based on a sample of 1202 viewers there is no one here who has got themselves a job this year following a modular course!

Alister, thanks for your reply - as much as I'd love to be out there with you in Indonesia (great aircraft/scenery) I just couldn't justify giving everything up here especially as the hours don't count in EASA land.

Back to wrapping the presents...

[redsnail]

What do you mean by the hours don't count in EASA land?

When I converted my Aus ATPL to a JAA one, I had 4500 hours in my log book(s). They didn't disappear.

[zondaracer]

1) Flight instructor at an integrated school (non-UK)
2) FI Rating
3) Walked in in-person
4) No, right place at the right time
5) more or less, previous military experience teaching pilots and aircrew technical stuff, but I am sure the main reason why they hired me is because I'm a native English speaker
6) 300 more or less
7) FAA training followed by JAA conversion in different countries

Sorry, maybe not what you were looking for. I have a friend though who did modular training in Italy and got a Ryanair interview and Susi Air interview. I also know a UK FI who did modular and he got hired at Ryanair this year with around 800hrs.

Merry Christmas!

[zondaracer]

Redsnail, I think he misconstrued SIC Caravan time to mean all time in Indonesia.

[CookPassBabtridge]

Thanks for clarifying Alister, I knew there was some issue with it, but didn't realise that SIC time logged on the Caravan could be counted towards your total time. I'd love to do it, but I wouldn't be able to cover my debts back here with the income.

[corsair]

but I wouldn't be able to cover my debts back here with the income.

That's a problem and it remains a problem if you were to get, say a FI job locally. The catch 22 is that a low paid starter job will never cover the debts but the experience will probably ease your progress into a better paid job sooner.

It has to be seen as part of the training process. Having some real world flying is often seen as an advantage in interviews.

It's a dilemma for the newly qualified.

[fwjc]

I know two modular pilots who got full time flying jobs this year. They're probably not on pprune because they're working so hard.

[mATT84DC]

hallo guys, Christmas is already passed, so I wish you a brilliant new year!
as for me, this was my experience, it started in 2010 till now..

1) I am a Let410 FO , I fly for a company under contract with UN and ICRC in Africa.
2) I got a Let410 TR before starting the job hunt.
3) I went to Congo knocking at the doors, looking for my first employement (that was a local charter company where I ve flown for one year, after that, I got a better job with my present employer, always speaking directly with people on the "field")
4) zero ,
5) no, at the time I left Europe ,I did not even speak French (that is more useful that English, in DRC)
6) I had about 400 tt
7) I got my training in 2 normal FTO in Italy and the TR in a TRTO in Czech. Rep.

cheers

[KAG]

Bealzebub:

In Summer 2010 (last year) I followed the progress of a group of 10 individuals who with little (PPL) or no experience at all, embarked on an integrated course of training at a well known UK provider. That same group is now coming to the end of their course and are still waiting to get their licences. Despite that, they are all starting work on Jet aircraft for airlines in the next month. All have less than 250 hours, and all will have their type ratings paid for.

1) Airline First officer cadet (Jet type)
2) No.
3) The training organisation nominated the placement.
4) The training organisation did.
5) Nothing relevant.
6) 190-250
7) A well known UK integrated training provider.

Are you speaking about KD (cadet)?
I beleive every one knows what is a cadet scheme, you are hired before training, best situation. That's not like you have to find a job after training. I know many people who went through cadet scheme, I fly in Asia, but it didn't come to my mind to answer this post using their reality, it would make people looking for a job to get a bit angry for giving them fasle hope and explaining a condition that doesn't concern them ...
In addition the question is MODULAR.
Completely off topic if you ask me.

Here is the subject:

2011, modular, did you get a job?

Absolutely nothing to do with cadet.

[Bealzebub]

Kag,

If you read the second line to the reply you will see that I said:

Here is a reply that really doesn't answer your question, but it does highlight the point.

That point being, that it really is important to understand how to achieve the result that you want by the method you employ. I am no more concerned how "angry" it makes you feel, than the original poster "could care" less.

Clearly the jobs market is every bit as weak as you might expect it to be, and indeed it has been reported as being so for many years now. Aerial work type employment is out there (instructing, bush flying, etc.) but the competition is very intense as the lack of responses unscientifically bears out.

At airline recruitment level, the only real low hour openings are at cadet level, and by no means is that only restricted by pre-selection, however it is largely restricted to specific training programmes and methodology. It is a point that a lot of people clearly choose to ignore, nevertheless it is a counterpoint that deserves to made even if it is not invited to the party.

In summary, I did make it clear that the answer was a counterpoint to the question, and I didn't expect it to be a popular answer for that reason. The section concerning retirement attrition was also in direct response to the posters final comment. In point or counterpoint, the information is factual and might be useful to somebody reading the thread subject. If you don't like it, feel it is irrelevant, or wish it were something else, then simply ignore it. The trouble is of course, that it niggles for a reason.

[KAG]

Alright I see.

[HLloyd26]

Hardly an inspiring read for those embarking on Modular training.

The trouble is of course, that it niggles for a reason.

It certainly does niggle, more so now than ever as far as I'm concerned.

As much as I hate to admit it I'm starting to come round to what Bealzebub preaches.

I've always been in favour of the modular route and have spent several years saving and planning my route. However now I've finally saved enough I can't help feeling that if I'm going to gamble CTC/Oxford may be a better place to put my hard earned cash.

[CookPassBabtridge]

It is a rather disheartening read, but there is hope! I wouldn't give up on the modular route, if you've got the cash for integrated then do modular and put your leftover £40K into a rating or a post-qualified programme like CTC whateveritscalled rather than giving Oxford £80K for £40K worth of training!

I went modular in 2011 and I have found some part-time aerial work here in the UK, but that was only because of contacts. I have a strong suspicion that without those contacts I'd still be moping about and crying into my shiny new blue book.

Let 2012 be the year for modular trained folks getting jobs!

[Bealzebub]

if you've got the cash for integrated then do modular and put your leftover £40K into a rating or a post-qualified programme like CTC whateveritscalled rather than giving Oxford £80K for £40K worth of training!

No, not really the best idea. If you have the resources and the aptitude, then apply for a full time course of study with an organisation that provides trained and continuous (or as continuous as it can be) output to the airlines that you have targetted as your aspirational goal. Post qualification is never going to be as good as full qualification in the example you have given above.
As I repeatedly say on these forums ask yourself what you want, and then research how you can best achieve it.

If your goal is flight instruction or aerial work then yes absolutely utilize the methodology that will help you along that path. If money is an absolute barrier then again here is an alternative. However if you are after a shot at the big leagues with very little experience, then the odds are very poor indeed. If indeed that is your real goal then the argument is only enhanced by quoting the difficulties you yourself have highlighted when you say:

I went modular in 2011 and I have found some part-time aerial work here in the UK, but that was only because of contacts. I have a strong suspicion that without those contacts I'd still be moping about and crying into my shiny new blue book.

Where I would agree, is when you say:

Let 2012 be the year for modular trained folks getting jobs!

That would be a very good thing to see, however even if that were to materialize, the truth is that save for a very few people, those same jobs would still be at the traditional aerial work level, with this level of experience.