Easyjet New Ab-initio scheme :)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colchester
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where is that statistic from? There were around 450-500 applications I believe, a few of which weren't invited to stage 2 as they either didn't meet the requirements or didn't really impress on the written application. On the first day of stage 2 I'd say at least half of the people in the groups I was there with were told they'd failed the computer aptitude tests and then on the 2nd day some people failed to meet the required standard on the teamwork exercise and interviews and only the people that had passed all of these to the normal OAA integrated standard would be shortlisted to be selected by easyJet for the next stage. 350 seems far too many?
This was from one of our ex-Oxford cadets who was recruited by Oxford to attend an open day to talk to the hopefuls. 350 was the figure given by Oxford.
My point was that so many are prepared to consider such a one-sided, high risk and low reward "deal" in the first place. The fact that 450 to 500 applied makes it even worse!
I do hope that everyone realises how poor the best outcome really is.
My point was that so many are prepared to consider such a one-sided, high risk and low reward "deal" in the first place. The fact that 450 to 500 applied makes it even worse!
I do hope that everyone realises how poor the best outcome really is.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colchester
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahhh yes, this is the number of people that were taken through to the 2nd stage, which is where the ex-Oxford EZY pilots were answering questions. Many of these were deemed unsuitable or, like you state, were willing to risk daddy's house for a course they know very little about so were dropped along the way and the ones that passed everything to the normal OAA standard have been ranked by scores and sent off to easyJet for them to decide who they want to take through to the final interviews. OAA don't really want people (I won't say kids as I'm only 17!) that know very little of the course and aren't aware of the risks and know nothing about the way easyJet operate and the contract and salary. It's as much of a waste of money for them as it will be for the person on the course so they're not really just taking on any kid who's parent's have a nice, big house.
And in terms of the risks, every route into flying has it's risks. I seem to be one of the only people on this forum that is for this MPL course and that isn't because I'm an uneducated 17 year old that is impatient and wants to rush into flying. I've done lots of research and I'm not just going off what OAA have told me, just as I'm not just going off what the extreme pessimists here at PPRUNE have been saying. I may well come out of this course and have to live in a studio flat or a shared flat for a few years with an old heap of metal dragging me to work every morning but I didn't apply and attend the assessment because I want to be a millionaire or because I wanted to walk through the terminal building with all the girls staring at me with their jaws to the ground. I am well aware that flying isn't what it used to be but to me this course offers somebody like me the insurance that they won't be stacking shelves for 3 years after completing the course while saving up for a type rating/paying off the loan/trying to live.
This is a course that puts somebody into the right hand seat of an easyJet A320 and is about £20k cheaper than the normal cadet route with everything taken into consideration. People that ask how long it will be until they can leave easyJet and if they'll have any problem moving away after the 1500 hours need to consider what they are doing. If you have no interest in flying for easyJet or just see it as a "stepping stone" then you shouldn't be throwing £100k into an EASYJET MENTORED scheme.
And in terms of the risks, every route into flying has it's risks. I seem to be one of the only people on this forum that is for this MPL course and that isn't because I'm an uneducated 17 year old that is impatient and wants to rush into flying. I've done lots of research and I'm not just going off what OAA have told me, just as I'm not just going off what the extreme pessimists here at PPRUNE have been saying. I may well come out of this course and have to live in a studio flat or a shared flat for a few years with an old heap of metal dragging me to work every morning but I didn't apply and attend the assessment because I want to be a millionaire or because I wanted to walk through the terminal building with all the girls staring at me with their jaws to the ground. I am well aware that flying isn't what it used to be but to me this course offers somebody like me the insurance that they won't be stacking shelves for 3 years after completing the course while saving up for a type rating/paying off the loan/trying to live.
This is a course that puts somebody into the right hand seat of an easyJet A320 and is about £20k cheaper than the normal cadet route with everything taken into consideration. People that ask how long it will be until they can leave easyJet and if they'll have any problem moving away after the 1500 hours need to consider what they are doing. If you have no interest in flying for easyJet or just see it as a "stepping stone" then you shouldn't be throwing £100k into an EASYJET MENTORED scheme.
Last edited by Callum Riseley; 22nd May 2011 at 19:32.
