Unsecured Loans
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I think the point that WWW (and I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong) is making is that there is a lot of foolish borrowing going on out there, and a few foolish companies allowing it to happen!
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I have to admit I am surprised that ANY bank would give a £65k unsecured personal loan... never heard of a loan quite that large before being completely unsecured.... i.e. no collateral at all.
Natwest have a max unsecured loan limit of £25k whatever your credit rating.... go to their website it is as plain as day.... Revilo are you telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth or do I smell BS??
Is this a loan taken out by your dad's business?? Otherwise everyone would be doing this rather than securing the loan on their parents house..... sorry I don't mean any offence but something smellys fishy about your "Dad's personal unsecured" loan!
Natwest have a max unsecured loan limit of £25k whatever your credit rating.... go to their website it is as plain as day.... Revilo are you telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth or do I smell BS??
Is this a loan taken out by your dad's business?? Otherwise everyone would be doing this rather than securing the loan on their parents house..... sorry I don't mean any offence but something smellys fishy about your "Dad's personal unsecured" loan!
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I'm at the stage where I need to fund a FI rating but don't want to end up with cashflow issues. A loan would therefore break the payments nicely down into say 250pm over 24 months.
CDLs attract an APR of 12.9%. Yet a quick search on moneysupermarket.com shows I can get a loan on the same terms for about half that rate.
What's the point of a CDL?
CDLs attract an APR of 12.9%. Yet a quick search on moneysupermarket.com shows I can get a loan on the same terms for about half that rate.
What's the point of a CDL?
Thread Starter
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CDL - as in career development loan?
Are they not the ones where you borrow the money and don't have to pay it back until you start working?! Like a student loan at uni, except higher interest rates.
Thats how i believe it to be
Are they not the ones where you borrow the money and don't have to pay it back until you start working?! Like a student loan at uni, except higher interest rates.
Thats how i believe it to be
I'd leave an FI rating until Feb/Mar next year - its hard to get a first job as an FI in the depths of winter. Be aware though that it takes a good few weeks to complete the course and thus the accomodation and loss of earnings costs are high.
Northern Rock were a scandal and the Directors should be ashamed. They had a reckless business model of borrowing money to overlend to people with little financial sense. They were all gambling on a house price bubble. That gamble has failed as all gambles do if you keep them going long enough. Reckless lenders like the Rock are bad money that drives out good and I will not be sorry to see their branches closed and assets stripped. I feel sorry for the staff but not for anyone else involved including the shareholders.
I think we can agree that CDL's and unsecured loans for flying training are now much much harder to get and will be smaller in size. Combined with the bank of Mum & Dads main asset (their house) now closing for further business there may well be a drop in the numbers heading for flying school.
This may be balanced by the fact that the coming recession will result in a lot of redundancy. People who receive large redundancy payments have been known to spend them on funding a CPL/IR course as it proves the impetus to make the long contemplated career change.
Cheers
WWW
Northern Rock were a scandal and the Directors should be ashamed. They had a reckless business model of borrowing money to overlend to people with little financial sense. They were all gambling on a house price bubble. That gamble has failed as all gambles do if you keep them going long enough. Reckless lenders like the Rock are bad money that drives out good and I will not be sorry to see their branches closed and assets stripped. I feel sorry for the staff but not for anyone else involved including the shareholders.
I think we can agree that CDL's and unsecured loans for flying training are now much much harder to get and will be smaller in size. Combined with the bank of Mum & Dads main asset (their house) now closing for further business there may well be a drop in the numbers heading for flying school.
This may be balanced by the fact that the coming recession will result in a lot of redundancy. People who receive large redundancy payments have been known to spend them on funding a CPL/IR course as it proves the impetus to make the long contemplated career change.
Cheers
WWW
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Their loan book will be sold on at a significant discount. Everyone knows that they will have a high default rate on their 5 times income lie-to-buy 125% LTV "products".
The directors are not responsible for immoral lending - they are guilty of risky financing of themselves, which occurred in a manner that neither they nor their peers ever envisaged.
Less of the misleading rhetoric please.
The Crock has loans and assets worth £113bn (its loan book as of the 13th sept) which NOBODY in the world seems to want to buy despite being asked pretty please by the Bank of England.
They've taken £8bn in emergency cash from the BoE. They are dead in the water. They know it.
The market is judging their lending standards.
WWW
They've taken £8bn in emergency cash from the BoE. They are dead in the water. They know it.
The market is judging their lending standards.
WWW
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Given that me old Mum sells loans for Barclays
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No, you fundamentally misunderstand the reasons behind their crisis - unlike many other banks, they are not funded by a vast deposit base, but instead through wholesale money markets and through securitisation of mortgages (packaging them up and selling them onto other funds).
