18 year old Trainee Pilot for Flybe
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Cityfan you are of course spot on.... however the wanabees won't listen.... half of them have no idea just how hard it will be to pay back 80k.... probably take the best part of a decade and then you have to worry about getting a mortgage.... what a life....
Join Date: Nov 2005
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For those mocking the pilots who have accepted CC jobs, just bear this in mind. They are already on the seniority list, as it is based on date of joining. That by my reckoning, gives them a significant head start over any of the sneering Maccy D workers when the flying training eventually kicks off, as they get preferential first dibs on base and fleet, and will almost certainly be several months closer to flying the E195 than any of their compatriots.
These 18 year old kids more than likely want to fly jets - and big ones at that. When the market picks up they will be off to BA, Virgin, BMI, Emirates, Ethihad, Cathay, Easy and all the usual suspects just like they have done since adam was a babe. Considering the guys ahead of them on the seniority list will be moving onwards and upwards as well then they would have naturally moved ahead of the pack in anycase if they are taken back at the front of the queue when Flybe recruits next. If it was me in that position then I would take a hold pool and my seniority and be trying for a better paying job elsewhere with a fallback to Flybe. I would send a copy of Flybe's acceptance letter to other operators in the hope that I would get an interview elsewhere since I was good enough to pass the entry tests at Flybe. Its been done before believe me.
Showing a willingness to work in a role other than what you were originally hired for is just making a rod for your own back and giving management the ability to push you around. What next - fly a few months a year and do ground operations when the winter schedule comes in? Or maybe just work the summer as a contractor like the CTC guys. Its all getting a bit FR if you ask me and needs to be nipped in the bud before this sort of thing becomes an industry wide practice.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Whether to work as CC or not has to be considered with what else is on offer?
What about chasing Ryr to work as a contractor with no job security and a further huge debt?
The point of these cadets taking the CC job is to get into the airline and have there faces at the front of the Q when the job market improves, which of course it will. If they take it as an opportunity and think about the future rather than the immediate present then it's a good move.
Personally I'd rather fly as CC for Flybe than for Mol as a contract pilot anyday.
Flybe has a working business model and it looks like RYR is failing as they can't afford to operate out of major airports like MAN or Stansted anymore (never mind operate into them!).....
What about chasing Ryr to work as a contractor with no job security and a further huge debt?
The point of these cadets taking the CC job is to get into the airline and have there faces at the front of the Q when the job market improves, which of course it will. If they take it as an opportunity and think about the future rather than the immediate present then it's a good move.
Personally I'd rather fly as CC for Flybe than for Mol as a contract pilot anyday.
Flybe has a working business model and it looks like RYR is failing as they can't afford to operate out of major airports like MAN or Stansted anymore (never mind operate into them!).....
Join Date: Dec 2008
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I flew with one of the "pilot" cabin crew the other day said most of the people who were doing it were loving it for the time being getting to know all the staff aircraft etc. From what he said most of them have all been rostered dash courses now anyway and only flew as CC for 3/4 months which is a useful way to pay off the loans!!
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Hey when I joined BA at the age of 25 after a couple of years at another airline and a couple of years instructing I thought that I was doing rather well. Until my simulator course on the A320 when I had to go out and celebrate my simulator partners 20th Birthday!! And he had also come from another airline
So 19 for a first airline job is not that rare these days.
So 19 for a first airline job is not that rare these days.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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All of the Flybe cadets, from whatever school, were placed on a post scheme holding pool list. Their position on the list was decided by their date of finishing. Any cadet who had money invested in them will go ahead of any cadet who has not, irrespective of their date of finishing training.
All cadets will be offered CC jobs (if available) in order to give them some money to fund their loans. There is no disadvantage to anyone who does not take up the offer of a CC job. There is no TR seniority gain for anybody who wishes to take a CC job.
Having said all that, Flybe have just announced a course for 16 FOs on the 19th October and a further 16 in Jan 10. These courses will empty the scheme pool of any current swimmers.
Good news at last!
All cadets will be offered CC jobs (if available) in order to give them some money to fund their loans. There is no disadvantage to anyone who does not take up the offer of a CC job. There is no TR seniority gain for anybody who wishes to take a CC job.
Having said all that, Flybe have just announced a course for 16 FOs on the 19th October and a further 16 in Jan 10. These courses will empty the scheme pool of any current swimmers.
Good news at last!
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Flybe NEVER offered any CC job!! They only notified their pilot that no FO position was available but that they were more than welcome to APPLY for a CC position... Some did and some didn't get the job...
Not as kind as it seems.
"Any snacks, drinks. Coffee, tea?"
Not as kind as it seems.
"Any snacks, drinks. Coffee, tea?"
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Flybe FO's
I don't know about 18 but there are a couple that look about 14. 
And apparently they are a good pair of hands and a pleasure to share a cockpit with. Quite switched on, listen to advice, ask sensible questions, when an technical discussion comes up they go away and do some book work and come back to have a mature professional discussion on the subject. But this is only a couple of Captains views, they could get right on the tits of the others.
