Why I love the recession!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: eaglejet florida
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i am still a big believer that this market is screwed from the root to the top of the branch.even if the worldeconomy stand a little chance in the futur,only a few pilots will be hired, letting thousand and thousand of pilots without jobs.
everyday this market produce hundred of pilot who join te unemploment line.
we make too many babies, 100 years ago, we were 5 billion, now we are 6.5, in 10 years we will be over 7 or 8 billions.
sorry guys, but where do you want find jobs for everybody to feed their family?
be used with your 10% unemployment, in the futur it will be 20%.
a solution? yes there is one, forget aviation.only the loosers join aviation.The winers do something else like doctors, IT,...(most of my friends who are not pilot, they make money, real money , they make a living, they feed their kid, an dont borrow money to play on jet plane after filing bankruptcy like you do at Oxord of my two ...you are just a bunch of immature spoiled kids, and you get what you merit: NOTHING).
everyday this market produce hundred of pilot who join te unemploment line.
we make too many babies, 100 years ago, we were 5 billion, now we are 6.5, in 10 years we will be over 7 or 8 billions.
sorry guys, but where do you want find jobs for everybody to feed their family?
be used with your 10% unemployment, in the futur it will be 20%.
a solution? yes there is one, forget aviation.only the loosers join aviation.The winers do something else like doctors, IT,...(most of my friends who are not pilot, they make money, real money , they make a living, they feed their kid, an dont borrow money to play on jet plane after filing bankruptcy like you do at Oxord of my two ...you are just a bunch of immature spoiled kids, and you get what you merit: NOTHING).
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a solution? yes there is one, forget aviation.only the loosers join aviation
loosers
loosers
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I agree with your way of achieving your aviation dreams, opposed to the enormous loan option, backed by relatives.
I don't agree with your bitterness. Moreover I would discourage you from unveiling such feelings, this way, in a cockpit during chit-chat.
Hint:You will be amazed how back in time, banks gave out professional / student loans in some parts of the planet. (some still not fully repaid)
I don't agree with your bitterness. Moreover I would discourage you from unveiling such feelings, this way, in a cockpit during chit-chat.
Hint:You will be amazed how back in time, banks gave out professional / student loans in some parts of the planet. (some still not fully repaid)
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Recession
What a woderfull post! I think it speaks for many pilots who can't afford the training these days. Industry may be screwed up no doubt in that, but hey I didn't finish the Uni without having some debt and I didn't get into a job that was related to my profession until 3 years after.. and certainly not for the top wage, it took some years to get experience and be paid well and respected.... Aviation is no different!
Why should airlines hire 200 hour pilot and put them straing into right seat and pay them top buck? Exactly....
Not all people can afford higher education, and only a few can afford aviation education. If you are patient and persitent - you will have your chance.
Training is expensive, so like any investment needs thorough investigation! Same as you don't buy a house with out looking at it first , or did you?
Why should airlines hire 200 hour pilot and put them straing into right seat and pay them top buck? Exactly....
Not all people can afford higher education, and only a few can afford aviation education. If you are patient and persitent - you will have your chance.
Training is expensive, so like any investment needs thorough investigation! Same as you don't buy a house with out looking at it first , or did you?
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Same as you don't buy a house with out looking at it first , or did you?
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Food for thought: the market is picking up, there are fresh jobs out there, mainly germany, .. now what if it realy starts picking up fast ( as it goes in the airline business, new companies etc.. ) and experienced Cpts leave for bigger jobs, experienced Fos move left, but not enough to fill the gaps and airliners start looking for Fos with quite some hours (so not newly ones with 200h) which they could shift left fast.
Nobody can say today how it will be tomorrow, only guarantee is that if you have no lisence, you have no chance!
Nobody can say today how it will be tomorrow, only guarantee is that if you have no lisence, you have no chance!
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What if.... etc. this post screams out: "Im naive".
Its ok to be positive, but come on. Your chain of events is just not going to happen. But let me ask you a question I tried asking in other treads without having any replies: Why should things pick up / get better?
Its ok to be positive, but come on. Your chain of events is just not going to happen. But let me ask you a question I tried asking in other treads without having any replies: Why should things pick up / get better?
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Madder you ask a very good question about why things should get better. Maybe the reason you haven't got a reply is because few people under 30 have got any experience of what a recession is like. Here in the UK they've lived all of their working lives through times of plenty, with easy access to credit.
If I may give you a bit of a history lesson of the UK since the second world war. In the 1950s to the 1970s we had a massive manufacuring base that provided income from exports and almost full employment. Come the 1980s much of our manufacturing was closed down, but we had North Sea oil to rely on. After that we did have a ressession,but cheap credit funded the massive boom we've just experienced. This boom has now come to an abrupt end and has to be paid for, but with what? For things to get better, not have we got to pay our debts, we've got to find something to fuel the the recovery. And I can't think of anything that's going to provide a nation of 60 million with the standard of living it's got accustomed to and believe it deserves!
