How Do I Pay For Atpl!
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1- you are 16, obviously you are very young. You have plenty of time to save money, and find out the best way to achieve your goal. Keep asking around you, and get informed.
2- borrow money as less as you can
3-
Do exactly the opposite of what is quoted above.
Economy down turns are the perfect time for the training (more quality instructor, more availability, cheaper rates).
When the economy goes up, you will be ready to go anywhere to get a job.
Every 7-8 years that's the same, thousands of student pilots are doing the same mistake: the economy goes up, airline industry is hiring, student pilot getting excited with the idea of getting a job after training, so they start their training, and the economy downturn appears... And they have to survive while waiting for the next hiring.
4- get if you can an education, a degree, it won' t hurt.
5- Good to study math, for sure, but the most important is motivation, experience, decision making process and judgment.
6- If you like travelling (you should as a pilot
), or if you intend to be an expat to get your first job or to get experience, try to learn a language.
I have seen expat getting an airline job interview in China because they speak chinese.
In many country in Africa, speaking french makes a huge difference to get a job.
Maybe you don' t realize, but right now the world is changing quickly, and Asia is about to take the economic control.
In addition the ability to speak a foreign language for somebody who wants to travel around the world (a pilot) wouldn' t hurt.
2- borrow money as less as you can
3-
Don't even think about it until the market has improved for a good while. Once the airlines start recruiting, wait a bit more for the holding pools to drain, then start your training.
Economy down turns are the perfect time for the training (more quality instructor, more availability, cheaper rates).
When the economy goes up, you will be ready to go anywhere to get a job.
Every 7-8 years that's the same, thousands of student pilots are doing the same mistake: the economy goes up, airline industry is hiring, student pilot getting excited with the idea of getting a job after training, so they start their training, and the economy downturn appears... And they have to survive while waiting for the next hiring.
4- get if you can an education, a degree, it won' t hurt.
5- Good to study math, for sure, but the most important is motivation, experience, decision making process and judgment.
6- If you like travelling (you should as a pilot
), or if you intend to be an expat to get your first job or to get experience, try to learn a language.I have seen expat getting an airline job interview in China because they speak chinese.
In many country in Africa, speaking french makes a huge difference to get a job.
Maybe you don' t realize, but right now the world is changing quickly, and Asia is about to take the economic control.
In addition the ability to speak a foreign language for somebody who wants to travel around the world (a pilot) wouldn' t hurt.
Last edited by KAG; 10th Mar 2009 at 23:38.
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get yourself a job doing security work. its not the best job in the world but here's why i been doing it ever since i started my training.
you can earn approx £10 and hour but the long hours (12 hour shifts) can give you approx £400 a week
you get all the time in the world to sit and study for your atpl's, next days flight etc.
you do shift work so you can get many days off in a row which is really helpful during training.
if you're just a little smart, they'll promote you to supervisor, team leader within a coupla months and you get more money for doing less work.
In less than 5 years i done all my modular training, Bought a house, new car and didn't need a loan at all. I planned it in such a way that my training was never interrupted.
take your time, go modular and start saving your money.
Regards
MHN
you can earn approx £10 and hour but the long hours (12 hour shifts) can give you approx £400 a week
you get all the time in the world to sit and study for your atpl's, next days flight etc.
you do shift work so you can get many days off in a row which is really helpful during training.
if you're just a little smart, they'll promote you to supervisor, team leader within a coupla months and you get more money for doing less work.
In less than 5 years i done all my modular training, Bought a house, new car and didn't need a loan at all. I planned it in such a way that my training was never interrupted.
take your time, go modular and start saving your money.
Regards
MHN
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Dan
I left school with no qualifacations what so ever. I relearnt the maths I needed for my ATPL's. Dont worry or stress too much about it, just do your best and get a job to earn cash to go modular.
If you really want to be a pilot, the only thing that will stop you is your health.
Its up to you.
Its a long road there, but it not impossible.
I left school with no qualifacations what so ever. I relearnt the maths I needed for my ATPL's. Dont worry or stress too much about it, just do your best and get a job to earn cash to go modular.
If you really want to be a pilot, the only thing that will stop you is your health.
Its up to you.
Its a long road there, but it not impossible.
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Nothing personal, but why on earth would a bank loan a 16 year old without a job that amount of money...It turns out the MOST i can get is £30,000
Seems to me that banks havent learned their lessons!
