BA SSP - Qualification

[Melissa_Bettochi]

Good morning people,

I am about to start Oxford Aviation next month and like others my aim is to fly for BA via the Self Sponsered Program.

Most on my course have come from University backgrounds and younger than me. I am trying to not get demoralised before I even start knowing I am up against people as such - me being 25 with just 11 GCSE's to my name.

My question is, if I do progress through ground school with an average of 90-100% on all the exams and pass the flying phases including the dreaded IR phase hopefully with a 1st series pass or a partial. What would be the chance of being invited for the SSP?

Long shot but I am trying to keep my motivated head screwed on.

Thanks!
Melissa

[Callsign Kilo]

Can I ask a question. Why do you want to fly for BA? It's all I hear from Oxford students, BA this, BA that. I don't understand the attraction. I tried to ask a potential OAS student this yesterday..they couldn't give me a straight answer. All I got was that they are one of the best airlines in the world!!! I'm sorry, I don't understand it....maybe I'm not right in the head!

[Adios]

The fact that BA pay for your Type Rating and don't bond you with golden handcuffs in exchange for it is reason enough to want BA. The fact that they were previously profitable in many years and some think less likely to go to the wall adds a certain expectation of stability in the current downturn as well. Whether BA's history of stability will actually be helpful or not going forward is debatable, but it is a proper consideration in where an FO might want to work. I hardly think Oxford students are different than any others in wanting BA. There are only four FTOs included in BA SSP, and OAA has the largest percentage chosen for SSP from these four FTOs, so perhaps this explains why you hear this a lot from OAA students; because those at most other FTOs will never have a shot at BA SSP. There's nothing wrong with coming in later on DEP though!

[Callsign Kilo]

I can't believe even BA would be daft enough to say 'heres your A320 rating, feel free to leave any time...' You must be tied to them in some way, I'm almost positive. They will want return for their investment.

Plus, if you want to wait roughly 17-20 years before you get a sniff of a command, then go for it.

I hope you get into BA, after all paying OAS and extra 35K over the average cost of modular training may indeed see you get your shot. Then again, with the doom and gloom Willie Walsh is predicting this year, there may not be many shots left. But who am I to get in the road of Oxford students hoping and praying that they will be the next Nigel's? Lets hope and pray to God that you don't end up at Ryanair. Just like over 50 per cent of the intake on my TR course in Amsterdam. And guess what...the majority of them beleived that they should have been at BA as well. I just don't get the fascination...it must be built in to you on your first day at Kidlington!

Goodluck anyway, I hope it works out

[BerksFlyer]

It's much more cost effective if you want to fly for BA to train cheaply, fly anywhere you can, then enter on a DEP salary a year or two later.

CK,

Time to command is 8 years shorthaul or 15-20 longhaul I believe.

[Callsign Kilo]

If true BerksFlyer, I stand corrected. However I totally agree with your statement. In this economic environment, I'd forget OAS. Train prudently, fly where and when you can. As you say, worry about the like of BA at a later date. They would probably be more endearing if you had a few thousand JAR25 hours anyway.

[Flashdance9]

I can't believe even BA would be daft enough to say 'heres your A320 rating, feel free to leave any time...' You must be tied to them in some way, I'm almost positive.

There is a one year training bond to cover the cost of the BA JOC (Jet Orientation Course) which is a couple of grand.

There is NO bond for the type rating! It's 100% free. (Although someone will be quick to point out that SSPs are on a reduced salary compared to DEPs. 31K is hardly reduced when you compare it to the going rate for low hour starters; flybe/ryan...?) The fact is I dont believe any SSP has ever left BA, before BA gets their money worth out of them!

Can I ask a question. Why do you want to fly for BA?

