CPL-IR-MCC - no job - how many of you?
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Hi guys and girls, I was in in your position last year! I did an FI course and instructed for full time for about 9 months! Loved instructing and filling my logbook! Then one morning during a walk around with a student got a phone call for a TP job!
And all my mates that I instructed with have all got jobs now!
good luck, youve got to make it happen!
And all my mates that I instructed with have all got jobs now!
good luck, youve got to make it happen!
Join Date: Feb 1999
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For those of you with no contacts or networks to get your name known, then you must cultivate them. Sending CVs out will not get you a job these days. I don't know how many students are finishing each month, but I'd guess it is well over 100 per month from British schools alone.
For those still in flight training, then I second the point made earlier in the thread; be the best student you can be. I went to PAT, and was recommended to my current job. Without it, I would have had nothing, despite filling out loads of application forms and making phone calls. A simple word in the right ear works wonders. And if you get the reputation at your flight school as a lazy arrogant idiot, then you won't get a recommendation.
Still, there are people I know who three years after leaving still have nothing. It's pretty tough going, and I don't think it is going to get any easier for people with the looming recession and certain airlines only taking from certain schools. Have a plan B...
For those still in flight training, then I second the point made earlier in the thread; be the best student you can be. I went to PAT, and was recommended to my current job. Without it, I would have had nothing, despite filling out loads of application forms and making phone calls. A simple word in the right ear works wonders. And if you get the reputation at your flight school as a lazy arrogant idiot, then you won't get a recommendation.
Still, there are people I know who three years after leaving still have nothing. It's pretty tough going, and I don't think it is going to get any easier for people with the looming recession and certain airlines only taking from certain schools. Have a plan B...
Join Date: May 2001
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There is a huge shortage of TP Captains at the moment.
You might think whats this got to do with wannbies. Well it has everything to do with what the regional airlines are looking for. Some need 1000 hours turbine 2000 total before command others need as little as 500 multi crew 1500 hours total.
They need people who in minimal time will be acceptable for assesment for LHS. Hopefully within the time of the intial type rating bond. There is a huge movement of FO's to jet after 500 hours multicrew. Modular pilots who would never have maded it past the first CV shuffel at BA are getting jobs after 7 months flying the line on TP's.
There is a reason why FI's are in short supply its because they fit the current profile for what the big hirers are wanting. 1000 hours total and you have improved your chances no end.
There are even FO's out there who are getting sent to build night hours just to get thier green books.
You might think whats this got to do with wannbies. Well it has everything to do with what the regional airlines are looking for. Some need 1000 hours turbine 2000 total before command others need as little as 500 multi crew 1500 hours total.
They need people who in minimal time will be acceptable for assesment for LHS. Hopefully within the time of the intial type rating bond. There is a huge movement of FO's to jet after 500 hours multicrew. Modular pilots who would never have maded it past the first CV shuffel at BA are getting jobs after 7 months flying the line on TP's.
There is a reason why FI's are in short supply its because they fit the current profile for what the big hirers are wanting. 1000 hours total and you have improved your chances no end.
There are even FO's out there who are getting sent to build night hours just to get thier green books.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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With regards to the earlier point of CPL (A) licences issued by the CAA, it's important to bear in mind that many of those persons are also from overseas. Especially with the influx of students from up and coming regions of the world such as the Middle East and Asia. Thus a significant proportion of those licences issued are for sponosored students that will most probably not be competing alongside you for a job. Nevertheless with or without those numbers the job market is still a steep and slippery slope to say the least but then again when has it ever been otherwise?
Even if the statistical data pointed to a low output of CPL (A) holders that wouldn't guarantee anything, why would it? If the quality of personality (something that draws little attention during training) is weak then who would want to hire you anyway, not many I'd think, they need pilots not liabilities.
I would also second the point that simple CVs though they have their place are perhaps not necessarily the route to go in such a dynamic 'on your toes' industry BUT beware of just turning up at offices and presenting yourself it may work in a few instances but could also backfire and then word spreads in a less than flattering manner. As with all things in life the Holy Grail is difficult to come by and I guess the job search is in effect a multitude of difficult things depending on the market situation, your personal circumstances and a realistic appraisal of your character.
