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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 26th Dec 2009, 19:49
  #3461 (permalink)  

I Have Control
 
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Assumption

It seems a widely held mantra that "things WILL get better". Ask yourself why. There is no god-given reason why the airline business should pick up. Cyclicity is irrelevant. The economic world is not in a cyclical downturn. Neither is aviation. Keep away, wannabees.

Last edited by RoyHudd; 26th Dec 2009 at 23:15.
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Old 26th Dec 2009, 21:26
  #3462 (permalink)  
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It won't pick up.

The new low is the new low.

Its the entry standard to which all Wannabes must now aspire.


CPL/IR Frzn ATPL MCC Overpriced Type Rating AND Temp Contract is now the first rung on the Wannabe ladder.


You'd better be able to pay for all that plus two years of part time summer work. Large airline B737 A320 First Officers now make about £6.90 an hour.

Its the new rate. Its real. Its happening.




Believe me.



Your CPL counts for shit. You're on under £8 an hour. You're a shelf stacker. Its over.



WWW
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 07:46
  #3463 (permalink)  
 
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Is this really it WWW? This really grips my s*%t. I have been working my nuts off for the 10 years and finally when I have enough cash to fund training, this happens! OK a there was a recession, a credit crunch whatever. They have happened before and they will happen again, but that aside what is happening to the industry is not short of criminal.

I'm not one that is interested in jumping into a RHS of a jet. Not interested in the status or the salary(or lack off) as a matter of fact I actually want to start on a turbo prop, Ariel work, whatever, I want to have some different flying experience before getting into a jet.

I am lucky enough to have been in a highly paid job (although I do despise it) last few years and have a nice little a nest egg, do I really want to blow it all on training AND a type rating? Training I donít mind - thatís what Iíve been saving for, but to now be expected to blow another £30000 on a type rating for contract work, just seems, well lunacy!!

I'm having a mental battle with myself - do I continue with training? I'm currently doing my PPL and will complete that for sure, but do I take it further.

I would be more than happy to bond to turbo prop airline if I had a type rating paid for and be on the payroll, but how long until the turbo prop operators start similar schemes. How many wannabes will be desperate enough to stoop to new lows to get in the RHS. I'm a wannabe myself, I have also had that "dream since I was a kid" to fly, but at this rate it's going to remain a dream, I donít want a dream to turn into a nightmare, with £30000+ Iím saving on a type rating and the other £45000+ on training I might just buy myself a 172 and enjoy some touring to Europe.

It may be the end of a dream to fly commercially, but thank christ I listened to WWW posts a year ago or so and held off, I feel you may have just saved me a fortune and a hell of a lot of stress.

Such a shame wannabes will not get a grip and just not pay for these schemes, if we all hold off eventually we could stop such schemes and allow the guys who have experience and were flying in the good times, to return to the terms and conditions they were used to 4 years ago, instead of sitting at home whilst some dreamer spunks another £30000 to fly a jet and take their well deserved RHS.


I donít post much on these matters, but frustration has caused me to this time, can't imagine how those of you who qualified, working and were laid off are keeping it together watching this happen to your industry.

I wish you all the best and hope that you get something sorted soon. I genuinely feel for you.


Rant over.
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 08:10
  #3464 (permalink)  
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It is a Nightmare.

Total Nightmare.


Wake up sweating Nightmare.



Doesn't matter if you are thinking of training, are training have finished training or like me have >10,000hrs of command jet time. Its a nightmare.

Wherever you are on the career ladder the bottom run keeps sinking lower and faster than you thought possible. The end result is that your rung also sinks.

I would like nothing more than to get back to the situation of ten years ago whereby an airline hired you, based on selection tests and interview, then paid for your MCC rating, Type Rating and Line Training whilst putting you in a hotel and paying you a starting salary (which was my experience).

Sadly Gordon Browns debt bubble based on 15% house price inflation means there is a seemingly endless supply of Wannabes willing to pay right up to and past the first passenger carrying flight.



The rot will bring down the tree.



WWW
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 10:20
  #3465 (permalink)  
VdV
 
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If its so much of a nightmare why dont you all do something!? Why dont you at least try to start some form of action, oh I forgot your union is a pointless waste of space. The cretinous evil that runs CTC must love reading these threads, laughing at all the anger and knowing full well that no one, no matter how angry, will ever do anything. You're all as bad as each other. This industry deserves to be thrown to the dogs.
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 10:36
  #3466 (permalink)  
 
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Not wanting to get caught up in the doom and gloom and also not argueing with you WWW, but where do you get those hourly rates from?

Is that just based on the latest CTC scam?

EK
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 11:30
  #3467 (permalink)  
 
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I would like nothing more than to get back to the situation of ten years ago whereby an airline hired you, based on selection tests and interview, then paid for your MCC rating, Type Rating and Line Training whilst putting you in a hotel and paying you a starting salary (which was my experience).
That was my experience, 3 and a half years ago and many others more recently. Aside from Ryanair, this is a fairly new phenomenon, brought about by the downturn.

I agree, it's unlikely Easyjet will go back to anything better than this, but there still are more traditional airlines out there, with plans to recruit in 2011, who still do the above.