Mutt
Seems to me that banks havent learned their lessons!
Mutt
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Just a couple more points:
Good luck
P.S. I know at 16, 45 years old seems a lifetime away, but believe me, life has a nasty habit of speeding up! It ain't that far away, at all!
- I've just re-read the entire thread. I think every single post on it from people that have the licence says some version of "save for a number of years as much as you can against whatever method of training you choose". It says something that on PPRuNe of all places you've got a general consensus. I'd STRONGLY heed that, if I were you....
- When I talked of education, I specifically mentioned a "degree in a profession". If you qualify as (say) an accountant A) you can make some very good money to help your ultimate goal B) It is just about the best fallback plan you could have. This will help you with borrowing anything you need to....
- When I mentioned training at 26/7 I should point out that I went through the integrated route, so naturally my thoughts instantly turn to how you'd do "That". If you choose to go modular, then it's absolutely correct that you could start your PPL, hours building, night rating etc long in advance of this....use this as a benchmark to start the "professional pilot" training parts.
Good luck
P.S. I know at 16, 45 years old seems a lifetime away, but believe me, life has a nasty habit of speeding up! It ain't that far away, at all!
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Is it not pertinent to address the fact that some airlines don't actually accept pilots from a modular background? Ok, they may be few and far between, but if someone is wanting to aspire to be employed by BA at some point, they aren't going to be if they've pursued training via the modular route.
Everybody's circumstances are different, and indeed change over time. It's not always so clear cut as to which route will suit each person, which is why doing your homework is very important.
I'll echo what people are saying about education. It is very impotant to achieve the best results, even in subjects not 'relating to' flying. Not only will you be a broader, more well rounded individual, but you'll have more options with regards to employment. Getting a degree isn't a must. I did well in my A-levels but have been fortunate enough to secure a training place early in my life without wasting time doing a degree in something I have no interest in. If you think it is sensible, and there is a subject you would like to study in more depth at university, then by all means pusure a degree first, but don't do it by default. Do what's right for you.
Everybody's circumstances are different, and indeed change over time. It's not always so clear cut as to which route will suit each person, which is why doing your homework is very important.
I'll echo what people are saying about education. It is very impotant to achieve the best results, even in subjects not 'relating to' flying. Not only will you be a broader, more well rounded individual, but you'll have more options with regards to employment. Getting a degree isn't a must. I did well in my A-levels but have been fortunate enough to secure a training place early in my life without wasting time doing a degree in something I have no interest in. If you think it is sensible, and there is a subject you would like to study in more depth at university, then by all means pusure a degree first, but don't do it by default. Do what's right for you.
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Robstob,
Best to make yourself explicit. BA will employ mods will relevant experience. BA just don't emply mods straight out of flight school. Thats a very important fact and something that must be made very clear.
If you have 2000 hours and at "some point" you want to apply for BA, they won't shut the door based on the fact that you trained mod.
Best to make yourself explicit. BA will employ mods will relevant experience. BA just don't emply mods straight out of flight school. Thats a very important fact and something that must be made very clear.
If you have 2000 hours and at "some point" you want to apply for BA, they won't shut the door based on the fact that you trained mod.
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RobStob,
Oooohhh.....prepare to get toasted (and I DON'T mean by my reply!)
RE: Airlines that don't accept modular. Common consensus is that BA is [just about] the only one that won't accept modular LOW HOURS guys. Once you're unfrozen, even BA don't give a stuff. And this coming from an integrated graduate. Don't do integrated PURELY for the chance of a job with BA - unless you're certifiably insane!
RE: Not going to university and doing a degree you have no interest in....sorry to say it, but you list yourself as 18. At this age, there is no way on gods green earth you've earned enough to pay for your own training yourself...so you're either borrowing heavily (against someone elses asset) or someone has paid at least a chunk of the cost for you. If - when you finish your training - the aviation industry is as bad as it is right now, you're absolutely, grade A, f***ed. Do NOT be under any illusions as to this. I
You HAVE to understand that you have nothing to offer to any employer outside of aviation and a mountain of debt. Your only hope (if it remains as is right now) will be Ryanair who will want another £30k you haven't got. If you can't get the money, or worse, fail the assessment then you are in really, really deep - and very hot - water. You will NOT be able to get a job sufficient to pay back the kind of debt we're talking here and have any life on A levels alone....in every walk of life there is a multitude of very highly qualified people out there scrapping for any job. You might well end up bankrupt, or worse losing your parents/siblings home for them. You should NOT take this lightly...
