4 years on...

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I have just been surfing these forums, and thought it might be nice idea to here from people who succeeded in getting into the role of a professional pilot, maybe in the last 3 or 4 years, and see if it is everything you expected and are you still enjoying it?

I posted a thread on PPRUNE sharing my delight of landing my first job, and 4 years on (where has the time gone?), I am still having a ball. Spending last year hoping I would not be made redundant was tough, and keeping my job was something positive after sitting out a tough time, but still being employed is something I really appreciate, as I also know people who have suffered.

I havent seen anything from G-SXTY for a while, so would be great to hear from him and others.

Cheers guys.

[cyrilroy21]

Care to give you story from begining to this day ?

[MIKECR]

Well its been over a year or so now for me since getting the first job. Took nearly 3 years to get it....and ironically got it in the peak of the recession! All I can say is im loving the job and look forward to going in every day. Bonded TR, great company, great people, great flying.....all in all worth all the hard work and effort. Uk based TP company.

[hollingworthp]

I can't hope to improve on the superb thread from G-SXTY, but here is at least my brief story. I couldn't be more happy with the improvement in my conditions from 4 years ago.

Pretty much 4 years to the day, I was still stuck at home full-time surviving on carers allowance / income support etc having given up my self-employed work 2 years prior to care for my wife. Her rapidly deteriorating Multiple Sclerosis had taken her from a 'normal' walking, working/studying condition to being confined to a hospital bed in the living room of our 2-bed semi in the space of 6 months. In Jan 2005 I heard about the NetJets cadet scheme and being 28 (at the time), no degree and out of work, I was not optimistic. She had just been offered Chemotherapy as a trial treatment for her MS and was a a short way into that.

Long story short, by the first August bank-holiday of 2007 I was preparing to start my course at Oxford having been offered a place on the scheme (and finally sorted out the funding as this was not a sponsored scheme). In the time from Jan to August my wife was showing some good recovery, regaining movement etc (it had gotten that bad). I was to stay at home and commute to ground-school (being only 10 miles from Kidlington). During those first 6 months her condition continued to improve.

In March 08 - with some trepidation on the part of both my wife & I - I set off to Arizona for 5 months of basic flight training up to CPL. I really enjoyed the time in the states and my wife continued to improve so rapidly that she was able to come out to Arizona with her parents for a 2 week holiday. I rented a house with a pool etc and it was great to see how far she (and we) had come.

By the end of November 08 the MCC/JOC was done and the course at Oxford was all but complete. NJE had amended the course slightly to add on 5 hours aerobatics (presumably to improve handling for jet-upsets etc) and 5 hours of VFR flight around the TMA. It took me till early February to finish that based on Weather and I also gave priority to the other cadets who were keen to get home and I was still living in mine during the training.

It was touch and go whether we would even start with NetJets and our Indoc date was pushed several times but eventually we received the date in March which happened to be 2 days after our graduation ball from Oxford. So with some pretty stinking hangovers, the 7 cadets who graduated on my course set out for Lisbon from the ball the following morning and had the Sunday to recover in the hotel before starting our first paid day with the company.

You didn't find out what fleet you were on until you found your name-card indicating you seat in the welcome room at Indoc. There were all the manuals for your aircraft and I do remember feeling a little disappointed with the Excel as I remember preferring the Hawker 800 at the time. (Looking back on it, I am VERY glad to have the Excel as it is a much more marketable rating). This rating is bonded for 24 months, decreasing by 1 month for every month of service.

For the first few flights, I remember feeling like an imposter, that I shouldn't have been there. I was still mentally sat in the FBO back at our departure airport by the time we had landed - that's how far behind the aircraft I felt. Now with 500 hours on type, I am still hugely grateful for the knowledge & experience of the person sitting to my left. Just last weekend I operated as a Pilots Assistant (not sure on the legally correct term - but more on that later) on a Beach King Air 200 for a set of Air Ambulance flights and my enormous respect for single-pilot IFR was renewed!