Bust has always followed boom, but there is no law to say that boom has to follow bust. Politicians drive me mad when they talk about the recovery but fail to say where it's coming from.
There will always be a need for pilots and jobs to be had, but for anybody expecting things to get back to how they were a few years ago, you may be very dissapointed.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom but you have to take a step back and look at the facts and have a grasp of history and economics.
If I may give you a bit of a history lesson of the UK since the second world war. In the 1950s to the 1970s we had a massive manufacuring base that provided income from exports and almost full employment. Come the 1980s much of our manufacturing was closed down, but we had North Sea oil to rely on. After that we did have a ressession,but cheap credit funded the massive boom we've just experienced. This boom has now come to an abrupt end and has to be paid for, but with what? For things to get better, not have we got to pay our debts, we've got to find something to fuel the the recovery. And I can't think of anything that's going to provide a nation of 60 million with the standard of living it's got accustomed to and believe it deserves!
Bust has always followed boom, but there is no law to say that boom has to follow bust. Politicians drive me mad when they talk about the recovery but fail to say where it's coming from.
There will always be a need for pilots and jobs to be had, but for anybody expecting things to get back to how they were a few years ago, you may be very dissapointed.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom but you have to take a step back and look at the facts and have a grasp of history and economics.
I've often been branded as Dr Doom on these forums. Fundamentally I'm cautiously optimistic about the prospects for the UK and the major industrial Western nations. A vast vast world of new customers is opening up around the Globe. Yes they can work bashing together goods in huge factories more cheaply and efficiently than we can. So our factories will close. Luckily the UK got that out of the way early. First to build the factories and mass manufacture - first to close and move on. Fine.
The UK has considerable strengths in the industries of the 21st Century. We can add value to many a good or service without the need of a pair of overalls.
I do struggle though to reconcile now with, say 1992, because back then Ryanair and easyJet were only 4 and 5 years away. I simply, in Europe, cannot see another period of turbocharged growth in pilot jobs like the one we have just experienced. There simply isn't scope for another 450 jet airline in the EU even with the complete modernisation of the Eastern nations.
The goldrush is over. The industry has sucked in a vast swathe of relatively youngish pilots and recruiting in the JAA/EASA states is going to drop right off. Back to normal some might say. But normal is going to feel fairly frugal.
WWW
The UK has considerable strengths in the industries of the 21st Century. We can add value to many a good or service without the need of a pair of overalls.
I do struggle though to reconcile now with, say 1992, because back then Ryanair and easyJet were only 4 and 5 years away. I simply, in Europe, cannot see another period of turbocharged growth in pilot jobs like the one we have just experienced. There simply isn't scope for another 450 jet airline in the EU even with the complete modernisation of the Eastern nations.
The goldrush is over. The industry has sucked in a vast swathe of relatively youngish pilots and recruiting in the JAA/EASA states is going to drop right off. Back to normal some might say. But normal is going to feel fairly frugal.
WWW
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I also don't like how the first post is written. But I think it might be an eye opener for many wannabe's.
Getting mommy's and daddy's money is easy, working more than a day just to fly one hour to get my PPL while I study isn't
Getting mommy's and daddy's money is easy, working more than a day just to fly one hour to get my PPL while I study isn't
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I simply, in Europe, cannot see another period of turbocharged growth in pilot jobs like the one we have just experienced.
Neither did I.
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I find the new cadets/p2f types boring to fly with because all they talk about are planes.Thats all they know( and thats stretching it a bit ). Generally a dull dull day out. Wish there were more mature interesting types to work with.
P S recession seems to be interesting
P S recession seems to be interesting
We are not in an period of turbocharged growth of pilot jobs.
All we have is BA taking on 80, ezy & ryr with pay-to-fly work experience and a few re-hires at Virgin. Flybe will be looking at a dozen or so, Jet2 will want a handful on summer-only and then there will be some recruitment in the middle east but they recruit from a global pool which is still vast and deep.
What we have at present is a return to the traditional airline hiring period actually featuring some airline hiring. Below average, but not zero. It only feels like a lot because of three years of drought..
The turbocharged growth period I was talking about was more the 13 years to 2010 when easyJet and Ryanair added >400 jets which is like a whole British Airways number of new pilot jobs in just 13 years - not 80. It simply isn't going to happen again over the next 13 years. There wouldn't be enough tarmac to park them on at night..
I suspect the next big growth in jobs will lie in Eastern Europe as it develops and modernizes over the next generation.
WWW
All we have is BA taking on 80, ezy & ryr with pay-to-fly work experience and a few re-hires at Virgin. Flybe will be looking at a dozen or so, Jet2 will want a handful on summer-only and then there will be some recruitment in the middle east but they recruit from a global pool which is still vast and deep.
What we have at present is a return to the traditional airline hiring period actually featuring some airline hiring. Below average, but not zero. It only feels like a lot because of three years of drought..