It might not be what you want to do, but getting a good backup plan is absolutely critical. Ask ANYONE that's finished professional training in the last 6 months and you'll get the same answer....to think any different is extremely naive.
I don't want to sound like an arsehole and actually if you're starting now, personally I think you'll be finishing around about the time we start to see recovery....but don't forget there'll also be 15 months of 24 grads per course from at least 3 integrated schools ahead of you also looking for those opportunities. I actually am not having a go at you personally, just trying to get across how bad it is right now and why this is the very best illustration of why you need that fallback plan. It is Very, VERY tough right now.
I genuinely wish you the best of luck with your training, I hope you'll really enjoy it, but it is just plain wrong to advise anyone else against getting a fallback plan right now, just because you've decided to take that risk - because it is a HUGE risk.
good luck. And apologies for sounding like an arse.
Oooohhh.....prepare to get toasted (and I DON'T mean by my reply!)
RE: Airlines that don't accept modular. Common consensus is that BA is [just about] the only one that won't accept modular LOW HOURS guys. Once you're unfrozen, even BA don't give a stuff. And this coming from an integrated graduate. Don't do integrated PURELY for the chance of a job with BA - unless you're certifiably insane!
RE: Not going to university and doing a degree you have no interest in....sorry to say it, but you list yourself as 18. At this age, there is no way on gods green earth you've earned enough to pay for your own training yourself...so you're either borrowing heavily (against someone elses asset) or someone has paid at least a chunk of the cost for you. If - when you finish your training - the aviation industry is as bad as it is right now, you're absolutely, grade A, f***ed. Do NOT be under any illusions as to this. I
You HAVE to understand that you have nothing to offer to any employer outside of aviation and a mountain of debt. Your only hope (if it remains as is right now) will be Ryanair who will want another £30k you haven't got. If you can't get the money, or worse, fail the assessment then you are in really, really deep - and very hot - water. You will NOT be able to get a job sufficient to pay back the kind of debt we're talking here and have any life on A levels alone....in every walk of life there is a multitude of very highly qualified people out there scrapping for any job. You might well end up bankrupt, or worse losing your parents/siblings home for them. You should NOT take this lightly...
It might not be what you want to do, but getting a good backup plan is absolutely critical. Ask ANYONE that's finished professional training in the last 6 months and you'll get the same answer....to think any different is extremely naive.
I don't want to sound like an arsehole and actually if you're starting now, personally I think you'll be finishing around about the time we start to see recovery....but don't forget there'll also be 15 months of 24 grads per course from at least 3 integrated schools ahead of you also looking for those opportunities. I actually am not having a go at you personally, just trying to get across how bad it is right now and why this is the very best illustration of why you need that fallback plan. It is Very, VERY tough right now.
I genuinely wish you the best of luck with your training, I hope you'll really enjoy it, but it is just plain wrong to advise anyone else against getting a fallback plan right now, just because you've decided to take that risk - because it is a HUGE risk.
good luck. And apologies for sounding like an arse.
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Study Maths & Physics at School and do well in both subjects, try to get full airline sponsorship, (I think Atlantic and Highland still offer this, although I'm not sure why in the current climate) and consider the RAF (even airmen aircrew would get you airborn and you'd be well paid).
These options are competitive and you may not be successful, if not get the highest paid job you can and gradually pay for your training as you go, better known as modular! Some big flying schools offer discounted training if you work on Ops or admin from them for a couple of years, not a great deal really but worth looking at.
As everyone else has said, don't take out a loan, you have time on your side.
These options are competitive and you may not be successful, if not get the highest paid job you can and gradually pay for your training as you go, better known as modular! Some big flying schools offer discounted training if you work on Ops or admin from them for a couple of years, not a great deal really but worth looking at.
As everyone else has said, don't take out a loan, you have time on your side.
Mutt...you beat me to it.
When I was 16 I could not get a £500 loan from the bank, (Lloyds) I was working for!
Now they will give a 16 year old £30k with no job????
I'm sorry. I just don't believe this. Maybe a year ago but not now?
No Way!
When I was 16 I could not get a £500 loan from the bank, (Lloyds) I was working for!
Now they will give a 16 year old £30k with no job????
I'm sorry. I just don't believe this. Maybe a year ago but not now?
No Way!
