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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 19th Apr 2016, 18:43
  #4681 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Airport
Posts: 72
Thanks for the info Flaplesslanding, do you think is worth paying an extra 8000€ to do the MCC/JOC (AQC) at CTC to be able to be in the hold pool? I haven't had the chance of meeting any modular that just did AQC with them, or either ATPL+AQC @ CTC.

flyfly4 is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2016, 09:42
  #4682 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London
Posts: 52
I met a few modular students who did the AQC at CTC and were waiting for their start date with Easyjet. It didn't seem as though they were waiting much longer than the integrated students when being put forward for interviews. One was a month after completion and another was 3 months.
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Old 23rd Apr 2016, 19:10
  #4683 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Posts: 72
thanks for your reply flyingGreek, i need to make sure that by doing the ground school and the AQC with CTC I would get some interview because if I decide to do the AQC with CTC I would need to pay an extra 9000€ aprox, compared by doing MCC+JOC at Simtech.
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Old 23rd Apr 2016, 19:22
  #4684 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,791
flyfly4, if you do the "AQC" with CTC and you meet the required standard during the course, then you will go into their hold pool. Then when you're near the top of the list, and you meet the requirements specified by the airline, they will offer you the chance to go for selection for that airline.

Whether you do ground school or not with CTC is irrelevant as far as I know.

Points to note - Doing the "AQC" does not automatically guarantee an interview... if you fall short of the standard, you will not make it into the hold pool and therefore will not get an interview.
The aviation industry changes pretty rapidly, and what is the case today, may be different next week.
There are many people doing an MCC/JOC at CTC having already done one previously. Several of them did one at Simtech, then only a couple of months later went to CTC as well. Several at my airline have done more than one MCC/JOCs, and went to CTC in order to get better access to the jobs and opportunities.
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Old 23rd Apr 2016, 22:20
  #4685 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2015
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thank you for replying llamafarmer, that's interesting to know.

What is the "required standard" that they expect from students? I would like to know what they really want.

How does it exactly work? For example if I would like to go to easyjet, do they get you interviews from airlines you are interested or just any?

flyfly4 is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2016, 07:02
  #4686 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,791
I think the way it works when you are in the hold pool is they tell you what the general requirements are for each airline (i.e. minimum average ATPL ground school %, number of retakes, maximum series/attempt for CPL/IR, maximum number of extra training hours required etc) and what the type rating situation for each airline is (i.e. paid for by the airline, paid for by the trainee, paid at short notice by the trainee) then you can work out which you are/aren't eligible for.

They then keep you informed of the selections that you are eligible for, but you don't have to accept a selection/assessment for that airline or at that time. e.g. if you wanted to work for Monarch and they offer an Easyjet selection you don't have to take the EJ assessment, or you might tell them you can only take a selection for airlines that will pay the type rating. Not taking an assessment opportunity that is offered doesn't count as one of your attempts, it only counts if you take the assessment and fail (or turn it down). But if you're turning down assessment opportunities they will be asking themselves why and probably be asking you too.

As for "required standard", from speaking to others, it appears that the non-technical skills training, each simulator session, and the MCC overall, is marked on a scale of 1 to 4...
3 being "good enough" or "achieves expected standard", 4 being "very good" or "exceeds expected standard".
2 is "below standard expected" and 1 is something along the lines of "oh dear me, try a different career"

Getting a 3 for everything is "good enough", getting 4s is a demonstration of your abilities, but won't put you at any particular advantage over anyone else, so if you get 3s, you don't have to worry about someone jumping ahead of you because they got 4s.
Getting a 2 for one sim is not the end of the world, but does limit your options with regards to certain airlines. Getting a 1 is a big problem.

Apparently airlines view a 3 as a normal standard, or "meets CTC standard". Since airlines have experience of, and are happy with, the CTC product, anything that meets that standard is pretty much a known quality and therefore has a good enough technical/non-technical foundation, with the extra capacity to be moulded by the airline and be able to cope with type rating and line training.

If you are "just another typical CTC trainee" that'll be usually be good enough for nearly every CTC-partner airline.

As for airline assessment/selection/interview, one of the main reasons people fail that stage is not because of their technical knowledge or non-technical skills (i.e. group exercises etc), it is because they don't appear to have thought about their longer term plans, or why they want to join THAT airline.
Granted, at that stage, most people would be happy with any airline that wants them, and even outside aviation, people at the start of their career are pretty grateful to get their first job whoever its for.
BUT, it's a game, you have to show them you want it. Know about the company, have a good answer for why you want to join that company, and why you are a good fit for the company. And if they ask where do you see yourself in 5 or 10 years time, don't say something unrealistic, but also don't say something like "flying long haul" at an Easyjet interview. Even though you've paid for your training and will probably be paying for your type rating, the airline is still going to be investing a lot into you, they don't want you to be leaving after a few years for something better. Even if that is your plan, even if they know it's probably your plan, for god's sake don't actually admit it openly, it's insulting to the airline who you're trying to get a job offer from.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2016, 16:49
  #4687 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Posts: 72
thanks a lot for the detailed response LlamaFarmer.