Only a few months into my employment, a raft of voluntary cost-saving options were announced to mitigate compulsory job loses (scary for anyone, but I now had a hefty amount of investment into a licence which would be worthless even as a paperweight should I lose my job). So I went for a 4 year Job Share starting 1st August 2009. Basically on that date I dropped to 60% salary (100% is €56500 so I was still doing MUCH better than on state benefits - particularly when you add in a tax break we had from HMRC giving us €20,000 per year free of tax as a Return of Training Expenses). The first year of job share was a 'year on' where I worked as usual but on reduced salary. The come 1st August 2010 I started a year of paid leave (still 60%).

There is a clause allowing us to fly for other companies during our year off - but being of such low hours, I was not expecting to find anything.

But find something I did (thanks to the significantly more marketable Excel rating) and I was only at home for 5-6 weeks before starting with another company who have given me a fully employed contract until I return to NJE for another year on this coming August. I am not flying as much as I did at NetJets - but I am getting paid 2 salaries for not flying, so have no real grounds for complaint. Plus my wife continues to improve and is now largely independent. I have had LOADS of time to work on the house and have more time than is healthy on this site. But there we go - not a bad change from 4 years ago!

PS - I love my job(s) and don't regret a single day of it. That said, would I recommend training afresh to someone now (or in the last 2 years) - no I would not. When I started back in early-mid 2007, things were still rosy, BA still offering Oxford students jobs before their Instrument training etc.

EDIT - I forgot to add anything about the King Air flight. The company where I am now has operates (in addition to Excels and several other types) a few King Airs. These are certified as single pilot but the company likes to always operate a PA in the Right Seat to operate radios, read checklists, deal with pax / fuel / fbo etc. I had volunteered for standby and got called out to do 4 flights for a heart transplant for Gt Ormand St. Having the Air Ambulance in the callsign is pretty handy for short cuts and even getting Heathrow to allow you to land on the 'take off' runway at 7am

[J-10]

That is a very inspirational story hollingworthp

I'm sitting mod2 at Bristol soon (considering the oxford waypoint programme), hopefully i can share a similar story a year or two down the line

[Artie Fufkin]

I finished my IR a little over 5 years ago. I have since managed to blag my way into the LHS of a jet, am earning a tidy salary and can count on my fingers the number of days at work I haven't enjoyed. As you can imagine, I feel pretty happy with my lot. However, a lot of the guys I know in a similar situation are really pissed off and are desperate to move on.

I think nearly all still enjoy the thrill of flying, but I do feel that many had unrealistic expectations of the job. Your life is held to ransom by the crewing department, you will need to get out of bed at an ungodly hour for weeks on end, you may need to commute to the other end of the country for work, you will be busiest during summer and will be heading off to work just as all your mates are off to the pub / barbeque on that summer bank holiday weekend, and you always have in the back of your mind that if your employer folds, you may have to emigrate to China / Middle East / India to stay in work.

There are a huge number of downsides to the job, but all the above are things people told me to know and accept before I even thought about training. Personally, like most of the guys & girls I fly with, the first sector of the day is spent bitching and slagging off management, but its all rather superficial - on balance, its still the best job in the world, by a long, long way.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Chaps some great stories there, I hope it inspires guys like J-10 to hang in there and pursue the dream. hollingworthp, I have a lot of respect for your story sir.

cyrilroy21, certainly I can give an abbreviated sequence of events since I started, but I dont want to bore everyone to tears!

My interest from aviation came from my father back in the late 70's early eighties, he was an engineer with Pan Am. From about the age of 5, I knew in my heart that being a professional pilot was going to satisfy my career requirements, I had certainly developed a passion for it. Throughout my childhood I spent alot of time finding out more and more about the industry and learning more and more about aircraft. I remember many summers spent on top on the queens building with my parker jacket on, complete with binoculars watching aircraft hoping that one day I would be sitting in the sharp end of a heavy jet.

Going through school, I didnt work as hard as I should have done, and didnt do particularly well at GSCE level, and started to think that I didnt have the aptitude for flying. I spent a couple of years trying to get into BA for there engineering apprenticeship, but was never successful. At the age of 16, I went off to college to study mechanical engineering, where I managed to come out with some very good results, which inspired me to go for my dream job of being a pilot. The bottom line was, as soon as I left school I got my finger out of my ass and done some work. From here I went on to higher education completing a HND in Aerospace Studies, and finally a degree in Aerospace Engineering. I never thought I could achieve this, so I was delighted and it made me more determined to succeed. While I was at college I had a part time job at Tesco where I saved up the money to complete my PPL, this was in 1995, god 16 years ago! 7 years service at Tesco served me well, it gave me the money to fund the PPL and several years of annual hour building to keep current. I spent many happy hours in the florida sunshine flying around and having fun.