Since nobody is prepared to lend to any other bank in either of those markets, and the outstanding loans it received in the money markets fall due every 90 days or so, it has been unable to fund itself - hence moving to the Bank of England.
The loan portfolio's quality is not is question - and since now the deposit base is secure, there are rumoured to be 4 or so bidders for the bank, including perhaps JC Flowers, the specialist finance investor.
So what does this mean for those who want loans for flying training?
You can try to get a loan in the current market, and will probably find that leading standards at most banks are higher - not only as they themselves have trouble finding the money to lend you, but they (the whole market) were previously too sanguine about the risks you posed to them as a borrower.
This should not hinder too much those who have assets behind them to secure the loans - other than paying higher interest rates to some degree - it does however mean that you may find it harder to fund a modular course, rather than an integrated course that has links to local banks.
Since nobody is prepared to lend to any other bank in either of those markets, and the outstanding loans it received in the money markets fall due every 90 days or so, it has been unable to fund itself - hence moving to the Bank of England.
The loan portfolio's quality is not is question - and since now the deposit base is secure, there are rumoured to be 4 or so bidders for the bank, including perhaps JC Flowers, the specialist finance investor.
So what does this mean for those who want loans for flying training?
You can try to get a loan in the current market, and will probably find that leading standards at most banks are higher - not only as they themselves have trouble finding the money to lend you, but they (the whole market) were previously too sanguine about the risks you posed to them as a borrower.
This should not hinder too much those who have assets behind them to secure the loans - other than paying higher interest rates to some degree - it does however mean that you may find it harder to fund a modular course, rather than an integrated course that has links to local banks.
Re-Heat I'm perfectly aware of the Rocks unusual mode of operation, thanks. Borrowing short term to lend long was always risky and they were always set for a fall as I said in 2006.
Paris, they will of course be sold to someone. An asset stripping vulture fund or a well known bank or they may even just slip into liquidation. If Mr Flowers can pull off a fancy recovery deal like he did with LTCM well then he is genius. But none of that would change the fact that Northern Rock are a busted bank whose loan book will be sold at a discount, whose brand will be killed off and whose branches will mostly close.
Thats already for certain.
My mum retires at Christmas and cheerfully admits that loans have recklessly been pushed at hapless cases with every chance of default and nobody much caring in the bank.
We seem to have been Jedi Mind Tricked into believing debt is wealth in this country. The truth will become painfully apparent in the coming years.
Loans for flying training are already harder to get and they will become harder.
Rightly so given their innate risk.
WWW
Paris, they will of course be sold to someone. An asset stripping vulture fund or a well known bank or they may even just slip into liquidation. If Mr Flowers can pull off a fancy recovery deal like he did with LTCM well then he is genius. But none of that would change the fact that Northern Rock are a busted bank whose loan book will be sold at a discount, whose brand will be killed off and whose branches will mostly close.
Thats already for certain.
My mum retires at Christmas and cheerfully admits that loans have recklessly been pushed at hapless cases with every chance of default and nobody much caring in the bank.
We seem to have been Jedi Mind Tricked into believing debt is wealth in this country. The truth will become painfully apparent in the coming years.
Loans for flying training are already harder to get and they will become harder.
Rightly so given their innate risk.
WWW
Who really gives a flying fcuk what bank you dislike blah blah blah this is a forum for apsiring pilots not mortgage advisors get back on topic
Snowy- Most banks will only lend a max of 25k unsecured but apparently hsbc and a couple others will borrow 60k if you are on a recognised flight training scheme. As to weather its secured or not Im unsure
Apsiring? Weather? Im? Oh deary me.
I agree we are wandering off piste for the Wannabes forum when we discuss the finer points of the Northern Rock situation. Nevertheless it is germane to be talking about how the loan industry is changing and will likely continue changing. As most Wannabes need sizeable loans it strikes at the heart of training both on a tactical level (where and how do I get the money) and a strategic one (how many other people will be able to do the same as me).
I suspect tighter lending rules will mean:
a) Fewer Wannabes being able to fund training.
b) An increased proportion choosing Modular.
c) Older Wannabes being advantaged over younger ones by lenders choice.
d) An increased training failure rate as students who suddenly need an extra £5k to finish the course simply cannot get it from anywhere at any cost and thus never make it to license issue.
Cheers
WWW
Snowy- Most banks will only lend a max of 25k unsecured but apparently hsbc and a couple others will borrow 60k if you are on a recognised flight training scheme. As to weather its secured or not Im unsure
Apsiring? Weather? Im? Oh deary me.
I agree we are wandering off piste for the Wannabes forum when we discuss the finer points of the Northern Rock situation. Nevertheless it is germane to be talking about how the loan industry is changing and will likely continue changing. As most Wannabes need sizeable loans it strikes at the heart of training both on a tactical level (where and how do I get the money) and a strategic one (how many other people will be able to do the same as me).
