BALPA Employment Conference 2nd Sept
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It was useful, to an extent. I think most airlines there were after more experienced guys, except BMI Baby and Jet2.com.
I met quite a few recruiters from the airlines, and had a good chat with a BA captain, as well as mingling with many others. The RAF put in a big presence with 70 guys & gals looking to get into civvy street.
Flybe moved beyond the reach of many when Cheese declared that you must have 750 hrs TT if you graduated more than 12 months ago. Their new on-line application will open 1st Oct. I think they'll struggle, as Easy Jet and others made it pretty clear that there are easier routes into their airlines.
All the others mentioned OATS numerous times for their choice of low houred pilots. When I spoke to the various representatives, they tended to confirm that they went to CTC or OATS to get their low houred guys.
Virgin Atlantic declared they had recently visited OATS with a view to starting a cadet scheme for cruise pilots.
Balpa provided a useful pack with contact details for airlines now recruiting.
Unless I had significantly more experience, I wouldn't go back for next year, but all in all it was an OK experience.
I met quite a few recruiters from the airlines, and had a good chat with a BA captain, as well as mingling with many others. The RAF put in a big presence with 70 guys & gals looking to get into civvy street.
Flybe moved beyond the reach of many when Cheese declared that you must have 750 hrs TT if you graduated more than 12 months ago. Their new on-line application will open 1st Oct. I think they'll struggle, as Easy Jet and others made it pretty clear that there are easier routes into their airlines.
All the others mentioned OATS numerous times for their choice of low houred pilots. When I spoke to the various representatives, they tended to confirm that they went to CTC or OATS to get their low houred guys.
Virgin Atlantic declared they had recently visited OATS with a view to starting a cadet scheme for cruise pilots.
Balpa provided a useful pack with contact details for airlines now recruiting.
Unless I had significantly more experience, I wouldn't go back for next year, but all in all it was an OK experience.
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Flybe moved beyond the reach of many when Cheese declared that you must have 750 hrs TT if you graduated more than 12 months ago.
and something about a caravan.
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It is correct. I went and spoke to Ian Cheese afterwards, and he confirmed 750TT - plus the 50 hrs in the previous 12 months. He was very particular regarding currency. He also indicated that the new application form will trigger your application to HR once you have reached that figure, not before. He did say the new application form would be available for people to constantly update their data/hours etc.
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I attended yesterday, and my understanding was that if you have finished a one stop Integrated / Mod course ie. All training at the same school and have flown >50hrs in the last 12months you can apply withOUT 750TT.
The 750hrsTT is for people who have NOT completed an Int/Mod course in the last 12months and not flown >50 hrs in the last 12 months. I also spoke with Ian Cheese who seemed to confirm this as he looked at my CV and the first thing he looked at was where i did my training (BFC Modular) which he said great all in one place, you have done >50hrs in the last 12 months, we would like to hear from you, no mention of 750TT, I have 230hrs.
Like i say this was my understanding, but as my wife always says I could wrong!!!
However with their current requirement I think the 750TT would cause them problems. Time will tell I guess.
Cheers
Dan
The 750hrsTT is for people who have NOT completed an Int/Mod course in the last 12months and not flown >50 hrs in the last 12 months. I also spoke with Ian Cheese who seemed to confirm this as he looked at my CV and the first thing he looked at was where i did my training (BFC Modular) which he said great all in one place, you have done >50hrs in the last 12 months, we would like to hear from you, no mention of 750TT, I have 230hrs.
Like i say this was my understanding, but as my wife always says I could wrong!!!
However with their current requirement I think the 750TT would cause them problems. Time will tell I guess.
Cheers
Dan
Last edited by Dan 98; 3rd Sep 2006 at 09:58.
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Gee, what tripe. Do you know what the price of the conferences I have to attend can be? Take a look at Terrapin's website for instance.
It is a cheap conference for what it offers in terms of networking, and up to date gen on recruitment.
It is a cheap conference for what it offers in terms of networking, and up to date gen on recruitment.
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Shame !
Its a shame there wasn't more notice on this conference. I would have liked to have attended this conference..... and I agree, compared to engineering confs I've attended in my time, not that expensive, however, that said, I've been to recruitment fairs (which to some extent, this is what this was) and they were always free, the tab picked up by the prospective employers (but like everything in professional aviation nowadays it seems the individual is expected to pick up the tab on more and more.......but thats another debate!).
Anyway, my point is a fwe weeks ago I did a search on google looking for information on this years coming BALPA EOC and could only find a link for last years ............. which I was unable to attend due to no tickets available. That was held in mid October and I was expecting this years to be at the same time of year. By the time I found out about this years it was again too late and I was left ....... quite literally .. holding the baby ;-) :-( ..bless her !
CG.
Anyway, my point is a fwe weeks ago I did a search on google looking for information on this years coming BALPA EOC and could only find a link for last years ............. which I was unable to attend due to no tickets available. That was held in mid October and I was expecting this years to be at the same time of year. By the time I found out about this years it was again too late and I was left ....... quite literally .. holding the baby ;-) :-( ..bless her !