1) British flag carrier
2) Fleet Variety; Short/Medium/Longhaul
3) Best kit on order; A380s/787s
4) London Bases
5) SSP sponsored JOC course
6) British Airways Flight Training - best training around?
7) Free type rating, no bond, youre actually paid full salary during type rating
8) As an SSP you'll be on the seniority list before (and make command before) all your fellow coursemates who go DEP after a few yrs from the likes of Jet2/Flybe etc
9) SSP first year rake in around £40K
10) Benefits from Day1 include; pension, private healthcare & staff travel

Need anymore reasons?

Back to the original question of;

What would be the chance of being invited for the SSP?

Melissa, the average for APP courses is around 85% who after the OAA careers department submit CVs & Interim reports to BA, get called in for the SSP selection day. Yes, get good grades in the groundschool and first time passes and a well rounded CV should get you a selection date. Getting through the slection day and onto a sim check, and then passing a sim check is the hard bit! Best of luck for your training at Oxford.

[Adios]

11. Nice pay rises for the first years, which catch you up to the DEPs.

As for number 6, no need for a "?". The training instilled good instincts in the 777 crew that landed short at Heathrow. Whether it's the best or not matters little to the pax in back when the result is a crew performing that well!

[Callsign Kilo]

So this is the view

1. British flag carrier - big deal, who really cares. The last person who made a 'deal' about this was Maggie Thatcher when BA launced their 'Tails of the World' scheme.

2. Fleet Variety - I know a lot of airlines with fleet variety. Maybe not as extensive as BA's, but again it matters little in my book. An aeroplane is an aeroplane and my employer ultimately decides what I will fly.

3. Best kit on order - as do others - Monarch, Virgin, Thompson, First Choice. But again, it matters little. I fly because I enjoy it and it keeps the roof over my head. Whether it is a Boeing or an Airbus, I don't really mind.

4. London bases - great if you live near Gatwick or Heathrow. But even Heathrow - there is little good about that airport in my opinion.

5. SSP JOC Course. I got through a 737 TR without going near a jet or a JOC course. I would hope that someone of BA's standards would be able to as well. Especially if they are coming from Oxford where you receive something like 40 hours in a 737 sim after your IR.

6. BA Flight Training - I'm sure it's very good. As are others.

7. Free TR, No Bond and paid full salary. Well, I'd admit...that's tasty. But they are not the only airline to do this. Albeit, they are one of a rare few.

8. I'm not buying the command thing. You have to wait a hell of a long time in BA before you get a sniff of it. SSP or DEP, doesn't matter. If I had Command in Jet2, I wouldn't give this up to go to BA and fly out of Heathrow and then wait another 10+ years before I got a shot at the LHS again. But that's just me.

9. Salary around 40k in first year. What's around? Is it more like 32K, 35K, 37K. Seems uncertain. Anyway, other airlines offer a similar sort of salary and more. Aer Lingus, BMI, BMI Baby...the list goes on. And how much does your salary increase and when, more importantly?

10. Benefits from day one. Pension - A BA pension, mmmmmmmmmmm...there was a lot of infighting about this recently. Doesn't sound like its all cracked up to what it is meant to be.

Private Health Care - Good, but hardly unique in this day and age

Staff Travel - Available in most airlines. But probably more advantageous in BA due to their global network.


British Airways
British Airways
British Airways
British Airways

It's all I hear from OAT cadets, that's my point. I didn't even go to Oxford, however I know a lot of guys who did and who are now at my airline. They are obsessed with BA. They are deeply upset about not being there and cannot wait to get their applications in for DEPs. To me its all about prestige to them. Telling the world that they fly for BA is all that matters. It fits nicely with their image. Contraversial, but there you go. Please tell me differently.

[tupues]

clearly jealous you didnt get a chance at BA eh?

[EK4457]

CS Kilo, controversial, but correct!

The 10 points listed by flashdance9 are just an indication of how different some people view this industry.

1) Goodness me. What does that count for when 30,000 bags are piled up in T5?

2) You'll only be flying 1 type at a time. You don't get to choose what you fly when you turn up for work.

3) Virtually every other UK carrier is getting new A/C. As it happens, BA have quite an old fleet. 757-200, 737-400, 767-300. Don't be surprised to be put on an A/C which is 20 years old.

