Pegasus 737 nearly lands on fire truck in Finland
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Pegasus 737 nearly lands on fire truck in Finland
A Pegasus 737 flight is under investigation in Finland after the crew reportedly left holding pattern over Pori (EFPO) and tried to land without landing clearance. The landing, on 14 November, had been delayed due low vis and malfunction of RVR meters and visibility was at the time of the near-miss being determined by airport staff in a fire truck.
Two airport workers say they were parked in the middle of rwy, when alerted by TWR of the incoming 737, which did a go-around, visible to the men in the mirrors of the fire truck, as they were rushing to get off the runway "with four more meters still to go".
The flight left for Afghanistan with Finnish UN peacekeepers on board, before the Finnish accident investigation board OTK had been alerted, and "valuable data" was reported to be lost.
The inbound flight was reported to be a ferry with only crew on board.
Two airport workers say they were parked in the middle of rwy, when alerted by TWR of the incoming 737, which did a go-around, visible to the men in the mirrors of the fire truck, as they were rushing to get off the runway "with four more meters still to go".
The flight left for Afghanistan with Finnish UN peacekeepers on board, before the Finnish accident investigation board OTK had been alerted, and "valuable data" was reported to be lost.
The inbound flight was reported to be a ferry with only crew on board.
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411A, I thought you been there and done that. I the old days before transmissometers(RVR meters) a fire truck was sent onto the runway to count runway edge lights he/she could see down the runway so a RVR could be calculated. Since the transmissometers where U/S in this case, is it not obvoius why the fire truck was on the runway
de minimus non curat lex
Something like this happened many moons ago at Leeds [EGNM] with a Viscount.
As a result, human observer RVR is now done from defined positions away from the runway.
As a result, human observer RVR is now done from defined positions away from the runway.
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Since the transmissometers where U/S in this case, is it not obvoius why the fire truck was on the runway
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I'm sure the reason that you opted to train as a pilot is that you were an enthusiast right?? What's wrong with guys and girls who finance their own training and don't take the traditional path to FO?? Just because they take that particular route to the cockpit, does that make them less worthy then you?
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Well said Hipsway.
Too many "Captain Elites" on this website. Which is good for all the good info and facts that they bring, but bad when they get arrogant and diss those below them.
Anything can happen in this world and even highly experinced flyers crash planes and kill people, as is showed most weeks by the news flow on the site. So a little more humility coul go a long way further!
Too many "Captain Elites" on this website. Which is good for all the good info and facts that they bring, but bad when they get arrogant and diss those below them.
Anything can happen in this world and even highly experinced flyers crash planes and kill people, as is showed most weeks by the news flow on the site. So a little more humility coul go a long way further!
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What's wrong with guys and girls who finance their own training and don't take the traditional path to FO
But its not all their fault, after all, if these dodgy airlines didn't exist then it wouldn't happen.
Last edited by Mercenary Pilot; 18th Nov 2007 at 10:29.
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Hey Merc... I've seen worthless pilots who received 10,000 during their training, vs. those who have paid 10,000 for their training, and are an asset to the crew.
The F/O is not the one who made the choice to fly the approach.... it was the PIC... you know the guy who may have the same traditional values as you.
The F/O is not the one who made the choice to fly the approach.... it was the PIC... you know the guy who may have the same traditional values as you.
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Very possible but when £10,000 of your own money is riding on it, what are you going to do? Tell the captain "no"?
The system of paying for hour building on commercial aircraft needs to stop! It means constant low experience in the RHS, unfair completion between proper airlines (due to massively reduced wage bills), potential new pilots being put off by the constant "raising of the financial bar" and erosion to professional pilot's T+C's.
It IS a safety concern!
The system of paying for hour building on commercial aircraft needs to stop! It means constant low experience in the RHS, unfair completion between proper airlines (due to massively reduced wage bills), potential new pilots being put off by the constant "raising of the financial bar" and erosion to professional pilot's T+C's.
It IS a safety concern!