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but if someone is wanting to aspire to be employed by BA at some point, they aren't going to be if they've pursued training via the modular route.
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Clanger - don't worry mate I completely understand what you're saying. You don't come across as an arsehole. I've done my research and I know the risks. Sometimes you just have to take them to get somewhere. Everybody has their own choice. I'm not an idiot, I and the people who are backing me financially know what the potential outcome of a f*ckup could be, and I'm certainly not the only one pursuing this route. By the way, I'll have a type-rating by the end of this course, so no need to fork out £30,000 with Ryanair for that. Please don't anybody reply by preaching to me about how 'I've made the wrond decision/you're going to be screwed with debts' etc when they know nothing about me or my situation, and that is my business alone. I, like many others, can only hope that the market is indeed buoyant again in 2-3 years time, but time will tell. Thanks for the luck; I'm acutely aware I'll need it, in terms of getting the job anyway.
Thanks for clearing that up with BA; as far as I was aware they (told by CTC) didn't accept modular cadets, but if they do after time then that's great news. I'm not here to knock the modular route by any means and apologise if I mislead anyone.
James D - mate, I've hardly desperate for BA, getting a job full stop would be nice. I'm not going to say that I wouldn't like to end there up eventually, though. Hence, I have not written a dissitation on BA's recruiting habits, however I was misinformed.
Thanks for clearing that up with BA; as far as I was aware they (told by CTC) didn't accept modular cadets, but if they do after time then that's great news. I'm not here to knock the modular route by any means and apologise if I mislead anyone.
James D - mate, I've hardly desperate for BA, getting a job full stop would be nice. I'm not going to say that I wouldn't like to end there up eventually, though. Hence, I have not written a dissitation on BA's recruiting habits, however I was misinformed.
Last edited by RobStob; 11th Mar 2009 at 13:45.
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Thanks for clearing that up with BA; as far as I was aware they (told by CTC)
By the way, I'll have a type-rating by the end of this course
Anyway good luck with it, hopefully things will have picked up by then.
Supercharged PPRuNer
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It would be wise to take any school's 'advice' on airline recruitment policies with a large pinch of salt.
And to answer the original question, get the best grades you can at school, then go out and get a job. If you're academically minded, go to university and get a degree in something useful - then go out and get a job.
That way you'll have cash to pay for your training, life and work experience (i.e. something to actually talk about at an interview) and a back-up plan for if and when you can't find work as a pilot.
Worked for me - degree aged 22, several boring but reasonably well paid jobs in shipping, got into flying with a trial lesson aged 29, CPL/IR and first airline job at 36. I've got a decent fall-back CV if I ever lose my medical, and I don't have a mountain of debt.
And to answer the original question, get the best grades you can at school, then go out and get a job. If you're academically minded, go to university and get a degree in something useful - then go out and get a job.
That way you'll have cash to pay for your training, life and work experience (i.e. something to actually talk about at an interview) and a back-up plan for if and when you can't find work as a pilot.
Worked for me - degree aged 22, several boring but reasonably well paid jobs in shipping, got into flying with a trial lesson aged 29, CPL/IR and first airline job at 36. I've got a decent fall-back CV if I ever lose my medical, and I don't have a mountain of debt.
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I'll have a type-rating by the end of this course,
That way you'll pay twice
Food for thought, you pay for your training for a fATPL and a TR on a 737. There are no jobs around in 3 years time for a pilot with 250hrs and a 737TR and the only thing you spot is a local operator using ATR 72's. What will you answer when the interviewer asks "It says here you have a 737 rating? ... Does this mean you'll be leaving us in 2 years time when your fATPL becomes a full ATPL? And why should I pick you over the guy with an ATR 72 TR?"
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CTC have still managed to maintain their 100% placement record, with recent holding pool cadets placed with airlines. I agree there may not be a job at the end of the 6 months line training, but you have a TR paid for that is not part of the intial bond schedule. I'm fully aware that there are catches etc etc and nothing's perfect, however if they can manage to get pilots into line training with the industry in the state is now, I am fairly confident that in 2 years jobs will be available on top of that. Let's not forget that all the problems encountered at the moment are pretty unique to the economy right now and are far worse than they have been previously, therefore the current situation cannot really be used to predict the job situation 2/3 years down the line. Now is, after all, the best time to start training; all anyone can ever hope for is to emerge in a peak on completion of training, no matter when they do it or what route they take.