This is a course that puts somebody into the right hand seat of an easyJet A320 and is about £20k cheaper than the normal cadet route with everything taken into consideration.
. That must be a hell of a lot of raybans to wear while swanning around the local Sainsburys in your baby-pilot outfits.Also Airtours / MyTravel have already demonstrated the lack of suitability of the Airbus as a cadet trainer http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...JZ%2012-08.pdf
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: somewhere on this planet
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a course that puts somebody into the right hand seat of an easyJet A320 and is about £20k cheaper than the normal cadet route
the price they give is an estimated price. I would say it would cost you 30% more.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: At the whim of crewing
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What amazes me...
In spite of this recession, the recruitment freezes, the blocks, the airlines going bust, the thousands of experienced pilots out there without work, the lack of job stability at the moment and the overall total malaise in this industry...
There are still kids out there who want to put down £120k and buy themselves into a job.
Everybody considering this course should definately go to University, get some life experience, get a job working somewhere for a while and then see how they feel about flying. Flying isn't going anywhere at all, and just because you're in a rush to get into the Right Hand Seat of a shiny jet, you're willing to sell your soul to the devil.
I think anyone who considers this course equally needs to consider the implications of the loan too - it will cripple you. You won't be living in a shared flat, you won't even be able to drive a banger to work, because you won't be able to afford that much! For the first 2 years of my career, I ended up in a Student house, living off beans on toast, and if I wanted to put petrol into my car, I had to sacrifice it by not going on any social events. And I'm not even on this scheme... but the loan repayments will cripple you.
Go to Uni, get life experience, join the UAS, see if they'll accept you. You get your training paid for afterall!
This entire thing stinks of the British mentality at the moment "We want it, and we want it now!". Whatever happened to the goold old thought of "If we want something, we'll have to work towards it". We're just a greedy bunch of gits who believe it's our god given right to get what we want, now!
Bring back sponsored schemes.
A frustrated pilot, fed up with this industry and the way it is.
In spite of this recession, the recruitment freezes, the blocks, the airlines going bust, the thousands of experienced pilots out there without work, the lack of job stability at the moment and the overall total malaise in this industry...
There are still kids out there who want to put down £120k and buy themselves into a job.
Everybody considering this course should definately go to University, get some life experience, get a job working somewhere for a while and then see how they feel about flying. Flying isn't going anywhere at all, and just because you're in a rush to get into the Right Hand Seat of a shiny jet, you're willing to sell your soul to the devil.
I think anyone who considers this course equally needs to consider the implications of the loan too - it will cripple you. You won't be living in a shared flat, you won't even be able to drive a banger to work, because you won't be able to afford that much! For the first 2 years of my career, I ended up in a Student house, living off beans on toast, and if I wanted to put petrol into my car, I had to sacrifice it by not going on any social events. And I'm not even on this scheme... but the loan repayments will cripple you.
Go to Uni, get life experience, join the UAS, see if they'll accept you. You get your training paid for afterall!
This entire thing stinks of the British mentality at the moment "We want it, and we want it now!". Whatever happened to the goold old thought of "If we want something, we'll have to work towards it". We're just a greedy bunch of gits who believe it's our god given right to get what we want, now!
Bring back sponsored schemes.
A frustrated pilot, fed up with this industry and the way it is.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colchester
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fail to see how a salary of around £40,000 a year (minus the £10,000 a year if you take out the loan) would force somebody into student accommodation with no petrol and no dispensable income to attend social events? This option works out £20k cheaper than the usual integrated cadet way into easyJet as the type rating is included in the £85k costs and the pilot is on the full salary immediately after line training whereas I believe CTC pay the cadets about £1,200 a month for a year or something to regain the costs of the type rating. Like I said, I'm not applying to become a millionaire but I refuse to pay £9k a year tuition fees just so I can "build some life experience" and then get a job for a few years getting some more "life experience" while the whole time I've just got my head in the clouds. I could sit around for years wasting my time waiting for airlines to begin sponsoring again or I could move with the times and understand that to live the dream you have to make a few sacrifices.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I may well come out of this course and have to live in a studio flat or a shared flat for a few years with an old heap of metal dragging me to work every morning
You seem to be generally well informed (I agree with your assessment of the cost of uni, sadly) and aware of what you are looking at getting into, if you have considered all this and decide to press ahead then good luck to you, I hope you get a place on the course.
