Getting that first 1000 hours when your country has zero GA
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National language is Malay
widely spoken language is English
widely spoken language is English
Doesn't make a difference since the point was that not everyone in Singapore learnt Bahasa.
Thanks ReverseFlight. Will take what you said into consideration.
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The 1000TT for Susi applied to Captains, as far as I'm aware. They fly multicrew even on single crew certified aircraft such as the Caravan.
From what I've been told, it's not a good company and neither are the employment conditions, but beggars can't be choosers, and it worked out very well indeed for the lad I knew who got his first few hundred turbine hours with them. If I may add, this European gentleman was capable of speaking decent Indonesian by the time he left, less than a year latter.
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Mandarin is fine with me.
Susi Air's reqs for the RHS is 400 TT, plus SEL. Something which I haven't got.
You're right about beggars not being choosers.
Susi Air's reqs for the RHS is 400 TT, plus SEL. Something which I haven't got.
You're right about beggars not being choosers.
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there are too many clowns willing to work for nothing or even pay to work, and unfortunately those guys usually get further than other decent, hard working guys
I've just done a really crude survey of people I know (friends, colleagues and "other". "Other" are pilots I know well enough to say hi too on the ramp and have shared a brew and/quick chats with).
Of those less than 5% have been or are P2F.
I'm not going to comment on how I would feel if I lost my job to someone as they could do it cheaper, but I will say that this happens in many other industries. I have family who have lost jobs (outside of aviation) and had to re-apply for their job only to see themselves lose out. Is it tough? Of course it is. Is it unfair? Of course it is. Did they dwell on it? Of course at the initial shock and then the coping mechanism kicked in and every one of them has moved on to bigger and better things.
It can be tough in any industry and you can lose your job doing just about anything and aviation is no different.
I'm by no means supporting P2F, but I would suggest you try to move forward to the final stage of your coping mechanism which is "acceptance". Accept for the time being that P2F is here and that people will use it.
Next thing is to look for an alternative strategy. Perhaps to get a job outside of aviation (or a non-flying one in it) with a plan to do x number of hours "for fun" and to remind yourself why you love flying. I would also suggest part of the plan is to come on here less. It can be a very very depressing forum, even during the "good times" it was still full of doom and gloom as generally people only write about the crap time they are having, then they look back at that time and remember them as the "good old days".
What you very very rarely hear on here are the success stories and people loving their job. Why? Well they don't come on here very often. I'm one of them, I have the odd read on here once or twice a fortnight but I always leave feeling a bit sad. Just before I close down PPRuNe I have a quick look in one of the happier sections. Trust me this place is genuinely a depressing place to hang out.
The above probably sounds really patronising and I've re-read it and tried to tone it down a bit but there are too many words of advice such as "hang in there" etc which I just think is wrong. It suggests you're on your last legs and might just make it. You're not on your last legs and you might not make it.
I'm off to Jet Blast now.
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Windypops,
I respect your opinion, and somehow agree that Pprune isn't the most positive place in the world, and that there's only 1 way to succeed, that is acceptance and adaptation as you correctly say.
But the situation the industry is, is absolutely crazy. Honestly I can't think of any other industry in which the employee has to pay such huge sums of money, under such risk, for so little return.
On the other hand, my statistic is somehow different.
Of the people I know (buddies or acquaintances) that have been hired by airlines in the last 3-4 years most of them (+95%?) indeed had to pay for their type rating and accept a very low salary.
Some of them have spent 3-4 years instructing and eventually realized there was no other way to move up the ladder (their IRI/CRI t&c weren't that competitive lately neither).
I respect your opinion, and somehow agree that Pprune isn't the most positive place in the world, and that there's only 1 way to succeed, that is acceptance and adaptation as you correctly say.
But the situation the industry is, is absolutely crazy. Honestly I can't think of any other industry in which the employee has to pay such huge sums of money, under such risk, for so little return.
On the other hand, my statistic is somehow different.
