What the hell are we supposed to do?
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ok........ i was single when i started this whole thing 2001
now i am married with 2 kids, Whats a guy to do, Beachy Head ??
you cant let your own life pass you by while you hold out on something that may never happen.
Get yourself an understanding little wifeee
and your good to GO!!!!!!!!!!!!
now i am married with 2 kids, Whats a guy to do, Beachy Head ??
you cant let your own life pass you by while you hold out on something that may never happen.
Get yourself an understanding little wifeee
and your good to GO!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Wingbar, take a look back over your posts here and ask yourself what you would think if someone else had written them. Venting ones spleen in public is not always a good thing although in this case you at least seem to have listened to the very good advice given to you.
You are going back into IT to be able to pay your loans. I'm sorry, what is the problem? You entered into a contract when you borrowed the money. The bank kept to their side by giving you the cash. You're an adult, take responsibility for yourself and none of this easy way out bankruptcy. I suspect the reason HSBC are hassling you is because they know you can get back to work. I don't blame them.
I'll pre-empt your question by saying yes, I'm one who got his job. I got there though by moving back and forth around the world, working as an instructor for **** pay and having to cycle to and from work.
Working as a lorry driver, delivering furniture, loading goods in supermarket warehouses and going back to my old (successful) career when I needed to put food on the table for my family all played a part. I'm nothing special. In fact I'm just like a large percentage of people in the industry who borrowed a shedload of money to fulfil their ambition then set about repaying it while clawing my way up the ladder.
Get an IT job, take care of your responsibilities and you might find that your self respect will improve. I'd wager an offshoot of that (and the removal of the pressure from your creditors) will improve your disposition and perhaps your chances of a flying job.
Good luck.
Oh, being able to afford to go out and relax once in a while will probably help too.
You are going back into IT to be able to pay your loans. I'm sorry, what is the problem? You entered into a contract when you borrowed the money. The bank kept to their side by giving you the cash. You're an adult, take responsibility for yourself and none of this easy way out bankruptcy. I suspect the reason HSBC are hassling you is because they know you can get back to work. I don't blame them.
I'll pre-empt your question by saying yes, I'm one who got his job. I got there though by moving back and forth around the world, working as an instructor for **** pay and having to cycle to and from work.
Working as a lorry driver, delivering furniture, loading goods in supermarket warehouses and going back to my old (successful) career when I needed to put food on the table for my family all played a part. I'm nothing special. In fact I'm just like a large percentage of people in the industry who borrowed a shedload of money to fulfil their ambition then set about repaying it while clawing my way up the ladder.
Get an IT job, take care of your responsibilities and you might find that your self respect will improve. I'd wager an offshoot of that (and the removal of the pressure from your creditors) will improve your disposition and perhaps your chances of a flying job.
Good luck.
Oh, being able to afford to go out and relax once in a while will probably help too.
The Original Whirly
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wingbar,
Having talked to you an hour ago at EGSY, I had a look at this thread, as I'd said I would. I've just skimmed through all of it, so I apologise if I don't remember every single comment, or repeat what has been said already.
Firstly, for those who don't know me, I'm a longterm prooner, and a helicopter instructor at Sheffield City Airport, and I know wingbar. He is not this wimpish, whinging cry baby that some of you seem to believe; he's a perfectly normal, intelligent personable young guy, who really cares about his students. People who don't care about their students don't have long conversations about the best way to teach them, do they? They don't teach the job that pays them peanuts with enthusiasm, do they? I'm here, and I know about people, and I know wingbar, so trust me on this. The fact that he talks about waking up in tears is an example of honesty, that's all. Who hasn't woken up worrying about money, or in despair about life, or similar, at some time? Things can look bad in the wee small hours when you've no-one to talk to; it doesn't mean you don't cope well and positively with life when you're properly awake and in a more rational state. It's being human, that's all. Unfortunately, the British tradition of the stiff upper lip is alive and well, and many people don't like a display or admission of emotion.
However, wingbar, you do have to make a decision, and get your life together. If you're as miserable as you sound, no job is worth that, not even a flying job. As I see it, there are a few things you can do.