Just make sure you are prepared to take on a huge debt that will take many years of hard work and your hard earned cash to settle. It will have a big impact on the next decade of your life.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colchester
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am aware that this isn't a "salary" but instead a Parc Aviation hourly payed contract. Let's say for arguments sake that I decided (if I'd been offered a place) to turn this course down, go to university, work a bit and get some life experience and then come back in a few years.
I've been offered a place at 5 universities to study German and Spanish, so if I was to accept one of these places I'd be putting myself into about £60k worth of debt with the new tuition fees. I'd then leave college with no concrete career to go into as languages are just a general subject. Graduate unemployment figures in the UK are currently about 20% and with no concrete career path on such a general course finding a decent payed graduate job would be hard. I'd then probably end up as a freelance translator or something along those lines with no guaranteed work in a job that I'd absolutely loathe. I'd still be in £60k worth of debt with no secure income, all the while dreaming of flying an airliner. I'd THEN try and get into aviation having to take out an additional loan of about £90k (then an additional £30k for a type rating) which means I'm now in about £180k worth of debt and a lot older. If the aviation cycles are also true, the industry would also be on it's way down again and I'd generally be in no position to get into a flying job.
Or, I could start now. I've been working for 2 years now, admittedly just part time during my studies, however in addition to all of the money I've been given over the past 10 years since I first realised I wanted a flying career it's quite a bit. Then add that to the fact that I'm in a pretty well payed job at Stansted Airport at the moment and could potentially be working there for another year if I was offered a place on the last course date (July 2012) and having to pay nada in terms of housekeeping as I'm living with my parents. I'll then only have to take out a loan for less than half of the course price and living fees and so I can delay by quite a few months the repayments of the loan from the end of the course.
I may well be hourly payed, I may well not have guaranteed hours (except from the winter months) and it may well be the "worst deal in the history of easyJet" but who can really say that a useless degree, triple the debt and about 10 years of boredom and dreaming of flying is better than flying with about £500 a month worth of debt for 8-10 years?
I've been offered a place at 5 universities to study German and Spanish, so if I was to accept one of these places I'd be putting myself into about £60k worth of debt with the new tuition fees. I'd then leave college with no concrete career to go into as languages are just a general subject. Graduate unemployment figures in the UK are currently about 20% and with no concrete career path on such a general course finding a decent payed graduate job would be hard. I'd then probably end up as a freelance translator or something along those lines with no guaranteed work in a job that I'd absolutely loathe. I'd still be in £60k worth of debt with no secure income, all the while dreaming of flying an airliner. I'd THEN try and get into aviation having to take out an additional loan of about £90k (then an additional £30k for a type rating) which means I'm now in about £180k worth of debt and a lot older. If the aviation cycles are also true, the industry would also be on it's way down again and I'd generally be in no position to get into a flying job.
Or, I could start now. I've been working for 2 years now, admittedly just part time during my studies, however in addition to all of the money I've been given over the past 10 years since I first realised I wanted a flying career it's quite a bit. Then add that to the fact that I'm in a pretty well payed job at Stansted Airport at the moment and could potentially be working there for another year if I was offered a place on the last course date (July 2012) and having to pay nada in terms of housekeeping as I'm living with my parents. I'll then only have to take out a loan for less than half of the course price and living fees and so I can delay by quite a few months the repayments of the loan from the end of the course.
I may well be hourly payed, I may well not have guaranteed hours (except from the winter months) and it may well be the "worst deal in the history of easyJet" but who can really say that a useless degree, triple the debt and about 10 years of boredom and dreaming of flying is better than flying with about £500 a month worth of debt for 8-10 years?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ABZ
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been offered a place at 5 universities to study German and Spanish, so if I was to accept one of these places I'd be putting myself into about £60k worth of debt with the new tuition fees. I'd then leave college with no concrete career to go into as languages are just a general subject. Graduate unemployment figures in the UK are currently about 20% and with no concrete career path on such a general course finding a decent payed graduate job would be hard.
You're assuming that a languages degree won't help you find a "concrete" career.
It depends on what you're interested in, and where your skills lie, but many respectable companies from banks to a multitude of large multinationals would be quite happy to give you an interview based on a) your degree and b) the degree subject itself.
