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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 17th Apr 2015, 13:58
  #4541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cornwall
Age: 29
Posts: 203
Originally Posted by planedrive View Post
Flyveryhigh: AFAIK, the 'White Tail' guys who went on to BA didn't have to pay for TR as such, however they did have to increase their bond to match those who'd gone through the FPP, so they were still required to fork out approx £15k after finishing the CTC course. Thanks for the other information!

Regarding George Haywards point - does anyone know which partner airlines taking 'White Tails' pay back the bond in full?
Cheers for that! That wasn't mentioned to me when I asked...

Many thanks!
FlyVeryHigh- is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2015, 17:16
  #4542 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UAE
Posts: 1
Hello Everybody!
This is officially my first post!
I am keen on joining ctc wings, and i was wondering about whether airlines care about your nationality? Im Lebanese, would that make any difference in the probabily of being accepted than a US citizen for example?
Thankss
ak.haddad is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2015, 08:15
  #4543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Probably walking the dog
Posts: 22
Hi ak,

For the CTC Wings scheme you need to have the right to live/work anywhere in the European Union or Switzerland. For most of the airline schemes this needs to be the case as well.

From the top of my head, I think the Qatar Wings MPL is the only airline tagged scheme that doesn't have this nationality restriction.

The Takeoff integrated scheme also has no nationality restriction however this doesn't include the Airline Qualification Course and entry into the employment hold pool.

Best get onto the website and start reading through the different training programmes

Cheers!
BittenEdges is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2015, 14:42
  #4544 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: England
Posts: 55
A level Hold pool requirement

Hi guys,

I understand that CTC only have GCSE requirements to join the scheme, however I was just wondering if only GCSEs are accepted by the partner airlines recruiting from the hold pool, or wherever they stipulate minimum a-level requirements before a candidate can be put forward for consideration.

If anyone has any idea then I'd really appreciate it.
GetTheQRH is online now  
Old 28th Apr 2015, 16:37
  #4545 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cornwall
Age: 29
Posts: 203
Hi there,

Be careful. I've heard of people not being accepted to partner airlines as they don't have the airlines minimum requirements (which are usually those of the airlines cadet programmes), I.e. Flybe a levels, BA a levels, easyJet a levels.

I know wings cadets weren't being picked up by flybe because of this for a fact.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 16:43
  #4546 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 310
ashb, as mentioned above, most airlines require you to have A-levels or equivalent as well. BA's are about the most demanding I've seen, they want 3 at BBC, easyJet want 2 at BC and Flybe 2 at CC.
LandingConfig is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2015, 10:28
  #4547 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 285
easyJet don't require you to have A Levels if you've gone through white tailed route, they do for MPL though.
planedrive is offline  
Old 5th May 2015, 03:40
  #4548 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2
The pilot that failed.

So, I have been reading a lot of speculation here, mostly in the third person. Well, this time I can guarantee you I am real and I speak in the first person. I can’t reveal names due to legal reasons, but if you want to talk to me in person, just send me a message in my inbox and I will collaborate.

I am a CTC Wings pilot that failed.

What do I mean by that? I completed the course and I did not get a job offer after two years. Moreover, I was invited to just one assessment, in which I ever got a response. More details later.

Yes, after spending 100k pounds and a couple of years of my life in it, my outcome was very unhappy. I was just diagnosed with chronic depression,which also means i won’t renew my medical. Besides the drugs, my doctor told me journaling could be an efficient treatment to cure my disease. That’s why I am writing here. It is not my intention to help anyone here - although I believe it could - nor to blames on the school. I just want to help myself and I hope, therefore, that my story is published at the forum.

Now to the real deal: if I could start it over, I would have not started at CTC. I would have learned to fly first, get a PPL, and then start applying at airline programs. You see, once you are at CTC you should be prepared for a constant battery of tests, which comes to what could review the course in one sentence to me:

CTC will never help you. CTC will just assess you.

If you are already a very good pilot, coming from the military or with a good PPL i your pocket, go for it. The training standards here are no better than any other school. For all my colleagues with flight experience, CTC was a walk in the park, perhaps with the stress of needing to performing close to perfection at the ground school tests.