Could be a product of the training system but I doudt it. In other words looks don't count and neither does age
And apparently they are a good pair of hands and a pleasure to share a cockpit with. Quite switched on, listen to advice, ask sensible questions, when an technical discussion comes up they go away and do some book work and come back to have a mature professional discussion on the subject. But this is only a couple of Captains views, they could get right on the tits of the others.
Could be a product of the training system but I doudt it. In other words looks don't count and neither does age
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Hey guys,
Age should not be a factor in any job, I had my first flying job at 19 and I'm still going now a few years later. I have flown with guys with tens of thousands of hours and they're terrible pilots but I'm the one who can't get taken seriously because of my age. It gets really tiring, I have substantial experience and do my job well and I hate people bringing me down.
I think seeing a young person in the left seat in any aircraft is good, age DOES NOT reflect experience.
Nuff said........
Age should not be a factor in any job, I had my first flying job at 19 and I'm still going now a few years later. I have flown with guys with tens of thousands of hours and they're terrible pilots but I'm the one who can't get taken seriously because of my age. It gets really tiring, I have substantial experience and do my job well and I hate people bringing me down.
I think seeing a young person in the left seat in any aircraft is good, age DOES NOT reflect experience.
Nuff said........
Join Date: Nov 1999
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I had my first flying job at 19 and I'm still going now a few years later.
I have flown with guys with tens of thousands of hours and they're terrible pilots
but I'm the one who can't get taken seriously because of my age.
I think seeing a young person in the left seat in any aircraft is good, age DOES NOT reflect experience.
Nuff said........
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Pretty scary really, thank god the country I moved to chooses pilots with experience! What if the Captain had a coronary and the newbie FO who'd never flown in ice or even cloud before had to land the plane! I shudder to think. One good thing stemming from this recession is hopefully an end to the "buy yourself a jet job" culture.
Join Date: May 2006
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What if the Captain had a coronary and the newbie FO who'd never flown in ice or even cloud before had to land the plane! I shudder to think.
The 'newbie' would have a valid IR so you would have been trained to fly IMC.
Training for icing conditions would be given and I know its a massive assumption but you would think they would teach him/her to land the aircraft before getting released onto the line
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Experience doesn't count for much when you start pumping good fuel out into the airflow. Nice glide approach though but lucky nevertheless.
Canada doesn't exactly have a shining track record of aviation safety so you might want to consider your position before generalising about 250hr wannabes over this side of the pond.
Canada doesn't exactly have a shining track record of aviation safety so you might want to consider your position before generalising about 250hr wannabes over this side of the pond.
Red On, Green On
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Let's get real - 19/20 year olds have been the sole pilot of RAF/RN jets for a long time - one of my early instructors in my RN time was carrier-deck qualified a few days after his 20th birthday, with just an Observer (navigator in RAF-land) to rein him in.
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Yes that is true, but with an accident record that reflects the risk. The requirements for a pilot in a primary weapons delivery system are in many respects very different from those required to transport 300 assorted members of the public routinely from A to B. The two approaches to risk versus experience are markedly different.
Red On, Green On
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True indeed, but you don't let a pilot loose on the deck of a carrier who is not ready for it. Good 19/20 year olds can be ready for it, just as they can be ready for civil transport operations. There is still a fundamental block in some peoples' minds that this is the case, though.
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Yes, although I would suggest that the applicant screening process is significantly tougher and the subsequent training more intensive and unforgiving with your military pilot. In addition (and with this thread in mind) there is an arrogance that can be honed into a determination to succeed in one arena, that is a more dangerous and difficult element in the other.
That isn't to suggest that 19/20 year olds are not suitable for airline transport operations at an entry level. Many are, and many display a level of maturity, ability, and a desire to learn that ensures them a successful career. Of that there is no doubt. However unlike the military, there are often few opportunities for what I would term the "fear factor" whereby an individual frightens themselves enough to better understand and appreciate their own limits. In a civil environment that is something that cannot be allowed to happen for the first time with 300 passengers down the back. To some extent this relies upon the transfer of experience and the use of better awareness training in far greater measure, to provide an element of compensation. Nevertheless I think this is far from ideal in a world where a bag full of cash and 250 hours can potentially put somebody in that position, without the same degree of screening and attrition that would certainly be the case with your carrier pilot.
It is a problem to some extent, and one that the FAA administrator amongst others, has recently voiced his own concerns over (see R&N.)
That isn't to suggest that 19/20 year olds are not suitable for airline transport operations at an entry level. Many are, and many display a level of maturity, ability, and a desire to learn that ensures them a successful career. Of that there is no doubt. However unlike the military, there are often few opportunities for what I would term the "fear factor" whereby an individual frightens themselves enough to better understand and appreciate their own limits. In a civil environment that is something that cannot be allowed to happen for the first time with 300 passengers down the back. To some extent this relies upon the transfer of experience and the use of better awareness training in far greater measure, to provide an element of compensation. Nevertheless I think this is far from ideal in a world where a bag full of cash and 250 hours can potentially put somebody in that position, without the same degree of screening and attrition that would certainly be the case with your carrier pilot.
It is a problem to some extent, and one that the FAA administrator amongst others, has recently voiced his own concerns over (see R&N.)