You could apply to HSBC, Unilever, British Airways (Graduate Programme)....etc. etc. The degree in languages will not hamper you (it may actually make you very attractive to companies with operations overseas.)
Relatively few companies specify specific subjects for their general graduate programmes - I know because I have applied to a few, including HSBC.
I take your point about the employment figures for graduates, but most degrees take 3 years to complete...I also take your point regarding student debt, but statistical evidence has shown that graduates have in many cases commanded higher salaries and faster promotion.
We're drifting off-topic here but my point was to poke some holes in your assumptions regarding the value of a good degree from a good Uni.
If in future you do apply to any other schemes, be sure you have seen the actual employment contract before signing any money away.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi there
Please dont shoot me down for this line of questioning.
However, OneHundredpercentPlease posted a few posts back that it was unfortunate that good guys were cut from the A320 course at the base training phase and that they would have otherwise made good pilots. Shouldn't that tell us that those cadets who have cut the mustard and passed the whole course are good enough. It seems from previous posts that the a/c is indeed a handful to fly/land and I feel that some sort of credit should be given to those who have passed the course without further remedial training.
So as a little thread drift I do therefore feel that those of us ex-modular students that are considering SSTR on an Airbus should not be criticised too much for "self selection" as some people blatantly accuse us of. The reality is that if I or anyone else (ex-CTC, ex-Oxford cadet or ex-modular) does an A320 rating at one of the big trto's and pass it well does it not mean that we too cut the mustard for passing such a tough course?
Please dont shoot me down for this line of questioning.
However, OneHundredpercentPlease posted a few posts back that it was unfortunate that good guys were cut from the A320 course at the base training phase and that they would have otherwise made good pilots. Shouldn't that tell us that those cadets who have cut the mustard and passed the whole course are good enough. It seems from previous posts that the a/c is indeed a handful to fly/land and I feel that some sort of credit should be given to those who have passed the course without further remedial training.
So as a little thread drift I do therefore feel that those of us ex-modular students that are considering SSTR on an Airbus should not be criticised too much for "self selection" as some people blatantly accuse us of. The reality is that if I or anyone else (ex-CTC, ex-Oxford cadet or ex-modular) does an A320 rating at one of the big trto's and pass it well does it not mean that we too cut the mustard for passing such a tough course?
Last edited by maxed-out; 23rd May 2011 at 18:19.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: the OFCR......and probably somewhere over China zzzzzzzz
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is the start date at OAA? I'd be interested to see how many pull out when BA open their scheme in the near future. Perhaps this would indicate how many are seeing this EZY scheme as 'the only way' into the right hand seat at the moment. ANy indiccation as to how many RAF "de-selectees" applied?
maxed-out,
The Airbus is a very straight forward aircraft to land. An experienced pilot has no problem at all, so long as they use the correct technique.
The issue is with learner pilots (generally considered as those with less than 1500 hours). When learning, it is good to have dual controls - so the FO can be safely corrected and so he can feel how it is done.
My point was that due to the incidents we have had, we are now nervous and somewhat trigger happy in the training. So what will become a good pilot at 1500 hours has his career ruined due to a mild mishap in the sim at 150 hours. Nothing to do with raw ability, just a combination of no experience and a moment of bad luck.
Do not believe that you can even approach the mustard with anything remotely sharp until you have a couple of years under your belt. And I can assure you that just because you can get through all the hoops at the beginning, you are not "there" yet. In fact, a healthy belief that you are no where near "there" is good for your entire career.
Callum,
As a pilot, you will always have a good Plan B (and most of the time a pretty broad outline on Plan C). Most pilots come from some kind of other background, and most have a degree. So if you lose your medical, get made redundant, get bored or get fired - you have another skill you can fall back on. You have to consider what position you will be in if the tender chain breaks at any point.
You also mention that you want to "live the dream". So many of us have chased that same dream too - only to discover that dreams are totally different to reality. I read a post on here once about waking yourself up at 3am and going for a one hour circular drive until you got back home. Then get into the cupboard under the stairs, close the door, and do simple sudokus for 10 hours (leave a Hoover on outside the cupboard for realistic noise). When done, do the same one hour circular drive. And repeat for 5 days in a row....