Of the people I know (buddies or acquaintances) that have been hired by airlines in the last 3-4 years most of them (+95%?) indeed had to pay for their type rating and accept a very low salary.
Some of them have spent 3-4 years instructing and eventually realized there was no other way to move up the ladder (their IRI/CRI t&c weren't that competitive lately neither).
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pablo,
you are right.
but this work only if there are jobs outside.
with no job, you don't build hours, you stay at home....
in EU, there is NO job for a `200h pilot, and even a 10'000h captain like me has problems!
you are right.
but this work only if there are jobs outside.
with no job, you don't build hours, you stay at home....
in EU, there is NO job for a `200h pilot, and even a 10'000h captain like me has problems!
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In that case, that I reckon puts you at a certain advantage once you have bagged some experience.
They must have changed their requirements since 2009. Clearly a sign of the times that even them are getting choosy.
The only other idea I can think of: a year or two ago I heard there was demand for flight instructors in Indonesia and Vietnam (also in the Persian Gulf). Try researching if that's still the case, and consider getting an FI ticket. Other than this, I've run out of ideas.
Btw, what is an SEL? It is not a term that I recognise from my JAR training.
Susi Air's reqs for the RHS is 400 TT, plus SEL. Something which I haven't got.
They must have changed their requirements since 2009. Clearly a sign of the times that even them are getting choosy.The only other idea I can think of: a year or two ago I heard there was demand for flight instructors in Indonesia and Vietnam (also in the Persian Gulf). Try researching if that's still the case, and consider getting an FI ticket. Other than this, I've run out of ideas.
Btw, what is an SEL? It is not a term that I recognise from my JAR training.
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SEL - Single Engine Land.
JAR doesn't have a distinction between Commercial Single Engine and Multi Engine?
I've been trying to look for instructor jobs in Indonesia... So far no replies to any emails i've sent. Have a feeling Indonesia requires in-person submissions with some grease on the wheels..
JAR doesn't have a distinction between Commercial Single Engine and Multi Engine?
I've been trying to look for instructor jobs in Indonesia... So far no replies to any emails i've sent. Have a feeling Indonesia requires in-person submissions with some grease on the wheels..
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captainsuperstorm I would bet good money you are having problems because your attitude on here comes across on any application and any subsequent interviews, or your reputation precedes you.
It doesn't take much to get a bad reputation amongst your peers and this is a small industry where names of "good eggs" and "bad eggs" are discussed.
There are jobs for 200h pilots in Europe, I know of a few recently taken on, currently doing type ratings. If you had said there were "not many" jobs I would have agreed, but to say "none" is false.
As for 10,000 hour pilots there are jobs, I know of some right now open for application, just need to know where to look.
It doesn't take much to get a bad reputation amongst your peers and this is a small industry where names of "good eggs" and "bad eggs" are discussed.
There are jobs for 200h pilots in Europe, I know of a few recently taken on, currently doing type ratings. If you had said there were "not many" jobs I would have agreed, but to say "none" is false.
As for 10,000 hour pilots there are jobs, I know of some right now open for application, just need to know where to look.
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Cheers.
Under JAR / EASA, the licence is either private, commercial, or ATPL, and fixed wing or helicopter. Then we have type ratings for anything big (the actual rules are complicated), and class ratings for anything small. Within the latter, you have SEP-Land (Single Engine Piston, Land), MEP-Land (Multi Engine Piston), SET-Land (Single Engine Turbine, Land. What you need for a Caravan, and more of a type than a class rating in a way), and SEP-Sea, MEP-Sea, SET-Sea... perhaps a few other classes as well. This is just a rough outline, but essentially, under JAR (now EASA) rules you need to do an SET rating or conversion if you want to fly a 208.
I get the impression that's very likely the case.
JAR doesn't have a distinction between Commercial Single Engine and Multi Engine?
I've been trying to look for instructor jobs in Indonesia... So far no replies to any emails i've sent. Have a feeling Indonesia requires in-person submissions with some grease on the wheels..
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It always takes a turn...