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Low time pilots are entering cockpits of "proper airlines" whether paid for the entrant or not. As in the past, the pay to play program will contiune until the market dries up.
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mercenary pilot you and your kind are just f****** a********. You are no better than anyone else, in fact your superiority complex makes you a danger to everyone. No doubt you would ignore a safety observation made by a 'junior' member of the profession as it couldn't possibly be right. Surprised you made it through an interview process at all, did you ask if the HR person had paid for their own university education so that you could asses their worthiness to interview you.
This site really does need a Dick***d filter
This site really does need a Dick***d filter
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The last check I wrote for flight training was 27 years ago when I obtained my Multi-I.
Times have changed. Today, low time pilots are entering cockpits of "proper airlines" whether the training is paid for the entrant or not. The pay to play program is here to stay until the market dries up.
F/Os can't be blamed for a captain's decision if the underlying fear is retaining his. Look back in history at the number of experienced crews (non participants of the "Pay to Play Plan)" that rode their ships into the ground because of the captain's decision to continue the approach in adverse weather conditions, or not land the plane now during emergency situations.
Again, F/Os are captains in training and not along for the ride. Hopefully they will pick acquire the good habits and discipline from the skippers they fly with.
Times have changed. Today, low time pilots are entering cockpits of "proper airlines" whether the training is paid for the entrant or not. The pay to play program is here to stay until the market dries up.
F/Os can't be blamed for a captain's decision if the underlying fear is retaining his. Look back in history at the number of experienced crews (non participants of the "Pay to Play Plan)" that rode their ships into the ground because of the captain's decision to continue the approach in adverse weather conditions, or not land the plane now during emergency situations.
Again, F/Os are captains in training and not along for the ride. Hopefully they will pick acquire the good habits and discipline from the skippers they fly with.
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Well, it seems like you all guys came up with a real waterproof plan how to make these incidents not happen again...
Last edited by md80forum; 18th Nov 2007 at 12:36.
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Leaving holding, flying the approach and attempting a landing without clearance is a rather big c*** up if you ask me. Looks like Pori is a combined TWR & approach unit run on single freq. Anyone know if they have radar data available to them in the TWR? If not, they controller really can't detect it!
As for RVR measuring:
How on earth can you measure accurate RVR away from the RWY with the Mk.1's?? 50 meters from the edge, and you get a slant view of the edge lights. (And I know the regs state that you must do it on the runway, at least in Norway and Sweden.)
As for the airline, I've seen Pegasus just clear the rwy end lights and barely get airborne in a tailwind departure with a 737, so I'm not really surprised. They pioneered a new runway and ENGM as well. Prejudiced I know.....
As for RVR measuring:
As a result, human observer RVR is now done from defined positions away from the runway.
As for the airline, I've seen Pegasus just clear the rwy end lights and barely get airborne in a tailwind departure with a 737, so I'm not really surprised. They pioneered a new runway and ENGM as well. Prejudiced I know.....
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This site really does need a Dick***d filter
Come back when you actually know something about this industry.
nice reply pilot bear
Low time pilots are entering cockpits of "proper airlines" whether paid for the entrant or not. As in the past, the pay to play program will contiune until the market dries up.
Most decent airlines who will recruit low hour guys, will build up their knowledge and experience in the hope that they choose to stay for at least 2+ years with a notice period of 3-6 months. This then allows a good airline to have a decent level of flight experience in their F/Os (of which some will be looking towards a command) and also allows for a staggered flow of inexperienced pilots to bring up to a decent standard to replace those who ether leave or upgrade.
Last edited by Mercenary Pilot; 18th Nov 2007 at 17:59.
What a weird argument!! There is no info available on this thread as to the experience levels of the crew. We do not know if it was a "pay to fly" FO but that hasn't stopped some people assuming it was and using it as an excuse to start a rant.
PS why is this in Interviews, Jobs, etc and not Rumours and News? Seems like some serious news to me, if true.
PS why is this in Interviews, Jobs, etc and not Rumours and News? Seems like some serious news to me, if true.