All the above took 6 years, and in amongst that time I had applied to every airline under the sun for sponsorship to which I was never successful. Having those doors shut in my face was hard, but I just carried on and again it made me more determined. I was getting to the age of being too old for sponsorship to I decided that I would sponsor myself and go into industry to save up the money required. I was lucky to get a job in the aerospace engineering industry as a designer/planner, and the place I worked was 20 mins walk from my house so it was perfect. I didnt need a car, which saved me some cash, and I didnt change my life style, I would live as if I had still been working in a super market part time while at college, and would save all the surplus cash I had earned. After 4 years of working full time and part time some evenings, I had managed to bank a shade under 40K. In 2002 I left my job as an engineer, and went to the US to complete the hour building phase to make me eligible to start the CPL course. On my return, while having a beer in my local, I bumped into one of my old bosses, and he asked me if I wanted to return to work as a contractor, to work on the refit program for Concorde. This all worked out perfectly, as from the time I had come back from the US, it was pretty much 6 months until my ATPL ground school course started in London. This allowed me to save up some more cash towards my training.

It was 2003 when I started my ATPL ground school at London Met, and spent 6 months great months there. It was hard work, but I met a great bunch of guys, who I still know to this day. We all popped out the other end with our exams passed and were looking forward to the flying phase.

I had lived in London for the ground school, so I had to return to live with my folks while I completed the professional flying phase. I completed the CPL/IR over a period of a year, along with a part time job doing some private hire driving which was a lot of fun. One of the reasons the flying took a while was I injured myself playing squash which put me out of action for 3 months while I was doing my CPL. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as during my return to the latter part of the CPL and the commencement of the IR I became great friends with a guy, Dave, who worked as a dispatcher for an airline based at LHR. We both went through the IR together, back seating each others lessons, and both passed the IR test on the same day late 2004. Dave had made some contacts in the airline and secured an interview in the March of 2005, and later got the job as a pilot starting on the A320, obviously he was delighted and I was delighted for him!

I struggled to get a job so elected to do a flying instructor course at the school I had done my CPL/IR at. I finished that in the summer of 2005 and was then employed at the school as a FI. A lot of the guys I had studied with had gone off to do type ratings, which seemed to be a good bet, and they all ended up with jobs flying various jets. I just didnt have the cash for this, and really wanted to see if I could get an airline job without having to do a type rating.

I instructed for just under 2 years. I really enjoyed this time of my life, it was a lot of fun, but as most instructors will tell you, it is poorly paid and very difficult to live. I got to the winter of 2006, and Dave had told me the airline he worked for were thinking about recruiting and he would recommend me, to which I was so thankful for. By this time I was in my early thirties and was weighing up my options. I had been given some information from some of my ATPL friends regarding type ratings (who were now employed) to which I was trying to resist, but I decided to bite the bullet and do an Airbus course. Of course this was a gamble which I reluctantly took. I did this course late 2006, early 2007. In the February of 2007 I received an email from the airline Dave had recommended me to saying could I come for an interview. I couldnt believe it, the timing had been perfect. On passing the interview (I had never been so nervous as I knew this was the big one!), I went through the sim ride, and was offered a first officer position based at London Heathrow on the Airbus A320. I tell you guys, it was like winning the lottery, I was so pleased.

After around 3 months of training I was finally a fully qualified First Officer, I couldnt believe it, after all those years the hard work, blood sweat and tears had paid off.

After everything I had done since the age of 5 to try and get there, makes me really appreciate the job now. Making a living from flying is a great way to spend your time if you have that flare and passion for aviation.

As my original thread states it has been 4 years since I started, and I have just been promoted to SFO. Time to command is uncertain, but to be honest the main goal has been scored. Command is something that will happen in its own time. For now I am just going to continue to enjoy the job .

[redsnail]

Phil Great story but you're still flying an Excel.