Seems like most of the posts takes a turn and ends up cursing how bad the industry is doing and the initial post loses the point. How to get 1000 hours.
Not sure if getting a license in Europe would make it any different, given the cost is too high, but anyway, maybe you should put it up with the Singapore Airlines and jsut send in your application either ways on the cadet program. Might work out?
I guess, you being a singaporean you should be given prefrence to work in Singapore Airlines then others. And singapore seems preety noble place, so they might just listen to you.
Not sure if getting a license in Europe would make it any different, given the cost is too high, but anyway, maybe you should put it up with the Singapore Airlines and jsut send in your application either ways on the cadet program. Might work out?
I guess, you being a singaporean you should be given prefrence to work in Singapore Airlines then others. And singapore seems preety noble place, so they might just listen to you.
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There are jobs for 200h pilots in Europe, I know of a few recently taken on, currently doing type ratings. If you had said there were "not many" jobs I would have agreed, but to say "none" is false.
nobody want YOU!!! because you have a bad attitude as well.
seriously, for 1 position, you have not 20, 30, 100 pilots, you have thousand of pilots who applied, this is why I say there is NO job.
you can look in africa, indonesia, europe, US, S america, it s everywhere the same.
get a clue, we are in a worldwide crisis and it s not finished.As long we stay in this bad climate of recession, market will be bad.
Last edited by captainsuperstorm; 27th Jan 2011 at 07:36.
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Seems like most of the posts takes a turn and ends up cursing how bad the industry is doing and the initial post loses the point. How to get 1000 hours.
Not sure if getting a license in Europe would make it any different, given the cost is too high, but anyway, maybe you should put it up with the Singapore Airlines and jsut send in your application either ways on the cadet program. Might work out?
I guess, you being a singaporean you should be given prefrence to work in Singapore Airlines then others. And singapore seems preety noble place, so they might just listen to you.
Not sure if getting a license in Europe would make it any different, given the cost is too high, but anyway, maybe you should put it up with the Singapore Airlines and jsut send in your application either ways on the cadet program. Might work out?
I guess, you being a singaporean you should be given prefrence to work in Singapore Airlines then others. And singapore seems preety noble place, so they might just listen to you.
I'm not sure what Singapore Airlines policy is exactly, but consider the following.
They recruit cadets in India. Minimum Age 18.
They recruit cadets from Malaysia. Minimum Age 18.
They recruit cadets from Singapore. Minimum Age 25-26 (not sure what the exact number is)
The official reason is that they have an agreement with Singapore's Airforce, in that any Singaporean wanting to be a pilot has to first go through the airforce. (Airforce has first dibs, if you will)
I have applied to Singapore Airlines throught their online application system, twice. Both times they were automatically rejected within 5 minutes of submission.
I've already resigned myself to never being able to fly for Singapore Airlines.
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seriously, for 1 position, you have not 20, 30, 100 pilots, you have thousand of pilots who applied, this is why I say there is NO job
A bad trait to have as a pilot is not admitting when you might be wrong.
We took on a few pilots last year and didn't have anywhere near the numbers you are quoting applying. Like I say you need to know where to look, best way to do this is to network network network.
I got my first job by chatting to people and they effectively convinced the boss to take me on, albeit part time, but it worked. A few months later and a full time position came up with another operator, I applied and got in. Good T&C's (pension, health care, profit share, loss of licence and more), interesting routes, "performance A" aircraft etc.
I also appreciate that I've been very very lucky, but I like to think I made some of that luck myself.
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Mynameisjon
I dont wish to sound nasty or vitriolic by this comment but isnt this an issue that you should have addressed or thought about BEFORE obtaining your licence? Surely you had had some sort of "game plan"? The zero GA in your country didnt just happen overnight. You have (like thousands of others)trained for a career in which there are few jobs around and im sure you were told this before you began. It cant really come as a surprise.