The Airbus is a very straight forward aircraft to land. An experienced pilot has no problem at all, so long as they use the correct technique.
The issue is with learner pilots (generally considered as those with less than 1500 hours). When learning, it is good to have dual controls - so the FO can be safely corrected and so he can feel how it is done.
My point was that due to the incidents we have had, we are now nervous and somewhat trigger happy in the training. So what will become a good pilot at 1500 hours has his career ruined due to a mild mishap in the sim at 150 hours. Nothing to do with raw ability, just a combination of no experience and a moment of bad luck.
Do not believe that you can even approach the mustard with anything remotely sharp until you have a couple of years under your belt. And I can assure you that just because you can get through all the hoops at the beginning, you are not "there" yet. In fact, a healthy belief that you are no where near "there" is good for your entire career.
Callum,
As a pilot, you will always have a good Plan B (and most of the time a pretty broad outline on Plan C). Most pilots come from some kind of other background, and most have a degree. So if you lose your medical, get made redundant, get bored or get fired - you have another skill you can fall back on. You have to consider what position you will be in if the tender chain breaks at any point.
You also mention that you want to "live the dream". So many of us have chased that same dream too - only to discover that dreams are totally different to reality. I read a post on here once about waking yourself up at 3am and going for a one hour circular drive until you got back home. Then get into the cupboard under the stairs, close the door, and do simple sudokus for 10 hours (leave a Hoover on outside the cupboard for realistic noise). When done, do the same one hour circular drive. And repeat for 5 days in a row....
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colchester
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did see a few military pilots at the easyJet selection.
HundredPercentPlease, I can completely understand where you are coming from but I have to assess the benefits vs the costs of delaying flying by 5-10 years to build up a plan B, and believe me I have! I applied to universities, got offers back and even sorted out accommodation so I could bide my time but I am not interested in going to university. It's not a decision I made without thought, but I could just imagine myself dropping out of the course after the first year. I'll be broke for 4 years, I'll be in triple the debt all current graduates are in and (this part is my own fault) I am not actually interested in literature and a massive part of a language degree is literature. I picked languages because I enjoy speaking them (and because I hate all the other courses I do at A Level) but you don't really need a degree to be able to speak a language!
I worked at McDonalds at the age of 15 and one of my managers who was on around £6 an hour had a degree from the university that I'd chosen and had been at McDonalds for years after his degree. I'm not saying degrees are worthless but unless you actually know what you want to do with it afterwards you can't really justify spending £60k on it. I have thought long and hard about what I'd do if I was made redundant or lost my medical and I wouldn't exactly be in a position to enter a well paid career but I'd certainly have lots of options available to me, many opened up by the languages, and could enter university or get other qualifications as a mature student.
In terms of the dream not being quite as dreamy as it sounds, I can assure you that the only job that I've actually ever dreamt of or considered doing is flying. So if after a few years I get bored of flying, then I'm sure you can imagine how bored I'd be doing office work/translating books etc.
I do hope that I've managed to counteract the stereotype somewhat. Not all of us 17 year old wannabes have no idea what we want and have been lured into the FTO's and are throwing daddy's house on the line without any consideration and risk/cost analysis. I've been saving birthday money since the age of about 7 for this.
HundredPercentPlease, I can completely understand where you are coming from but I have to assess the benefits vs the costs of delaying flying by 5-10 years to build up a plan B, and believe me I have! I applied to universities, got offers back and even sorted out accommodation so I could bide my time but I am not interested in going to university. It's not a decision I made without thought, but I could just imagine myself dropping out of the course after the first year. I'll be broke for 4 years, I'll be in triple the debt all current graduates are in and (this part is my own fault) I am not actually interested in literature and a massive part of a language degree is literature. I picked languages because I enjoy speaking them (and because I hate all the other courses I do at A Level) but you don't really need a degree to be able to speak a language!
I worked at McDonalds at the age of 15 and one of my managers who was on around £6 an hour had a degree from the university that I'd chosen and had been at McDonalds for years after his degree. I'm not saying degrees are worthless but unless you actually know what you want to do with it afterwards you can't really justify spending £60k on it. I have thought long and hard about what I'd do if I was made redundant or lost my medical and I wouldn't exactly be in a position to enter a well paid career but I'd certainly have lots of options available to me, many opened up by the languages, and could enter university or get other qualifications as a mature student.