So why is CTC so successful if their training is mediocre? Well, again that comes to the second sentence of the mantra:

CTC will never help you. CTC will just assess you.

CTC does asses you all the time: class after class, flight after flight. Airlines love to see those reports. It is much easier for them to choose from a pile of candidates from CTC than a pile of candidates from other schools. If you read a report from CTC, you will always find a grade and a bunch of generic terms to fill out the blanks: „Situational Awareness“, „Selective Attention“ are a couple of examples.

What the national carrier wants to see is basically: passing everything first time (first series does not count), 95% or better performance at ground school, zero extra hours and exceptional non technical skills. Plus, good grades at school.

What the big low-cost carriers want to see: passing everything first time, maybe one first-series is fine, 85% or better performance at ground school - maybe one test failed is fine, no more than 10 extra hours and a good report from school.

The very worst low-cost carrier (that one with the extinct type-fleet) will pretty much assess anyone from the holding pool interested in paying their expensive TR and for all the costs of a very disorganized and expensive assessment.

My results: Ground school passed everything first time, 92%, first series CPL, first time IR, 13 extra hours, horrible report written by the school.

You see, I just had the chance to be assessed by that last airline. I had to pay for my sim session to apply, plus hotel, flight and everything else. They pretty much call you some days before the assessment, so you can’t even find a cheap flight to go to their assessment (hold on two days). The sim did not even work. I never got any response or feedback. I have asked for my money back. The airline got mad at me and the school kicked me out of the holding pool. Or, in better words, got rid of me.

More to come later...
juancabral2 is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2015, 13:04
  #4549 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 64
Funding a type rating

In regard to funding a type rating, does anyone know if it's possible to fund it via the BBVA loan? i.e, would you be able to borrow a bit more from BBVA after your course has finished in order to finance the type, or would it be more advisable to borrow the money at the beginning? Just trying to weigh up interest charges..
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Old 16th Jul 2015, 15:55
  #4550 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by hill.sam View Post
In regard to funding a type rating, does anyone know if it's possible to fund it via the BBVA loan? i.e, would you be able to borrow a bit more from BBVA after your course has finished in order to finance the type, or would it be more advisable to borrow the money at the beginning? Just trying to weigh up interest charges..
You are able to borrow a bit more or apply for a separate loan, as the majority of airlines are happy to underwrite the loan for you (given that they'll be benefitting from your services) and you then pay that back over a 2 or 3 year period. Regarding BBVA specifically, it is question you'd have to ask them but I don't see why not
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Old 16th Jul 2015, 18:34
  #4551 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London
Posts: 152
Funding a type rating

In regard to funding a type rating, does anyone know if it's possible to fund it via the BBVA loan? i.e, would you be able to borrow a bit more from BBVA after your course has finished in order to finance the type, or would it be more advisable to borrow the money at the beginning? Just trying to weigh up interest charges..
hill.sam one of the girls on our course asked BBVA that very question and they will do a separate application for the type rating cost and the same property can be used as a guarantee so long as it doesn't go over the 60% or whatever it is.

They will normally only approve this once an offer of a type rating has been made and is in writing, they won't give it to you at the beginning. you make the point about interest, that's partly it, but also, some airlines don't require you to pay for TR. Flybe don't charge, they do a lower salary. easyJet will underwrite the type-rating cost for you to borrow from BBVA.

Hope that helps
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 12:41
  #4552 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 179
Why going to CTC when you have PAT which offers to you much better standards of training with double ME hours?

It is marketing people!!!!! You can go to Ryanair or Flybe being modular!!! If you want to go to Vueling you need 1000 hours SE!