I really wish you the best of luck and please believe me that my comments are meant to be scathing and arent even directly aimed at you. But i just cant understand how the desire to become a pilot sometimes seems to make some people lose sight of logic and realism.
good luck in your endeavours and that is sincerely meant
I dont wish to sound nasty or vitriolic by this comment but isnt this an issue that you should have addressed or thought about BEFORE obtaining your licence? Surely you had had some sort of "game plan"? The zero GA in your country didnt just happen overnight. You have (like thousands of others)trained for a career in which there are few jobs around and im sure you were told this before you began. It cant really come as a surprise.
I really wish you the best of luck and please believe me that my comments are meant to be scathing and arent even directly aimed at you. But i just cant understand how the desire to become a pilot sometimes seems to make some people lose sight of logic and realism.
good luck in your endeavours and that is sincerely meant
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Mynameisjon
I dont wish to sound nasty or vitriolic by this comment but isnt this an issue that you should have addressed or thought about BEFORE obtaining your licence? Surely you had had some sort of "game plan"? The zero GA in your country didnt just happen overnight. You have (like thousands of others)trained for a career in which there are few jobs around and im sure you were told this before you began. It cant really come as a surprise.
I really wish you the best of luck and please believe me that my comments are meant to be scathing and arent even directly aimed at you. But i just cant understand how the desire to become a pilot sometimes seems to make some people lose sight of logic and realism.
good luck in your endeavours and that is sincerely meant
I dont wish to sound nasty or vitriolic by this comment but isnt this an issue that you should have addressed or thought about BEFORE obtaining your licence? Surely you had had some sort of "game plan"? The zero GA in your country didnt just happen overnight. You have (like thousands of others)trained for a career in which there are few jobs around and im sure you were told this before you began. It cant really come as a surprise.
I really wish you the best of luck and please believe me that my comments are meant to be scathing and arent even directly aimed at you. But i just cant understand how the desire to become a pilot sometimes seems to make some people lose sight of logic and realism.
good luck in your endeavours and that is sincerely meant
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Its a pitty
The Agent thing was certainly dubious, I hope something works out for you.
I didn't knew that Singapore Airlines and Singapore was like that, i did see the cadet ship for the indians and other citizens. That certainly sucks.
In my country, it has to be the citizen of the country that gets the job first. No matter what, else as per the new democrazy the government would be beaten up. They are few expats but very few to jst finish up the initial hours or till the time the pilots are ready and only if its a new kind of aircraft that doesnt fly in the country.
Did you check in botswana? they is a charter company that has a good procedure to hire. You can try.
and as per the previous posts, jobs like those do come from contacts and your network.
Btw why not join the airforce? that would give u jet hours straight right?
I didn't knew that Singapore Airlines and Singapore was like that, i did see the cadet ship for the indians and other citizens. That certainly sucks.
In my country, it has to be the citizen of the country that gets the job first. No matter what, else as per the new democrazy the government would be beaten up. They are few expats but very few to jst finish up the initial hours or till the time the pilots are ready and only if its a new kind of aircraft that doesnt fly in the country.
Did you check in botswana? they is a charter company that has a good procedure to hire. You can try.
and as per the previous posts, jobs like those do come from contacts and your network.
Btw why not join the airforce? that would give u jet hours straight right?
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A postscript to the original topic of this thread.
Japan is another country where there is no GA between flight school and the airlines. If a Japanese wannabe works in GA overseas and returns to Japan for a job in the airlines, the cost of conversion is US$80,000. This represents a huge barrier to entry despite the airlines paying for and bonding you for your type rating. The alternative is to train from ab initio in Japan which costs at least 3 times as much as the most expensive training in the rest of the world, which does not make economic sense.
Japan is another country where there is no GA between flight school and the airlines. If a Japanese wannabe works in GA overseas and returns to Japan for a job in the airlines, the cost of conversion is US$80,000. This represents a huge barrier to entry despite the airlines paying for and bonding you for your type rating. The alternative is to train from ab initio in Japan which costs at least 3 times as much as the most expensive training in the rest of the world, which does not make economic sense.