It's over at Easyjet, Ryanair and no doubt some other airlines. But there still are some other reasonable deals left once the upturn comes about and more people start recruiting.

In the long run, there will still be a pilot shortage. May sound silly right now, but air travel is still expected to grow substantially over the coming years. When that happens, I hope it puts sufficient pressure on airlines to stop this current rot in its tracks.

Lets not forget, that only 18 months ago, there was talk of BA re-starting it's cadet scheme again, as they were finding it difficult to recruit enough new pilots of the required standard. I know for a fact that was true and was only stopped by the shuddering credit crunch!
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 12:00
  #3468 (permalink)  

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Just who "expects air travel to grow significantly?"

Not the airlines, nor the airport operators, nor the Air Traffic authorities.

Price of oil will continue to rise, economies worldwide are in ultra-long torpor, airliner leasing is becoming increasingly costly, and will continue, unit costs of new airliners are rising, airfares and air travel costs are projected to rise exponentially....and yet there are wishful thinkers here who believe an upturn is just around the corner. This naive viewpoint is irresponsible and stupid.

Apart from agreeing with WWW, who is at the sharp end, there is nothing further for me to say. (You optimists will be mighty relieved!). And although I am in a secure widebody job, I cannot but wish to help those considering throwing their money away. I have been extremely lucky so far. New entrants haven't got a chance....unless they join the military.
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 15:46
  #3469 (permalink)  
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£8 an hour roughly comes from taking the CTC easyJet Block Hour rate, taking off the deduction for the type rating then applying whats left after tax to the Duty Hours and then stretching it over a year rather than 6 months of summer season.

Roughly works out at about £8 an hour.


Its not exact and its not strictly true but it does serve to contextualise the fact that the role of deputy airline commander is now attracting supermarket shelf stackers rates.

The only solution is for demand to exceed supply. Sadly the Wannabe zombie army stretches from horizon to horizon.


WWW
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Old 27th Dec 2009, 16:39
  #3470 (permalink)  
 
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It is a Nightmare.

Total Nightmare.


Wake up sweating Nightmare.
That's it. Exactly it. And that's if you can get to sleep through worry......and I am not being melodramatic. Even if you can go back to a job that pays you 50K a year, having done your nuts on one of these stupid scams you'll be forced to live like a shelf stacker.


If you must do pilot training, go modular, get an Irish accent and passport and apply to Ryanair - it's the only way.
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Old 29th Dec 2009, 13:11
  #3471 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone currently training with CTC care to add their slant to all of this, or is everyone too petrified to post?

I am sure your post would be a great help to those thinking about this scheme.
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Old 29th Dec 2009, 14:26
  #3472 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone currently training with CTC care to add their slant to all of this, or is everyone too petrified to post?
I'm about half way through.


This just about encapsulates things;

Wake up sweating Nightmare.
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Old 29th Dec 2009, 16:13
  #3473 (permalink)  
 
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So if your halfway through you started about 8 months ago. Can i ask why. Even at that stage their must have been a lot swimming around in the holdpool, the perfect storm was brewing even then. I really dont envy you, i think your staring down the gun of bankruptcy.The jobs situation is going to get alot worse me thinks.

I must add i have flown with some ctc intructors lately who are contracted in at my airline and its interesting to hear their opinion on the future jobs market even now. They clearly so used to talking this drive they have started to believe it, or maybe they thought i was naive enough to believe this tripe
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Old 29th Dec 2009, 19:06
  #3474 (permalink)  
 
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Heck, am i glad i failed phase 3 a couple of years back.
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Old 30th Dec 2009, 01:16
  #3475 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Ollie23
I'm about half way through.
Just out of interest, can I ask ... is your loan at a variable rate or fixed - and if so for how long?

Just curious.
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Old 5th Jan 2010, 23:45
  #3476 (permalink)  
 
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djfingerscrossed... a couple of years back, Phase 3 - would have landed him in the holdpool next to me...
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Old 6th Jan 2010, 09:33
  #3477 (permalink)  
 
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Me too. Lucky, no?!
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Old 6th Jan 2010, 16:17
  #3478 (permalink)  
 
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djfingerscrossed... a couple of years back, Phase 3 - would have landed him in the holdpool next to me...
I think he means if you had finished your training a couple of years ago not just starting


Two years ago CTC was still placing cadets and down turn was just about to happen.
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 21:55
  #3479 (permalink)  
 
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How funny, in related videos at the top there is one shown with a yellow box around it. "Debt Help - Get Out Of Debt Legally - Write Off Debt Today - Guaranteed Debt Reduction"
as a promoted video. Youtube is so clever these days!
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Old 9th Jan 2010, 18:45
  #3480 (permalink)  
 
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AH is on his way out - its Stelios who needs to watch that video.

And do the CAA have a view on F/O's being forced to sleep in a car before their duties? If they do, it probably goes along the lines of 'it is an individuals responsibility to ensure he/she is adequately rested before a duty'. Well individuals are failing in their duty to obtain adequate rest. So are the CAA going to drag themselves away from their cosy subsidised canteen and do some regulating? Nah, thought not.
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