I suspect tighter lending rules will mean:
a) Fewer Wannabes being able to fund training.
b) An increased proportion choosing Modular.
c) Older Wannabes being advantaged over younger ones by lenders choice.
d) An increased training failure rate as students who suddenly need an extra £5k to finish the course simply cannot get it from anywhere at any cost and thus never make it to license issue.
Cheers
WWW
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Everybody getting greedy
Over the last 7 years, the cost of living, cost of manufacturing, cost of buying financial services and cost of buying houses has all gone up up up. Whilst debt in real terms has been so cheap that it has been financially better to borrow than to save. Most savers have found that they are actually losing money than making any in the vast majority of savings accounts.
When you have factored in the cost of your gold plated Integrated course, the loss of earnings for 18 months and a type rating - all of this added up will approach 100k. As WWW said, how in the world do you service that borrowing whether from the bank of Mum&Dad or anywhere else ?? A regional F/O - which is where you might start - barely takes home 2k after tax.
Friends in the finance industry are indeed shutting up shop, but the strongest rumours are that the Western world is bracing itself not just for a slowdown but perhaps a recession. Check out http://money.uk.msn.com/Investing/In...mentid=6252186
The US housing market is in free fall and most UK lenders are exposed to that market. The chances of getting any unsecured borrowing at a decent competitive rate are going down the pan.
After 9/11 - the last economic crisis - it took US and European airlines 2-3 years to recover to a pre 9/11 business. Pilot job hiring probably took 4-5 years to fully recover. Watch this space if come winter 2007 there is plenty of discontent ???
Good luck. Its amazing that people have such short memories of the bad financial times.
Jenson Button
When you have factored in the cost of your gold plated Integrated course, the loss of earnings for 18 months and a type rating - all of this added up will approach 100k. As WWW said, how in the world do you service that borrowing whether from the bank of Mum&Dad or anywhere else ?? A regional F/O - which is where you might start - barely takes home 2k after tax.
Friends in the finance industry are indeed shutting up shop, but the strongest rumours are that the Western world is bracing itself not just for a slowdown but perhaps a recession. Check out http://money.uk.msn.com/Investing/In...mentid=6252186
The US housing market is in free fall and most UK lenders are exposed to that market. The chances of getting any unsecured borrowing at a decent competitive rate are going down the pan.
After 9/11 - the last economic crisis - it took US and European airlines 2-3 years to recover to a pre 9/11 business. Pilot job hiring probably took 4-5 years to fully recover. Watch this space if come winter 2007 there is plenty of discontent ???
Good luck. Its amazing that people have such short memories of the bad financial times.
Jenson Button
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Its Possible!!!
Ok something positive for Prune (I know its an anomaly) as everything else is always so negative. Is it possible to get an unsecured loan to complete a modular course for 35K? Yes it is. I should know I just did it. Hey and guess what its not HSBC either. On the advise of my soon to be school I contacted Natwest Private Banking and on there advise put my heart into a business case and whammooo, I now have the money to do the course. So, stop the nonsense, its possible, you just have to want it bad enough.
In the interest of not advertising for the bank, if you want my private bankers details to see what he can do for you contact me privately.
In the interest of not advertising for the bank, if you want my private bankers details to see what he can do for you contact me privately.
I suspect things will not be easier for those following you now.
WWW
WWW
I mean that loan application refusals have jumped 30%. I mean that Now, Today, Tomorrow loans are HARDER to get than when you got one.
They will probably get even harder in the next month and the next year.
House prices are CRASHING in America, Ireland and Spain. Thats a fact.
What do you think is about to happen to the UK?
1)House prices level off and the economy has a subdued but OK year. Or.
2)House prices crash and the economy enters recession?
The banks are already deeply in trouble with Northern Rock already needing more emergency loans than the total cost of Trident. There will be more to come.
Your chances of getting a £40k loan for flying training to get a job as an airline pilot with airlines going bust left right and centre are small. For reference, see 2008.
Cheers
WWW
They will probably get even harder in the next month and the next year.
House prices are CRASHING in America, Ireland and Spain. Thats a fact.
What do you think is about to happen to the UK?
1)House prices level off and the economy has a subdued but OK year. Or.
2)House prices crash and the economy enters recession?
The banks are already deeply in trouble with Northern Rock already needing more emergency loans than the total cost of Trident. There will be more to come.
Your chances of getting a £40k loan for flying training to get a job as an airline pilot with airlines going bust left right and centre are small. For reference, see 2008.