In terms of the dream not being quite as dreamy as it sounds, I can assure you that the only job that I've actually ever dreamt of or considered doing is flying. So if after a few years I get bored of flying, then I'm sure you can imagine how bored I'd be doing office work/translating books etc.
I do hope that I've managed to counteract the stereotype somewhat. Not all of us 17 year old wannabes have no idea what we want and have been lured into the FTO's and are throwing daddy's house on the line without any consideration and risk/cost analysis. I've been saving birthday money since the age of about 7 for this.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HundredPercentPlease
Please forgive me for the shoddy nature of my post as it seems you've misunderstood me and the point I was trying to make. Allow me to put you in the picture.
I have been practicing in the UK for the past 12 years in a medical related field. As the regulatory body which governs my profession looks down on career changing hopefuls for fear of supervised neglect I cannot be more specific if its medical, dental or physiotherapy etc. All I can say is that it takes 6 years to become one. Everyday I go to work and treat people in need of my services. Today I learnt something new as I did yesterday and the day before. Whether its about how to address more sensitive issues w.r.t treatment or simply a regulatory issue of this bloody NHS, I am learning every day. Point is if anyone on this thread knows anything about continuing professional development, I'm certainly one of them. (along with oher professionals on this form)
All I meant by my post was that (and I possibly posted this on the wrong thread and should have started my own) even people selected on Airline Sponsored Training in the past have failed at the base training phase. So despite the fact that the airline had funded some/all of the flying training from the outset, they (the airline) didn't want to subsidise further remedial sessions to make sure that only the best get through and not people who need re-training. Airforce a prime example of this.
So a "self selected modular student" like myself doing an SSTR would not have the luxury of the thought that the airline is picking up the tab and that any remedial training would probably end up costing loads more or being swiftly axed from the course and losing my hard earned money. If I did fund my own A320 TR and I did pass it well, why should I be frowned upon when others who were pre-selected pre-Atpl (i.e integrated) have failed at that crucial hurdel of TR.
Sure I may have cut the mustard to pass the TR but by no means am I Top Gun and by no means did I imply this as you so eloquently implied in the last line of your post addressed to me.
Please forgive me for the shoddy nature of my post as it seems you've misunderstood me and the point I was trying to make. Allow me to put you in the picture.
I have been practicing in the UK for the past 12 years in a medical related field. As the regulatory body which governs my profession looks down on career changing hopefuls for fear of supervised neglect I cannot be more specific if its medical, dental or physiotherapy etc. All I can say is that it takes 6 years to become one. Everyday I go to work and treat people in need of my services. Today I learnt something new as I did yesterday and the day before. Whether its about how to address more sensitive issues w.r.t treatment or simply a regulatory issue of this bloody NHS, I am learning every day. Point is if anyone on this thread knows anything about continuing professional development, I'm certainly one of them. (along with oher professionals on this form)
All I meant by my post was that (and I possibly posted this on the wrong thread and should have started my own) even people selected on Airline Sponsored Training in the past have failed at the base training phase. So despite the fact that the airline had funded some/all of the flying training from the outset, they (the airline) didn't want to subsidise further remedial sessions to make sure that only the best get through and not people who need re-training. Airforce a prime example of this.
So a "self selected modular student" like myself doing an SSTR would not have the luxury of the thought that the airline is picking up the tab and that any remedial training would probably end up costing loads more or being swiftly axed from the course and losing my hard earned money. If I did fund my own A320 TR and I did pass it well, why should I be frowned upon when others who were pre-selected pre-Atpl (i.e integrated) have failed at that crucial hurdel of TR.
Sure I may have cut the mustard to pass the TR but by no means am I Top Gun and by no means did I imply this as you so eloquently implied in the last line of your post addressed to me.
Last edited by maxed-out; 23rd May 2011 at 21:44.
maxed-out,
I see.
There are plenty of issues arising from this thread. The trainee is paying too much money for not enough licence, is bearing too much risk and is restricted to one operator when released onto the line.
The operator is exposed to higher risk, having a wide range of very low hour pilots flying an aircraft without dual controls. The operator mitigates that risk by being more inclined to chop than to re-train (this is in response to incidents, not trying to save money).