1) Go back to IT, at least temporarily. Get some money, pay back some of your loan, so you can keep the bank manager happy and stop worrying so much. Instruct at weekends to keep your hand in, and network and talk to all and sundry so as not to lose any opportunity that comes up. You're young; you have time on your side. This is what I'd do, personally.
2) Keep on instructing, and realise that this crap weather is temporary. It's been awful this last couple of weeks. We're all feeling it. My friends say they've never seen me so fed up and paranoid about the lack of work. It WILL improve. You could have a chat with the bank manager, and carry on. I don't know the f/w market, but I don't see why you shouldn't get another job eventually...though who knows how long that is.
3) Pack the whole thing in. You can, you know. It's allowed. I'm probably the only person on here who'd dare say it, but it IS an option. You gave it your best shot, and maybe it's not worth it. In many ways, this industry stinks. We all know that, but we put up with it because we love flying. But maybe it's not worth it.
Now, you've tried Option 2, and you're deadly miserable. I've got a feeling Option 3 just won't work, from what I know of you. So get out there, do Option 1, and remember it's only temporary and with a longterm aim, not a life sentence.
And remember you have friends on here, as well as idiots who like to put you down when their knowledge of either you or the aviation industry is zilch!
And also remember that I meant what I said earlier about us all sticking together.
Having talked to you an hour ago at EGSY, I had a look at this thread, as I'd said I would. I've just skimmed through all of it, so I apologise if I don't remember every single comment, or repeat what has been said already.
Firstly, for those who don't know me, I'm a longterm prooner, and a helicopter instructor at Sheffield City Airport, and I know wingbar. He is not this wimpish, whinging cry baby that some of you seem to believe; he's a perfectly normal, intelligent personable young guy, who really cares about his students. People who don't care about their students don't have long conversations about the best way to teach them, do they? They don't teach the job that pays them peanuts with enthusiasm, do they? I'm here, and I know about people, and I know wingbar, so trust me on this. The fact that he talks about waking up in tears is an example of honesty, that's all. Who hasn't woken up worrying about money, or in despair about life, or similar, at some time? Things can look bad in the wee small hours when you've no-one to talk to; it doesn't mean you don't cope well and positively with life when you're properly awake and in a more rational state. It's being human, that's all. Unfortunately, the British tradition of the stiff upper lip is alive and well, and many people don't like a display or admission of emotion.
However, wingbar, you do have to make a decision, and get your life together. If you're as miserable as you sound, no job is worth that, not even a flying job. As I see it, there are a few things you can do.
1) Go back to IT, at least temporarily. Get some money, pay back some of your loan, so you can keep the bank manager happy and stop worrying so much. Instruct at weekends to keep your hand in, and network and talk to all and sundry so as not to lose any opportunity that comes up. You're young; you have time on your side. This is what I'd do, personally.
2) Keep on instructing, and realise that this crap weather is temporary. It's been awful this last couple of weeks. We're all feeling it. My friends say they've never seen me so fed up and paranoid about the lack of work. It WILL improve. You could have a chat with the bank manager, and carry on. I don't know the f/w market, but I don't see why you shouldn't get another job eventually...though who knows how long that is.
3) Pack the whole thing in. You can, you know. It's allowed. I'm probably the only person on here who'd dare say it, but it IS an option. You gave it your best shot, and maybe it's not worth it. In many ways, this industry stinks. We all know that, but we put up with it because we love flying. But maybe it's not worth it.
Now, you've tried Option 2, and you're deadly miserable. I've got a feeling Option 3 just won't work, from what I know of you. So get out there, do Option 1, and remember it's only temporary and with a longterm aim, not a life sentence.
And remember you have friends on here, as well as idiots who like to put you down when their knowledge of either you or the aviation industry is zilch!
And also remember that I meant what I said earlier about us all sticking together.
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Wingbar:
When I started almost ten years ago, I saw only two options after getting my licences. Either being employed by a large operator, or having to be an instructor for a year or two and then get a decent job (not to sound cocky..). What I didn't fully realize at the time was that I would need two salaries to pay my debts, if I had to go for option #2.. So WB your story is not very original, but rather typical. I started working nightshifts and instructed as much as I could. After 5 years, I came to the conclusion that it didn't matter if I had 500 or 5000 hours on cessnas. What I needed was an interview. The trick is to get one, obviously. So if you were offered a guaranteed job on 737's earning 3500 quid per month (as FO), would you be able to convince your family/friends or anyone-else you know, to lend you money for a TR (approx 17000 quid)?