4) Fantastic. London airports have a world wide reputation. Of being the worst on planet earth.

5) You just said that you get 2k deducted for this completely unnecessary piece of training.

6) Going to be controversial here. The 777 was stalled onto the grass. FO just pulled the stick back. What happened to flying Vmd to get the best glide? Oh, and the flaps should probably have been retracted. Would probably have made the runway.... So I hear.

The only person so far who has praised the crew is Willie Walsh. We shall await the report.....

7) All swings and roundabouts. You still earn less than FR for the first few years. Works out at about 20k. The cost of a TR would you believe!

8) You will be in the RHS for about a decade. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Your pay will fall behind accordingly (compared to someone who got command after 5 years with another airline).

9) Nope its £31k. A touch more than FR. Of course, you'll earn more in year 2 with FR....

10) Fairly standard benefits. Staff travel, pension etc.....

I'm not saying they're a bad airline. But, they are just an airline. They pay the same, fly the same etc. Get over the name!

EK

[Re-Heat]

People apply to BA for the same reason that people want to work for other large corporates - by virtue of its size, it denotes a successful business that is likely to continue to be successful (I gloss over the previous monopolistic activities that created the airline though).

No other airline in the UK offers a combination of short- and long-haul flying to such varied destinations, operating from the London region, and is likely to offer lifetime employment. Without Virgin being open to 200hr cadets, only BA gives prestige of operating in a global airline - one should not discount the prestige factor in its importance to an employee.

This is not to say that is will not be eclipsed in size, variety, or prestige in the future (Ryanair, Emirates and Virgin snapping at their heels in various market segments). However, Virgin is currently only open to experienced crew who want longhaul flying, Ryanair is a one-type operator with only European flying (with no breaks to see the cities you visit), and Emirates requires a move to overseas.

That is why, despite the terrible management, Heathrow, poor pension, longer period to command, and commuting hassle that people aspire to that role.

There is no need to understand it if you don't have the same aspirations - you should however empathise without having to resort to belittling others' aspirations!

6) Going to be controversial here. The 777 was stalled onto the grass. FO just pulled the stick back. What happened to flying Vmd to get the best glide? Oh, and the flaps should probably have been retracted. Would probably have made the runway.... So I hear.

What an utter prat you are. If you are going to spout rubbish such as this, then get another job - there is no room for such character assasination of a professional crew from a totally uninformed position. It is a pretty arrogant and highminded opinion to have, when the AAIB clearly have little issue with the crew actions in their reports to date.

I think it is pretty clear from your collection of past posts at which stage of your career you are currently standing and what your experience is on these matters. Perhaps you want to call Farnborough and Cranebank to let them know how you know so much more on operating the 777?

[Re-Heat]

It may well have been a joke, but it was a foolish thing to say. It is public knowledge too that the aircraft was deliberately left on the A/P, maintaining the ILS, in order to get over the fence.

[Callsign Kilo]

If you make it into BA, or any other carrier for that matter - Fair play to you, make it work. The airline has it's benefits - I listed them and agreed with a lot Flashdance stated (to an extent).

What gripes me is that people look at BA with rose tinted glasses. As if it was the yard stick that all others should aspire to. I know a lot of good guys who train at the likes of Oxford, and I know others who have a sense of 'snobbery' about them. They know damn all about the industry, all they believe is that they are going to BA and BA is the best. I could see this quite clearly with a number of ex-OAT cadets who were training at CAE at the same time as me. The fact that BA said clear off to them hurt them dearly. It was really quite sad to be honest. The fact that you had been in a fortunate enough position to get a job with another airline, flying a jet fleet with an average age of 2 years, yet still you hated the fact that your TR was in Amsterdam rather than Cranebank.

[Re-Heat]

aha - I see!

[Hand Solo]

Originally Posted by EK4457

1) Goodness me. What does that count for when 30,000 bags are piled up in T5?