The turbocharged growth period I was talking about was more the 13 years to 2010 when easyJet and Ryanair added >400 jets which is like a whole British Airways number of new pilot jobs in just 13 years - not 80. It simply isn't going to happen again over the next 13 years. There wouldn't be enough tarmac to park them on at night..
I suspect the next big growth in jobs will lie in Eastern Europe as it develops and modernizes over the next generation.
WWW
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Hey guys,
I was only speaking to a friend of mine who I met through PPrune regarding the industry. I not going to sit here and spiel out a whole load of statistics, but I do see things are improving for our industry even though at a slow pace. I was even amazed to see the BA went back into the red even with what they went through this year.
To the wannabes like myself, please don’t let yourselves down. I can’t promise you that you will definitely get a flying job, but stick at it, keep your courage and strength high. Hope is one of the best things in life we have without it we wouldn’t be able to aspire to anything. This is our journey, remember it and learn of it. And hopefully in the future when we do join the ranks of pilots we will be in a position to help the following generation. I have been on my personal journey for over a year, nothing compared to some.
To all our seniors, we respect your advice and honesty and we are here to learn from you. We have done the books and got the licences but nothing else.
I was only speaking to a friend of mine who I met through PPrune regarding the industry. I not going to sit here and spiel out a whole load of statistics, but I do see things are improving for our industry even though at a slow pace. I was even amazed to see the BA went back into the red even with what they went through this year.
To the wannabes like myself, please don’t let yourselves down. I can’t promise you that you will definitely get a flying job, but stick at it, keep your courage and strength high. Hope is one of the best things in life we have without it we wouldn’t be able to aspire to anything. This is our journey, remember it and learn of it. And hopefully in the future when we do join the ranks of pilots we will be in a position to help the following generation. I have been on my personal journey for over a year, nothing compared to some.
To all our seniors, we respect your advice and honesty and we are here to learn from you. We have done the books and got the licences but nothing else.
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Secondly, the loans that are secured this way are generally restricted to a limit of no more than 60% of the value of the home, including the charge or further charge.
Thirdly, the parents income (as guarantors for the loan) is usually taken into account for affordability purposes in the event that the payments fall to them. This is the usual position if the loan applicant defaults on the loan payments when due.
Thirdly, the parents income (as guarantors for the loan) is usually taken into account for affordability purposes in the event that the payments fall to them. This is the usual position if the loan applicant defaults on the loan payments when due.
The whole reason we have this here recession is cuz banks were loaning 80, 90, 95, and even 100% of appraised value, and were not paying attention to incomes AT ALL.
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Originally Posted by blackybirdy
forget aviation.only the loosers join aviation.The winers do something else like doctors, IT,...(most of my friends who are not pilot, they make money, real money , they make a living, they feed their kid, an dont borrow money to play on jet plane after filing bankruptcy like you do at Oxord of my two ...you are just a bunch of immature spoiled kids, and you get what you merit: NOTHING).
Bankruptcy? When it comes to your dream, no risks only regrets I say!
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how strange
What a strange bunch of people you are. Why would anyone pay large sums of money or put themselves through such financial hardship to do what is now a mundane and undervalued job. You should be asking yourselves why you want to do the job at all. You seem to have this romantic view of flying an airliner that simply no longer exists among the seasoned professionals that do it. I completed an ATPL and had the choice of a job flying small turboprops or becoming an air traffic controller. Although that job has become a very different one over the twenty years I have done it at no point have any of my colleagues paid for the honour of doing it . You are all bright guys who have choices . Dont waste your time on some romantic image that will never be a reality. Do a job that will earn you the money to fly as a hobby or even work part time in business jets or flying instruction as many of my colleagues do. I am not suggesting ATC as a career as it is going in same direction but was never as glamorous!!
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Isn't it obvious, "recession" is a troll - Only post he/she has made, and never any response to defend his/hers moronic thought process!
Have no regrets, wish I had started before, but not blaming my own late start on other people better financial power at an earlier age. Good luck to everyone, regardless of background, own money or parents money, we probably all do this craziness because we want it for ourselves.
If on day my daughter says she wants to become a pilot, (only 2 now), I will help her in any way possible, with money etc. if that's what she has decided to do. Any decent parent will help their child, to get the best possible start in their life and to try to achieve their dreams and goals.
Have no regrets, wish I had started before, but not blaming my own late start on other people better financial power at an earlier age. Good luck to everyone, regardless of background, own money or parents money, we probably all do this craziness because we want it for ourselves.
If on day my daughter says she wants to become a pilot, (only 2 now), I will help her in any way possible, with money etc. if that's what she has decided to do. Any decent parent will help their child, to get the best possible start in their life and to try to achieve their dreams and goals.
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Mr Recession must feel he should have a medal the size of a dustbin lid, given all the hardship he seems to have endured.
Nice ranting though, entertained me for a few minutes reading the mumblings of the deluded.
Atreyu
Nice ranting though, entertained me for a few minutes reading the mumblings of the deluded.
Atreyu