[J-10]

Thx for sharing that with us CAT3 - inspirational

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Phil. Good story and nice to read about your wife's health. Pass my best will you.
Oh and yep, the XL is such a brilliant fleet with the brilliant super knowledgeable colleagues you mention... Comments like that should guarantee you free drinks when you return . That's if the guys you refer to and who will read you, haven't grown a head so big, they have to be fleet changed to fit in a larger cockpit .

Reddo, 800, Is it the number of APU hours you log every year ?

[redsnail]

Amex, nah, 800 is the number of miles further we can fly than the XL.

[hollingworthp]

And the number of pounds less baggage you can carry too??

[Shrimps]

4 years ago I was just getting the results of my phase 1 JAA theoretical knowledge exams at OAA, and having done better than expected (having had nightmares of failing all of them; though I think everyone does!) was feeling positive about moving on. Phase two went even better for me; and so I headed out to AZ feeling confident about the job ahead.

While out there it was announced that OAA had taken over the SAS academy, and was hoping to be able to place students directly with airlines (that went well...), and so again all was rosy. I got first time passes in all the flight tests, and had a fantastic time learning to fly - I had some excellent instructors who were genuinely passionate about flying.

Returning back to Oxford was when news reports first started indicating economic issues; however at the time BA and BE were still recruiting as were a number of others.

Almost exactly three years to the day I took the initial IR and only managed a partial after a stupid mistake on the non precision approach (turned left instead of right to follow the needle - realised very quickly but it had gone out of limits before I could rescue it!); but still attained a first series pass which I wasn't too concerned with.

About this time BA declined to invite me and one other from my course to interview, for reasons which I am still unaware of. Shortly afterwards BA shut down recruitment altogether. Almost exactly the same happened with BE. However I did get invited to assessments with Luxair (failed on the DLR tests) Tyrolean (failed on aptitude tests) and Ryanair.

Failing Ryanair didn't come as a surprise; I had a horrendous sim compared to many of my peers which overloaded me somewhat; and I do still feel a little hard done to having read the reams of information on what other PPrune users faced. However, for whatever reason it didn't happen on that day, and there is no use dwelling on it.

I haven't had an airline assessment since then (July 2009) as Ryanair also shut down recruitment, and then reopened it with a 'no reapplications' stipulation; as every other airline recruiting want TR or hours galore for the most part I have struggled to even get a response from most airlines.

I have managed to keep all my ratings and medicals current, but my actual flying hours have been very low as I have been paying my loan off every month, which doesn't leave me with much money at the end of the month, even living at home. Recently I have been fortunate enough to be able to invest some money in a light aircraft share which should offer a boost there to at least keep me in flying practice.

The most difficult part is looking back to wonder where it all went wrong - why I'm the only one on my course without a flying job, while my course mates are now looking at unfreezing licences and fleet changes. I can't blame OAA's training, as I genuinely think it was very good; though I do perhaps have some issues with the 'after sales support' which I do feel has forgotten about me somewhat.

Not a day goes by where I don't check for job vacancies and 'Terms and Endearment' to see what is moving; and I have no intention of just giving up - I remain positive and keep on looking. At the end of the day I do have a job (dull though it is) and things certainly could be worse; my luck will hopefully change eventually.

[go around flaps15]

Sorry to hear about your plight. I understand better than anyone that sometimes the ball does'nt roll for you on the day. Dont dwell on these things. With Ryanair for instance it's a lottery, there are so many guys going for it they can afford to be very choosy. That does'nt reflect on you as a pilot, it just did'nt go for you on the day. Eat sleep and breathe recruitment. Keep trying. NEVER EVER give up. You have come to far to do that.

I hope something comes good for you some day, make no mistake you have to believe that it will happen. If you don't believe in your own ability you can be quite sure that no one else will.

Write down based on your three opportunities the main points on where you went wrong. Find a weak point or a failing perhaps that's in common with all three. Improve on that for a start. KEEP TRYING!

[captainsuperstorm]

while my course mates are now looking at unfreezing licences and fleet changes

this is what you believe, you friends have been kicked out, looking for job, replaced by P2F pilots.

when did you hear about them? 3 years ago, where?
I dont know if you live in the same word as mine, but in my word, 80% of pilots I know are unemployed, lost their job, and now sit at home.

dont loose hope, you are not the only one, I just wish luck to the one who try to keep their job.

