MCC

[U220]

Hi
Look, hoping you with experince can help. Does it matter what MCC course you do i.e Jet or Turbo prop sim. I would just like a simply honest answer. Thanks

[Mercenary Pilot]

No, the MCC is a mickey mouse course and nobody cares where you did it. You will get proper CRM when you join an airline and you will learn all the MCC principles you need on your type rating.

[INSIDEVIEW]

hi

Yeah ..totally agree...

But its nice ...and some kind of "Pampering yourself" if you can do it in a Proper Sim ...

But the Rest ..i Agree with the post of the other Collegue...

Cheers ..enjoy

[Parkbremse]

i agree with the other posts... do it as cheap as you can and spend the saved money on a JOC or perhaps on a vacation with your girlfriend

[Deano777]

I personally think the MCC can be an invaluable tool to prepare you for a sim assessment, after my mcc my partner and I agreed we would have never gained as much out the course by doing it in an FNPTII.
I did 25hrs in the sim on my MCC, 2½ months later I did a sim assessment for a major UK carrier in the exact sim, did it help my assessment? bloody right it did

D

[athonite]

MCC was originally intended to to provide a newly qualified commercial pilot with the skills to work as part of a two person crew. It was intended to be incoporated into the intial type rating, and never as a stand alone or pre entry qualification. Furthermore it was intended to be tailored to the company culture, SOP's and aircraft type.

However, by way of example, you could do an Oxford Aviation MCC on a B737 EFIS, to British Midland SOPS, using Jeppersson plates, have a job interview and sim check on a BAC 1-11 using Aer Lingus SOPs, only to get your first job with Eastern Airways on a J31/41 using Aerads. How sensible is that!

However it's a loop you need to jump through. In selection of the course you should ask if the course also 'qualifies' as a Jet Orientation Course and if it includes EFIS and FMGS. Also dont be misled that the course includes a CRM course, CRM can only be done once you are within your airline.

Bottomline is that MCC prices have really come down so you can shop around and most airlines see it purely as a tick box exercise. Also see if you can negotiate on price, if they have a vacancy on a course in the next few weeks, it probably means they can fill it and you can fill a couse with odd numbers. I know someone who recently negotiated £1k off the course price. Be cautious about paying up front in case the training provider go bust halfway through your course.

[Gullyone]

I have heard that the MCC course training is now required to be assessed by the flight school prior to the "box being ticked". It will be an average of level 4 or above for the various exercises.

[athonite]

Where did you hear that?

[Gullyone]

As an MCC instructor it was discussed at our recent standardisation meeting.
Level 4 should not tax most students.

[The Otter's Pocket]

is the MCC a pre-requisite for recieving a Frozen ATPL?

[Mercenary Pilot]

No, but you need one before you can start a type rating on Multi crew aircraft.

[The Otter's Pocket]

Thanks MP
Does that mean once the CPL and IR are added to my licence it is classed as a Frozen ATPL?

[High Wing Drifter]

No, but you need one before you can start a type rating on Multi crew aircraft.

No you don't. You can do it as part of your TR.

From LASORS:

Wherever possible, the MCC training should be
combined with the initial type rating training for a
multi-pilot aeroplane/helicopter, in which case the
practical MCC training may be reduced to not less than
10 hours if the same flight simulator is used for both the
MCC and type rating training.

[Mercenary Pilot]

As long as you have done the ATPL theory then YES.

[The Otter's Pocket]

I also believe that it has to be done before the start of the TR.

I have the CPL / IR and am working as an FI. For my CV I wasn't sure if I could put fATPL without the MCC.
As I intend to do the MCC before my TR in Jan, if I don't find a job beforehand.
Thanks for the advice.

[Pick me Flybe!]

if you havent decided, i can really recommend the mcc at european in bournemouth on the Tristar. The instrumentation is exactly what you will be used to followign the IR - becuase the tristar sim was built around the time of square wheels. We flew it using an hsi and 1 other vor plus an rmi for the holds. So the operation of the sim was dead easy. There is of course lots of other systems that we didnt touch because they were far to complicated for an mcc.


Bottomline, i would pamper yourself and go for a course which involves a full motion sim becuase it is sweet!!!!!

[Mercenary Pilot]

High Wing Drifter, If that's what the book says then I stand corrected. As far as I was aware, if it's being combined with a TR then it had to be done in a separate module before the actual "Type training" commenced.

However it's done, you need to prove that you have completed an MCC to get your first MPA TR issued by the CAA.

Best regards

MP

[Ropey Pilot]

Otters,

I wouldn't put fATPL on my CV anyway as it is slang as I understand it(although become more and more accepted as time goes on).

Your Quals are CPL/IR (SE/ME Single/multi crew as appropriate). You also have an MCC standalone certificate (which will probably be a pretty A4 printout, similar to the 'Simon attempted the 100m at sports day' ones you have at home)


Depends who you apply to and whether the head of recruitment is ex-forces with a bee in their bonnet about service writing and 'accuracy in print' (considering a font other than Times New Roman 12 point - are you quite mad)

If you state what you have then you can't go far wrong.

(and I was advised to use a more modern font than TNR for my CV on a CV writing course it seemed so wrong at the time having just stepped out of the service writing time warp - but in hindsight it looks much better)

[Ropey Pilot]

And in reply to the original question - your employer will not care one iota what sort of MCC you did - they will teach you their own SOPs anyway.

You may personally find differing courses more or less beneficial when it comes to sim assessment time though.

[The Otter's Pocket]

Dear Ropey Pilot

Thanks for the advice. I must admit I am happy not to use service writing as all I ever got was red penned and told to do it again.
I never did and the task never got done

I have now barred my staff from using red pens, as it sends me into a spin!