I took that chance and it paid off BIG time...I actually got a letter a couple of days ago where I was asked if I knew anybody who could participate on an interview in Brussels Sept 8th and 9th. They're virtually screaming for people. Send me a PM, and I'll forward the mail. If you really think this is really not an option...too expensive...then think again, and again..till you sort out how this can be fixed, because I was REALLY broke when I took the chance. Hope this got you busy, keep us updated.
When I started almost ten years ago, I saw only two options after getting my licences. Either being employed by a large operator, or having to be an instructor for a year or two and then get a decent job (not to sound cocky..). What I didn't fully realize at the time was that I would need two salaries to pay my debts, if I had to go for option #2.. So WB your story is not very original, but rather typical. I started working nightshifts and instructed as much as I could. After 5 years, I came to the conclusion that it didn't matter if I had 500 or 5000 hours on cessnas. What I needed was an interview. The trick is to get one, obviously. So if you were offered a guaranteed job on 737's earning 3500 quid per month (as FO), would you be able to convince your family/friends or anyone-else you know, to lend you money for a TR (approx 17000 quid)?
I took that chance and it paid off BIG time...I actually got a letter a couple of days ago where I was asked if I knew anybody who could participate on an interview in Brussels Sept 8th and 9th. They're virtually screaming for people. Send me a PM, and I'll forward the mail. If you really think this is really not an option...too expensive...then think again, and again..till you sort out how this can be fixed, because I was REALLY broke when I took the chance. Hope this got you busy, keep us updated.
Last edited by RYR-738-JOCKEY; 3rd Sep 2006 at 15:55.
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2 months ago, I went to a meeting for an airline...gosh!! I realised I was in a better position than most of them.
most guys had 200h-300h, no money left.
wingbar you have more licenses than most of them. You know to deal with students, you know to work in a team, and you have already 600hours.you have some kind of experience, right?
it's just a question of time...when I will be a captain, i will give you a call...I will hire only flight instructors
.
most guys had 200h-300h, no money left.
wingbar you have more licenses than most of them. You know to deal with students, you know to work in a team, and you have already 600hours.you have some kind of experience, right?
it's just a question of time...when I will be a captain, i will give you a call...I will hire only flight instructors
.
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Hey everybody,
Thank you for all of your help and support ; Whirly, thank you for your encouragement and your support and your kind words of encouragement...I'll definately leave extra yoghurts in the staff room fridge for you! lol!
I'm not leaving entirely, I'm just going to do something to pay the bills, but I'll do my damndest to return to full time flying ASAP.
Also I just had a lovely chat with a lovely friend of mine, she cheered me up no end, and I am blessed to have nice people in the industry around me.
I'll keep positive and I'll try my level best to get to that job I really really want. I'm just going to have to sit and do some thorough planning, and work out a real plan to get to that post I have always dreamed of.
Thank you everybody for all of your suggestions and help thus far, I have really appreciated the positive comments and ideas from everybody, you have really helped me no end.
A slightly cheered up Wingbar..
Thank you for all of your help and support ; Whirly, thank you for your encouragement and your support and your kind words of encouragement...I'll definately leave extra yoghurts in the staff room fridge for you! lol!
I'm not leaving entirely, I'm just going to do something to pay the bills, but I'll do my damndest to return to full time flying ASAP.
Also I just had a lovely chat with a lovely friend of mine, she cheered me up no end, and I am blessed to have nice people in the industry around me.
I'll keep positive and I'll try my level best to get to that job I really really want. I'm just going to have to sit and do some thorough planning, and work out a real plan to get to that post I have always dreamed of.
Thank you everybody for all of your suggestions and help thus far, I have really appreciated the positive comments and ideas from everybody, you have really helped me no end.
A slightly cheered up Wingbar..
The Original Whirly
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I'll keep positive and I'll try my level best to get to that job I really really want. I'm just going to have to sit and do some thorough planning, and work out a real plan to get to that post I have always dreamed of.
Just keep remembering you said that, escpecially when the going gets tough. 
Pilot first, IT consultant second.
You are on the slippery down escalator of professional flying. Get back flying soon.