Cheers
WWW
The cost of housing in the UK especially the south east has risen at unprecedented rates in the last few years. The house I live in with my parents at the moment was valued at about £110k 10 years ago. A house on the same street is on the market for £300K. It is absolutely ridiculous the rises in house prices and I almost never imagine being able to afford a house in London, where I would like to live. People are being given too much credit, I've heard of mortgages of 6 times people’s salaries. If people cannot afford the houses the prices will drop, simple. It is the banks that continue lending more and more money to people just so they can get on the housing market. The loan arrangement for CTC is obviously unique; I've borrowed the best part of £70k at nearly 9% (unsecured). I’m also concerned about future rate rises as the loan rate is linked to the BoE base rate. I Think I am wondering off topic but just wanted to put across my two cents on the credit situation in Britain. It is out of control...
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WWW, in a gesture, simply 
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have seen all this coming. I sold all my BTL's last year, as I felt then it was in the wind, seems I wasn't wrong. Better a year too early, than a day too late.
Credit is going to get a LOT harder to come by in the coming months, and that will be felt hardest by those who, due to youth, were considered to be a poor credit risk pre credit boom. Anyone else remember those banking practices? Those will be the one's coming back into vogue.
After ten years of Labour endorsed lending though, there are an awful lot of young people who have never seen a recession (it's coming, and it's a biggy), can't imagine what it brings, and aren't used to being told 'No' for anything. Far less a loan to go and fund learning to fly.
The greatest trick the Devil (Brown) ever pulled, was convincing people that they were getting richer when they were actually getting far, far poorer.
A Potemkin Economy indeed. One built on debt, with no substance nor foundation. Interesting times ahead and you can take THAT to the bank.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have seen all this coming. I sold all my BTL's last year, as I felt then it was in the wind, seems I wasn't wrong. Better a year too early, than a day too late.
Credit is going to get a LOT harder to come by in the coming months, and that will be felt hardest by those who, due to youth, were considered to be a poor credit risk pre credit boom. Anyone else remember those banking practices? Those will be the one's coming back into vogue.
After ten years of Labour endorsed lending though, there are an awful lot of young people who have never seen a recession (it's coming, and it's a biggy), can't imagine what it brings, and aren't used to being told 'No' for anything. Far less a loan to go and fund learning to fly.
The greatest trick the Devil (Brown) ever pulled, was convincing people that they were getting richer when they were actually getting far, far poorer.
A Potemkin Economy indeed. One built on debt, with no substance nor foundation. Interesting times ahead and you can take THAT to the bank.
I think tonights Panorama will have opened a lot of Joe Publics eyes to what has been going on up and down the land.
Did you see those whole new apartment blocks in London where 80% have been repossessed and there were nearly tumbleweeds blowing through the streets?
Did you see the Psychiatric nurse on less than £30k a year with no deposit who was given half a million pounds worth of mortgages?
Did you see the two 50 yr old invalids on benefit that were given a 25 year mortgage?
And these are just the examples the BBC could find in a hurry and who provided useful telly interviews. This is rife. If 8% of mortgages are subprime and they all default then its hello house price crash, hello negative equity, hello recession and goodbye to a few airlines in this country.
It may not be as bad as the early 1990's but even if it isn't the days of willing and easy credit for Wannabes has ended and to compound the problem the bank of Mum and Dad will find the God of Mortgage Equity Withdrawel has died.
£70k Integrated Course Sir? With a £20k jet type rating on the end? Hmm, let me see what the computer says...
WWW
Did you see those whole new apartment blocks in London where 80% have been repossessed and there were nearly tumbleweeds blowing through the streets?
Did you see the Psychiatric nurse on less than £30k a year with no deposit who was given half a million pounds worth of mortgages?
Did you see the two 50 yr old invalids on benefit that were given a 25 year mortgage?
And these are just the examples the BBC could find in a hurry and who provided useful telly interviews. This is rife. If 8% of mortgages are subprime and they all default then its hello house price crash, hello negative equity, hello recession and goodbye to a few airlines in this country.
It may not be as bad as the early 1990's but even if it isn't the days of willing and easy credit for Wannabes has ended and to compound the problem the bank of Mum and Dad will find the God of Mortgage Equity Withdrawel has died.
£70k Integrated Course Sir? With a £20k jet type rating on the end? Hmm, let me see what the computer says...
WWW
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airlines will damn start to struggle to find pilots nowadays.
shortage start from experienced pilots and now is going down the line to type rated pilots with 0 h.
if we come in a time of recession where banks will take 0 risk with wannabe pilot, I think it s all good for the one who has been fully trained as it wont cost to much for airlines.
(is that English what I am typing?)
shortage start from experienced pilots and now is going down the line to type rated pilots with 0 h.
if we come in a time of recession where banks will take 0 risk with wannabe pilot, I think it s all good for the one who has been fully trained as it wont cost to much for airlines.
(is that English what I am typing?)