It's a bad place for everyone, except for the fact that the TRTOs are raking it in, and the operators get very cheap, disposable and "flexible" workers. As usual, it's all about the money.
Of course it's not right, and it's not fair. And less safe.
We need to go back to employing 1500+ hour ex TP/mil pilots. The risk is lower for us and for the pilot. Newbies need to do a standard course, which is lower risk for them (full licence and no employer restriction) with a correctly priced (or free/bonded) TR. They need to go to TP operators, to learn the basics on a dual control lighter and simpler aircraft, where the risk (of being chopped) is lower and the reward is a better foundation of skill. Someone who spent their first 2 years driving in a 1960 LandRover with half a turn of play in the steering will be better prepared for the S Class Merc when it comes.
I didn't mean to take the operator perspective. Most of us on the line believe that a stepped path into an Airbus is better than "direct entry". For everyone. I have a sneaky suspicion that in two years time we may well be back to that system.
You shouldn't be frowned on, and I don't think you are. But you present less of an opportunity for at least two other organisations to make a lot of money out of you, so at present you may well be neglected. Target TP operators and get stuck in there. By the time you have 1500 hours, you may well be in a perfect position, and when the times comes you may find it a lot easier to pass the command assessments.
I see.
There are plenty of issues arising from this thread. The trainee is paying too much money for not enough licence, is bearing too much risk and is restricted to one operator when released onto the line.
The operator is exposed to higher risk, having a wide range of very low hour pilots flying an aircraft without dual controls. The operator mitigates that risk by being more inclined to chop than to re-train (this is in response to incidents, not trying to save money).
It's a bad place for everyone, except for the fact that the TRTOs are raking it in, and the operators get very cheap, disposable and "flexible" workers. As usual, it's all about the money.
Of course it's not right, and it's not fair. And less safe.
We need to go back to employing 1500+ hour ex TP/mil pilots. The risk is lower for us and for the pilot. Newbies need to do a standard course, which is lower risk for them (full licence and no employer restriction) with a correctly priced (or free/bonded) TR. They need to go to TP operators, to learn the basics on a dual control lighter and simpler aircraft, where the risk (of being chopped) is lower and the reward is a better foundation of skill. Someone who spent their first 2 years driving in a 1960 LandRover with half a turn of play in the steering will be better prepared for the S Class Merc when it comes.
I didn't mean to take the operator perspective. Most of us on the line believe that a stepped path into an Airbus is better than "direct entry". For everyone. I have a sneaky suspicion that in two years time we may well be back to that system.
You shouldn't be frowned on, and I don't think you are. But you present less of an opportunity for at least two other organisations to make a lot of money out of you, so at present you may well be neglected. Target TP operators and get stuck in there. By the time you have 1500 hours, you may well be in a perfect position, and when the times comes you may find it a lot easier to pass the command assessments.
A lot of good points being made here.
WWW
WWW
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HundredPercentPlease
Thank you very much for your response and I think what you say about this lousy MPL scheme is very true. Any person undertaking this route is foolish and may find themselves between an "operator-specific-A320-rating" and a hard place when the mango hits the fan!
As for me I'm in my second season of part-time GA flying since qualifying and been fortunate enough to have a gig flying single engine turbine as P1.
I agree with your comments about the traditional route and have appoached TP operators; alas without success. My only concern is my age and that without SSTR (TP or JET) I might never get there. If you know a bit more about TP operators and I have possibly overlooked a route into one of these operators I will gladly accept a PM from you. You're obviously an experienced pilot that knows the industry well and might be able to help.
Thanx again HPP for your valuable comments.
Thank you very much for your response and I think what you say about this lousy MPL scheme is very true. Any person undertaking this route is foolish and may find themselves between an "operator-specific-A320-rating" and a hard place when the mango hits the fan!
As for me I'm in my second season of part-time GA flying since qualifying and been fortunate enough to have a gig flying single engine turbine as P1.
I agree with your comments about the traditional route and have appoached TP operators; alas without success. My only concern is my age and that without SSTR (TP or JET) I might never get there. If you know a bit more about TP operators and I have possibly overlooked a route into one of these operators I will gladly accept a PM from you. You're obviously an experienced pilot that knows the industry well and might be able to help.
Thanx again HPP for your valuable comments.