WWW
You are on the slippery down escalator of professional flying. Get back flying soon.
WWW
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600 hours - you are not far off the requirements for single-crew IFR on an AOC. Try as hard as you can to get some PIC under IFR in a twin (remember you can log IFR even outside CAS in great weather).
You would need 700 hours including 400 PIC, including 40 PIC/MEP/IFR for most operators, and preferably 100 hours PIC/IFR. Some operators can go down to 400 houts TT, 300 PIC but the 40 PIC/MEP/IFR is essential - and you probably only have your IRT and any renewals logged as such.
There is work around for single-crew, most not needing type rating!
Good luck - I was in your position a year ago, and just as misrerable. Good luck!
You would need 700 hours including 400 PIC, including 40 PIC/MEP/IFR for most operators, and preferably 100 hours PIC/IFR. Some operators can go down to 400 houts TT, 300 PIC but the 40 PIC/MEP/IFR is essential - and you probably only have your IRT and any renewals logged as such.
There is work around for single-crew, most not needing type rating!
Good luck - I was in your position a year ago, and just as misrerable. Good luck!
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Tuned in - I would save your breath mate as he ain't listening to any advice here. Myself and a lot of others have all told him to up sticks and get an FI job at a busier airfield building his multi hours and make the contacts to do just as you suggested. Instead he reckons leaving the industry to go back to IT will keep him on the pulse of what is going on. No doubt he can surf all day filling in online applications for the big boys and those jobs will fall into his lap.
Me thinks he is the older brother of A340rider. The latter must just about be finishing at school soon
PS: wingbar, to clear your debts enter into a voluntary arrangement. If you really have nothing then the bank will be forced to take whatever you are willing to pay them per week.
Me thinks he is the older brother of A340rider. The latter must just about be finishing at school soon
PS: wingbar, to clear your debts enter into a voluntary arrangement. If you really have nothing then the bank will be forced to take whatever you are willing to pay them per week.
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PotKettleblack,
Whislt I appreciate your comments on my situation I feel you have been unfair in other respects;
It's not that easy, to just upsticks and go somewhere else, or 'just' do anything, you can't do naff all in life without money;
For example 02 have now cut off the phone due to having no money to pay them this month...so no way of receiving my job calls for IT or aviation or otherwise...
And how on earth could I afford to live in digs at another airfield??
Or should I go on the streets and beg for accomodation on non flying days?
Yes...very unfortunately IT is now the only way forward, IT is the only thing I have that still gives me a chance at staying in flying, in some capacity even if just at weekends..
And where might I ask, are, these wonderful opportunities of multi engine flying ...paid well enough to service 2 huge loans and a car and the rest +++ because I'm buggered if I know???
As for not taking advice from people on here, I have balenced up the advice and the sensible folk all say go back to the day job, Instruct when you can afford to....which is exactly what I intend to do...the cost of my health isn't worth it..
WB
Whislt I appreciate your comments on my situation I feel you have been unfair in other respects;
It's not that easy, to just upsticks and go somewhere else, or 'just' do anything, you can't do naff all in life without money;
For example 02 have now cut off the phone due to having no money to pay them this month...so no way of receiving my job calls for IT or aviation or otherwise...
And how on earth could I afford to live in digs at another airfield??
Or should I go on the streets and beg for accomodation on non flying days?
Yes...very unfortunately IT is now the only way forward, IT is the only thing I have that still gives me a chance at staying in flying, in some capacity even if just at weekends..
And where might I ask, are, these wonderful opportunities of multi engine flying ...paid well enough to service 2 huge loans and a car and the rest +++ because I'm buggered if I know???
As for not taking advice from people on here, I have balenced up the advice and the sensible folk all say go back to the day job, Instruct when you can afford to....which is exactly what I intend to do...the cost of my health isn't worth it..
WB
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Wing bar,
I have not read all of your posts, but is ti not possible for you to work IT Mon to Fri then instruct at the weekends. Alternatively I believe that Oxford and Jerez have been recruiting, who pay very ggod wages for instuctors.
I have not read all of your posts, but is ti not possible for you to work IT Mon to Fri then instruct at the weekends. Alternatively I believe that Oxford and Jerez have been recruiting, who pay very ggod wages for instuctors.