People, you need to work hard to get an airline job! It's not just going to an ATO do the training and flying straight a B737 or A320! You need to work your ladder, if not where is the magic to become a pilot? If you are on your 20s, enjoy life, go modular + FI!!!!!
EC DKN is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2015, 09:54
  #4553 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 64
Funding a type rating

Thanks for all the helpful advice on. It's my first post on here and I'm really grateful for all (and any) help. It was just a bit of a shock to the system when I went to a CAE open day at the weekend and heard that EZY can ask for up to £38,000 for a TR. On top of the money I'd have to borrow for course costs, it's north of £120,000. Quite an intimidating amount to have to pay back over 8 years (2 year payment holiday).
foliot-pilot is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2015, 15:17
  #4554 (permalink)  
pug
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A post-punk postcard fair
Posts: 940
I agree it's a huge amount of money, I'm aware this is a CTC thread, however does anyone have any recent stats on how many OAA graduates are getting into easyjet, not including the tagged MPL scheme?

I think out of all of them, easyjet are one of the better ones should the finance be available. I've always liked Oxford, it's just a shame I'm not in a financial position to go down that route myself without a tagged scheme, and as they only come round once a year, there comes a point when one should put the foot on the gas somewhat.. Hopefully I'll time it so that I get one more chance of applying to BA before I sit any ATPL ground exams, unfortunately I will have disqualified myself from the easyjet MPL by then as I would likely have over the maximum 80 hours stipulated..

Last edited by pug; 18th Jul 2015 at 15:31.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 16:18
  #4555 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 287
EC-DKN: People go to CTC because it's a proven way into the RHS of an airliner. I'm not quite sure why you are so bitter about people who choose to go down that route? The highs and lows have been well documented and at the end of the day it is a personal decision, if it doesn't suit you that is fine. Having said that PAT is an excellent place, through my limited experience with them I hold it in very high regard. Just don't upset the dog on the way in

Pug: I'm aware of a few OAA grads who were given the nod by EJ a month or two ago, not sure of numbers taken overall though I'm afraid. I'm also unsure of the cost and TR arrangements with OAA.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 23:33
  #4556 (permalink)  
pug
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A post-punk postcard fair
Posts: 940
Thanks average-punter.. I think each to their own and if it's affordable then there's no doubt that CTC and OAA is the way to go.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 10:28
  #4557 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London
Posts: 152
Funding a Type Rating

well said average-punter, bitterness is not needed when people merely seek information. everyone has a choice.

It was just a bit of a shock to the system when I went to a CAE open day at the weekend and heard that EZY can ask for up to £38,000 for a TR. On top of the money I'd have to borrow for course costs, it's north of £120,000. Quite an intimidating amount to have to pay back over 8 years (2 year payment holiday).
hill.sam I'm not sure of the CAE agreement but at CTC (I've just got a job with easyJet through CTC) easyJet charge £25k for the TR which they underwrite for you through BBVA. repayments are around £500/month for 5 years, approximately.
The thing with borrowing the course costs, is yes it will be extremely tough paying it back. £1600/month (BBVA + TR) or something like that with a well documented low salary in the first year? Many guys on my course are fretting about how tough it's going to be.

A few of us however worked in reasonably well-paid jobs for a number of years and saved up a large chunk of the costs to make things very manageable. So as PUG said, for me it was actually affordable to go down the CTC route. If I had to borrow the entire course costs plus TR, I'm not sure I could do it. It all depends on what you want to do, it's a tough choice either way. Financial hardship for a few years in the beginning, or save up and make your life easier. I chose the latter...
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 11:45
  #4558 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 64
Funding a type rating

byrondaf: I am trying to plan for the worst case scenario, realistically I will have also saved up a fair bit for the course costs, but would need to borrow the rest. I've also heard that your monthly payments to BBVA are reduced by 25% for the first couple of years. Does anyone know this to be true?

Thanks in advance!
foliot-pilot is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2015, 15:07
  #4559 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London
Posts: 152
Yes you have the option to have reduced payments by 25% for 2 years followed by the remainder at higher payments. Also don't forget that your 2 year repayment holiday only starts from when you drawn down on the loan, so if you've got savings you can delay the repayments as long as possible.
byrondaf is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2015, 18:51
  #4560 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 64
byrondaf: sorry if you've just made a typo, I just want to clarify..what do you mean by: your 2 year repayment holiday only starts from when you drawn down on the loan,

Sorry if it seems I'm being pedantic, not my intention
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