No pile up of bags now. In fact T5 actually seems to be working rather well

2) You'll only be flying 1 type at a time. You don't get to choose what you fly when you turn up for work.

But you will get to choose what type that is for most of your career.

3) Virtually every other UK carrier is getting new A/C. As it happens, BA have quite an old fleet. 757-200, 737-400, 767-300. Don't be surprised to be put on an A/C which is 20 years old.

The oldest fleets are also the most popular.

4) Fantastic. London airports have a world wide reputation. Of being the worst on planet earth.

But HKG is nice, as is SIN, and plenty of other airports BA fly to are nice too.

5) You just said that you get 2k deducted for this completely unnecessary piece of training.

I'm sure those more current than me will comment but I think a JOC/MCC is actually a regulatory requirement now.

6) Going to be controversial here. The 777 was stalled onto the grass. FO just pulled the stick back. What happened to flying Vmd to get the best glide? Oh, and the flaps should probably have been retracted. Would probably have made the runway.... So I hear.

Not controversial, just ignorant. They did retract flap to 20. That made the difference between them reaching the airfield and hitting the dual-carriageway in the undershoot.

The only person so far who has praised the crew is Willie Walsh. We shall await the report.....

The BA internal report indicates they performed rather well.

7) All swings and roundabouts. You still earn less than FR for the first few years. Works out at about 20k. The cost of a TR would you believe!

Great if you plan to stay at FR for your career.

8) You will be in the RHS for about a decade. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Your pay will fall behind accordingly (compared to someone who got command after 5 years with another airline).

I'll tell you otherwise. If you don't mind Gatwick you'll be in the RHS long before 10 years. Plus money isn't everything, there's lifestyle to consider.

9) Nope its £31k. A touch more than FR. Of course, you'll earn more in year 2 with FR....

True but you won't fly a 777 in year 4 with FR. Or anything except a 737.

10) Fairly standard benefits. Staff travel, pension etc.....

Don't think anyone really joins for those anymore.

[Flashdance9]

I think Re-Heat hit the nail on the head. BA is an aspirational airline. For most young people at the likes of Oxford and FTE, flying for BA is their Dream. Its more than just about the 10 bullet points I listed.

[747-436]

BA is an aspirational airline

Quite correct, I wanted to work for BA for many years, and am now working for them, not in a flying role though.

Any airline has its good and bad points and you need to take these in to account. If you want to get in to the LHS quickly then BA probably isn't the airline for you as you will be slowly climbing the seniority list for many years.
If you are prepared to sit it out and want the opportunities BA provides, in the air and on the ground, then it is the airline to aspire to join.

But the gap between other airlines and BA has narrowed over the years and it will continue to narrow, in a lot of aspects any airline is any airline. Who knows what the next 30 years will bring!!

If you want to join BA then do it for the right reasons, same with any other airline.

[Colomiers]

Melissa,
I gave up reading some of the crap that's been posted on this thread so far and i couldn't be bothered challenging most of it. Suffice to say you can't believe a lot of the stuff you read on here. my opinion - ba has some serious issues at the moment but is still one of the very best airline jobs worldwide. in terms of what's available when you come out of oxford i have yet to see anyone get a job that offers better security than ba ssp.

You should have no problem getting to interview if you get reasonable results on your course. The one piece of advice i'd give you is to put just as much work into prep for your ba ssp selection as you do for ground school/cpl/ir. Selection for BA (or any other airline) is what will ultimately get you a job and is arguably the most important 'test' you will do throughout your flight training.

Best of luck!

[Colomiers]

For info,

BA SSP starting salary year 1; £31005
At year 5 SSP meets DEP; £56005

This assumes you are still on a shorthaul fleet at paypoint 5 (if not your pay will be higher)

Allowances for all flight crew depend only on the type of flying you do (short/med/longhaul, lenght of service does not count)

Allowances for a shorthaul pilot vary from around £10k to £14k, depending mostly on how many nightstops you do.

An SSP would expect a first year gross pay of £41k at least.

There is NO bond or any other financial commitment for your typerating at all.