Even if the statistical data pointed to a low output of CPL (A) holders that wouldn't guarantee anything, why would it? If the quality of personality (something that draws little attention during training) is weak then who would want to hire you anyway, not many I'd think, they need pilots not liabilities.
I would also second the point that simple CVs though they have their place are perhaps not necessarily the route to go in such a dynamic 'on your toes' industry BUT beware of just turning up at offices and presenting yourself it may work in a few instances but could also backfire and then word spreads in a less than flattering manner. As with all things in life the Holy Grail is difficult to come by and I guess the job search is in effect a multitude of difficult things depending on the market situation, your personal circumstances and a realistic appraisal of your character.
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Thus a significant proportion of those licences issued are for sponosored students that will most probably not be competing alongside you for a job.
Also there's the guys/girls from all over the EC that have just finished training and are applying to work here.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Mecenary Pilot, it's been some time since I was on pprune other than a few random visits of late, good to see familiar names 
You are indeed correct they train over here and then stay on here too. However I was really making the point of overseas candidates from further afield such as Asia that are in the pipeline of something back in their own respective countries due to them being sponsored either in a full or partial capacity. I know for example there are quite a few Middle East students at Cabair and thus would more than likely be heading back home (once some of them 'finally' complete their course ).
Nevertheless you're right the UK job market does have a bit of a Roman trading port feel to it with various nationalities all drawn to the relatively liberal job market here than back home. However lets not get too drawn into this because if it's not one thing then I can assure you it would be something else, such is life.
One issue of significant merit that would impact these figures which no one appears to be mentioning is that of new starters or those currently engaged in the midst of their training. What exactly am I refering to ....? Well that rather fundamental variable of all aviation training.... finance. In the days of plenty with music, flowing wine and a fine maiden to tickle your fancy it's seemed that the biggest hurdles to funding training where a few admin orientated issues, not so anymore. With a lot of people planning to borrow initially or as they progressed module to module are now finding themselves having to slow down their training as they revert back to the earn and spend principle and until you havent earned it you won't be able to take the next step in training. This will begin to impact the training institutions and more overly the student that now trains slower and will have to think twice about funding a type rating with a such a cavalier fashion. That in my humble opinion will surely have a negative impact on the statistical data and output of CPL (A). In fact the more accurate measure would surely be to determine the IR (A) issued by the CAA especially as people put off the more expensive component of training until better times or simply adjust course and head for the Instructor route whilst waiting for the storm to pass.
You are indeed correct they train over here and then stay on here too. However I was really making the point of overseas candidates from further afield such as Asia that are in the pipeline of something back in their own respective countries due to them being sponsored either in a full or partial capacity. I know for example there are quite a few Middle East students at Cabair and thus would more than likely be heading back home (once some of them 'finally' complete their course ). Nevertheless you're right the UK job market does have a bit of a Roman trading port feel to it with various nationalities all drawn to the relatively liberal job market here than back home. However lets not get too drawn into this because if it's not one thing then I can assure you it would be something else, such is life.
One issue of significant merit that would impact these figures which no one appears to be mentioning is that of new starters or those currently engaged in the midst of their training. What exactly am I refering to ....? Well that rather fundamental variable of all aviation training.... finance. In the days of plenty with music, flowing wine and a fine maiden to tickle your fancy it's seemed that the biggest hurdles to funding training where a few admin orientated issues, not so anymore. With a lot of people planning to borrow initially or as they progressed module to module are now finding themselves having to slow down their training as they revert back to the earn and spend principle and until you havent earned it you won't be able to take the next step in training. This will begin to impact the training institutions and more overly the student that now trains slower and will have to think twice about funding a type rating with a such a cavalier fashion. That in my humble opinion will surely have a negative impact on the statistical data and output of CPL (A). In fact the more accurate measure would surely be to determine the IR (A) issued by the CAA especially as people put off the more expensive component of training until better times or simply adjust course and head for the Instructor route whilst waiting for the storm to pass.
Last edited by boogie-nicey; 25th Mar 2008 at 11:52.