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Okay so ask mum and dad for a tank of petrol to go and visit some of the bigger fields and then take it from there. I am sure they can sub you for a months shared accomodation somewhere if you land a job? Also go prepay on the mobile, I was paying a fortune to Orange for inclusive minutes, texts and mb and after 8 years told them to sod off. Now my bills are hardly anything per month. Most of the time there is a landline to pick up anyway for outgoing calls and incoming are free after all. Where there is a will there is a way if you really want it. Failing that grab some cash from your folks, don a back pack, buy a 1 way ticket to Africa and go door knocking. I would be surprised if you don't come back in a few years time with a thousand multi hours and maybe even a bit of turbine. Those jobs don't get advertised they all want to put the mark 1 eyeball on you in person.
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My mum and dad, aren't very well off and I cannot borrow anything from them anymore....so the only way for me to have money is to work, and I wouldn't have it any other way, far too many people scrounge money from their parents, when they are more than capable of working to pay for things...
WB
WB
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Wingbar mate hang on in there and it will come, like i've said before just try to ignore some of the p
ks on here who seem to enjoy sticking the knife in further. I know what its like to be on your arse in debt and greet every knock on the door with hiding round the back of the couch but your obviously clever enough to get through it and i ,for one, hope you do. After all not all of us were born with a silver spoon hanging out of our arse
ks on here who seem to enjoy sticking the knife in further. I know what its like to be on your arse in debt and greet every knock on the door with hiding round the back of the couch but your obviously clever enough to get through it and i ,for one, hope you do. After all not all of us were born with a silver spoon hanging out of our arse
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wingbar,
you are right, have met some great pilots too (like you I am sure), who can not join these TRTO at 30-35000 euro plus tax, cuz mom and dad are not rich.
by chance,some companies hire and pay t/ratings with a bonding contract (3 years).
if I had my own company, I will bond pilots against a free type rating because I am a professional and I like RESPECT!
Airlines asking for money are a disgrace to this profession.
you are right, have met some great pilots too (like you I am sure), who can not join these TRTO at 30-35000 euro plus tax, cuz mom and dad are not rich.
by chance,some companies hire and pay t/ratings with a bonding contract (3 years).
if I had my own company, I will bond pilots against a free type rating because I am a professional and I like RESPECT!
Airlines asking for money are a disgrace to this profession.
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Dartagan I agree, and when we are in the powerful postions, - by the way I have every intention of being in this industry, I will purposefully take those who have given something and showed hard work and determination to succeed in the profession.
WB
PS Sawotanao, I ditto that centiment sir...
WB
PS Sawotanao, I ditto that centiment sir...
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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I think Wingbar's open honesty about his current situation shows balls and the somewhat aggressive attitude displayed in some of the replies to him just shows what a cut-throat industry we're all involved with. Most guys at some point feel the way he does at the moment, experience the downside, however most keep that stiff upper lip that Whirlygig mentioned. Maybe it's a survival technique for some but mordacity towards a fellow 'professional' is not very 2006 is it?
Most guys working their way up the ladder do not suffer fools gladly (not saying Wingbar is a fool, but you know what I mean) and if they see someone on the skids then they'll either do the cruel-to-be-kind routine or give them a subtle boot-in as they scarper on up... That is the way it works unfortunately and it's one of the aspects to career seeking that is a necessary evil I guess.
I have certainly experienced both sides of the luck coin during my time training/job seeking and I tell you what, there's nothing worse than being on the b-side of a situation and having everyone think it's self induced kismet so chin-up Wingbar, things will improve and with regards money mate - remember, it's only money.
Good luck Wingbar,
VFE.
Most guys working their way up the ladder do not suffer fools gladly (not saying Wingbar is a fool, but you know what I mean) and if they see someone on the skids then they'll either do the cruel-to-be-kind routine or give them a subtle boot-in as they scarper on up... That is the way it works unfortunately and it's one of the aspects to career seeking that is a necessary evil I guess.
I have certainly experienced both sides of the luck coin during my time training/job seeking and I tell you what, there's nothing worse than being on the b-side of a situation and having everyone think it's self induced kismet so chin-up Wingbar, things will improve and with regards money mate - remember, it's only money.
Good luck Wingbar,
VFE.