[Mr Grimsdale]

What a refreshing read! Good to read everyone's stories. Here's hoping I can tell a similar story in 4 years time.

[YYZ]

I started my PPL on my 28th birthday in 2001, i'd always wanted to fly but never had the cash, but a house id invested in was doing well so i thought id start slowly and see where it took me?
Did the PPL over 6 months passed then went onto to do the rest after selling the house, I worked full time up to the IR when I thought it would be best to quit so i could concentrate more, passed the IR second time due to a poor single engine ILS.

The day I passed I went and hung about at the local skydiving club, after a while they said I could build my hours on a weekend with them so i did, I did this at the same time as an instructors rating.

I then landed a job 3 months later with a new foreign flying school as an instructor, the great deal there was they needed x4 singles and x1 twin delivering from the UK to their school which I had the pleasure of doing, took a few weeks and was a fantastic experience!

I worked there for about 10 months before I got offered a job doing general survey work back in the UK on a twin, this was ok but very slow work so i opted for an interview at FR, as over the past 12 months id managed to save some cash, I passed FR and invested further in myself, this was in 2007.

I've just left FR and I am starting a 777 course.

As per other guys here I can count on one hand the amount of bad days of work i've had over the past 9 years or so, and im very happy with the choices i've made so far.

All a little over four years for me but you get the idea, and as mentioned, i didn't start until i was 28, and i've just started with a new company aged 37.

Would I do it all again... yes

YYZ

[FlexGate]

It's great reading some of story's that you guys have posted. It gives wannabe's like me some real inspiration, and that it isn't all doom and gloom in this industry. I wish everyone that is looking for a flying job the best of luck, hopefully the economy will kick back into shape within the next few years.

[adverse-bump]

I hope non of you will mind if I give a briefer account of the last 5 years or so!

May 2006 - Given my blue book, with the promise from a man I met at the bar the night I passed my CPL of some aerial photography work...nothing came of it and I moved back into my parents and got my old job back as a dispatcher (all be it at a different company, with considerably worse working conditions) and felt considerably fed up!

After 5 months of sending CVs (and a job interview from an airtaxi company who turned out to not only have no AOC but no airplanes I decided to do my FI rating. A week before the course started I got a phone call from a airline a friend worked for offering me an interview, I didnt feel it went well at all, probably the worse interview I have ever given! I wasnt taken forward for a sim check but was promised to be kept in there hold pool for next time.

Started FI course the next week, didnt really enjoy my time doing it with the instructor I had but pressed on, and passed in Jan 2007. And started work at the same school the next day - I was very lucky to end up at this school, I earned a SALARY, something unheard of to most instructors! I even offered to work 6 days a week to earn 20% more! (about 17k).

After a year or so of crashing into runways with students (and a few laughs along the way with some very good friends I met there) I was given the chance to work for the air taxi side of the school - this was a real steep learning curve. single pilot multi engine flights at all times of the day in weather i dont care to think about! But I learn many lessons doing it, many of which still help me today.

In nov 2008, a few weeks after I had started the air taxi work I got a surprise phone call from the airline I had interviewed with a year ago, offering me a sim check - it went rather well and a few weeks later I was sat in a class room learning all about a certain heavy turbo prop, and a few weeks after that set off for Dublin on my first flight as a FO.

two and a half years later (feb 2010) I came back from a weeks skiing, opened my pay check and saw I had been promoted to SFO (HR had forgotten to send me the letter!) they also forgot to send me another letter a couple of weeks after that saying I was to become a captain (I found out from my roster which had Command course written all over it - but I really didnt mind!


A few months of hard work, which seemed to go all to fast and it was time for the sim course (- just a few days with no real chance to repeat anything - so it had to be right first time!)

7 line training flights later and I was told I would be doing my final line check the next day, About the most nervous I have ever felt to date, that is until the next day, when I operated the AC as captain with a regular FO for the first time!

jan 2011 - typing on PPRUNE, hoping that the company keeps going for another year or so until I can get a jet job!

[Mr Grimsdale]

adverse-bump

Great story.