Anyone who has only done the AQC with CTC has got any interview?
flyfly4 is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2016, 20:18
  #4688 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2016
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One of the guys currently type rating at CTC on the A320, not sure if for easyJet or Monarch, but he came from somewhere in Europe with CPL/IR/MCC and hadn't managed to get any interviews since completing his integrated training (not at one of the UK integrated schools) in 2013.
Apparently finished his AQC about 5 months ago, so even he at the lowest of CTC's priority list managed to get an assessment and type rating date within about 3-4 months of going into the hold pool.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2016, 15:50
  #4689 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ivybridge
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I had my CTC assessment on 27th April . Were you in my group?
Jamslug is offline  
Old 5th May 2016, 10:47
  #4690 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 14
CTC pre entry test

Hi all, just wondering if anyone had any info on the online test which needs to be completed before starting at CTC? I've been sent the ebooks and am about ready I think but just wondering how others have found it? Challenging compared to selection? Is it possible to completely fail or is it just a case of retaking? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Tubeflyer is offline  
Old 5th May 2016, 10:56
  #4691 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North
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Hi Tubeflyer. I wouldn't worry to much about it. It is only basic math and physics. Things like newton laws, trigonometry and formula rearrangements. Just make sure you read the padpilot books properly. It will take you about 3-5 hours to read through it all. Make the test (open book) and you will see that you'll probably score in the region of 90-100%. If you fail the test, just try it again.

the sooner you'll pass the exams, the sooner you can start reading the 'real deal'. Module 1 is a tough module with POF and Gen Nav. Do as much pre reading as you can. Good luck!
aerodestination is offline  
Old 5th May 2016, 13:22
  #4692 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cornwall
Age: 30
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Has CTC selection changed in that there are now online tests before proceeding to Assessment at Dibden Manor?
FlyVeryHigh- is offline  
Old 5th May 2016, 13:37
  #4693 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 14
Thanks for the reply aero, I've spent the last few weeks reading padpiolt so will take the leap in the next few days. As you say I'm keen to get stuck into the actual modules!

Just to clarify veryhighflyer - this is after selection at Dibden and being accepted but prior to commencing the course.
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Old 5th May 2016, 23:59
  #4694 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: USA
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The tests are very straight forward, the few guys I've spoke to and myself all got 100% in both.
Byrne11 is offline  
Old 7th May 2016, 18:43
  #4695 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
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100% here too. It's GCSE stuff, just read the manual and you'll be fine.
FlyANA is offline  
Old 9th May 2016, 21:59
  #4696 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Poor, naive kids. After next two years no work + 70k debt = cold shower on overheated heads. Good luck all of you, maybe you become flight instructors on 40y.o+ smelly Cessna with income below national minimum wage
CapitanDuckhead is offline  
Old 10th May 2016, 16:02
  #4697 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: France
Posts: 168
I'm far from a CTC apologist, but I don't think that the above post paints a realistic picture of what awaits graduates of the Wings programme.

The first couple of years after training will probably be something of a struggle financially, but there's still a reasonable chance (although by no means nailed on!) that less than a decade after starting training, you'll be a captain on a package worth well over 100k a year.

An untagged course at CTC represents a significant risk, but prospects are still not bad.
seen_the_box is offline  
Old 10th May 2016, 18:59
  #4698 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NZ
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by CapitanDuckhead View Post
Poor, naive kids. After next two years no work + 70k debt = cold shower on overheated heads. Good luck all of you, maybe you become flight instructors on 40y.o+ smelly Cessna with income below national minimum wage
This post screams bitterness and chip on shoulder. Simply not true.
GrobblySquirrel is offline  
Old 10th May 2016, 21:38
  #4699 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
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not true ? so how could this happened to me ? and to my mates too ?
CapitanDuckhead is offline  
Old 11th May 2016, 18:46
  #4700 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: London
Posts: 34
Captain Duckhead, It is possible to end up in your position from CTC, yes. They are ruthless if they decide you don't meet their standard. Can I ask if it was at CTC you did your training?

My experience (and the experience of around 85/90% of whitetail cadets I know) was a very swift transfer from training to employment, with various partner airlines accepting new cadets directly onto jet jobs. That is a far cry from what you are suggesting is the norm...
Flaplesslanding is offline  

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