CG.
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these meetings make me sick. just by looking at all these desperated wanabees running around a chief operator or a recruiter, trying to get his attention makes me realize how low we went...
in french we call that "lecheur de culs" and I am sure some of these wanabees are even asking if they can work for free or ready to pay to work.
I dont have their 50 hours, and I don't care...I have applied online where minimum requirement are "smarter" and I got a job.All the jobs I got in the past was by sending my cv or calling the company and asking if they had an opening.
Fly 2-3 hours before the interview is certainly wellseen, but 50 hours, ahahah!and what about those pilots who are short of money and have not find any employment within 6 months after their CPL?
to all of you!
in french we call that "lecheur de culs" and I am sure some of these wanabees are even asking if they can work for free or ready to pay to work.
I dont have their 50 hours, and I don't care...I have applied online where minimum requirement are "smarter" and I got a job.All the jobs I got in the past was by sending my cv or calling the company and asking if they had an opening.
Fly 2-3 hours before the interview is certainly wellseen, but 50 hours, ahahah!and what about those pilots who are short of money and have not find any employment within 6 months after their CPL?
to all of you!
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Scroggs
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Way too obvious and straight forward ! Good point though !! May have been a blessing though that I hadn't coughed up for both 2005 and 2006. Last year I was full of a really nasty cold and there was no way I could have attended in that state. This year just a regular head cold - enough to keep me on the ground ! Don't really get colds very often but by some weird coincidence I had them on the BLAPA EOC weekend. When's next years so I can boost my immune system in advance ;-)
Anyone else got any feedback their wouldn't mind sharing with us all !
Cheers,
CG.
Anyone else got any feedback their wouldn't mind sharing with us all !
Cheers,
CG.
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I went to 2006 and 2005 EOCs.
Definitely a different tone this year - the now-traditional show of hands to determine the experience profile of the audience revealed markedly fewer low-timers (my estimate around 10% this year compared with 75%+ last year). Numbers were also well down - last year was oversubscribed (400+) and attendance this year was around 240 according to the organisers. There were a number of military pilots and more in the 1500+TT band this year too.
Airline presentations were similar to last year (even the Taiwan/ China jokes from China Airlines
) but more cautious – with the exception of Easyjet, no one was banding large recruitment figures about though all presenters were up-beat in general. With the odd exception (some 13000 hour American with a chip on his shoulder
), questions were few and to the point. Several airlines (e.g. EZY, MYT, TC, FC) seem now to have two distinct targets – low time integrated from Oxford or Jerez or CTC (poor old Cabair!) or 1500TT+ turbo or twin FOs
. For those of us somewhere in the middle options are more limited, though the difference between what they want and what they get means I’m not overly worried right now!
A last minute change meant that the usual (and in my view slightly patronising) ‘chin-up’ speech from some newly-trained FO didn’t happen, with Capt Nathan Burkitt from Thomsonfly giving the pep talk instead. I thought he did well given the short notice, though a lot of it was obvious advice.
The afternoon informal session had less of a bun-fight atmosphere, due to the lower numbers attending and the fact that nearly all the companies stated clearly they would not be taking CVs (on-line is the future folks!). BMI Baby was swamped, as was Jet2 for the reasons already mentioned. Cathay was deserted (not surprising given the average experience in the room) but did give away natty little 747 fridge magnets.
Overall? As a job fair, not much use really but then I don’t think that’s the intention. As a networking opportunity (with fellow Wannabes as well as airline bods) and a chance to put faces to names etc, well worth it in my view and I think £55 is fair, for the record.
Roll on the PPRuNe seminar now…
Definitely a different tone this year - the now-traditional show of hands to determine the experience profile of the audience revealed markedly fewer low-timers (my estimate around 10% this year compared with 75%+ last year). Numbers were also well down - last year was oversubscribed (400+) and attendance this year was around 240 according to the organisers. There were a number of military pilots and more in the 1500+TT band this year too.
Airline presentations were similar to last year (even the Taiwan/ China jokes from China Airlines
) but more cautious – with the exception of Easyjet, no one was banding large recruitment figures about though all presenters were up-beat in general. With the odd exception (some 13000 hour American with a chip on his shoulder ), questions were few and to the point. Several airlines (e.g. EZY, MYT, TC, FC) seem now to have two distinct targets – low time integrated from Oxford or Jerez or CTC (poor old Cabair!) or 1500TT+ turbo or twin FOs . For those of us somewhere in the middle options are more limited, though the difference between what they want and what they get means I’m not overly worried right now!A last minute change meant that the usual (and in my view slightly patronising) ‘chin-up’ speech from some newly-trained FO didn’t happen, with Capt Nathan Burkitt from Thomsonfly giving the pep talk instead. I thought he did well given the short notice, though a lot of it was obvious advice.
The afternoon informal session had less of a bun-fight atmosphere, due to the lower numbers attending and the fact that nearly all the companies stated clearly they would not be taking CVs (on-line is the future folks!). BMI Baby was swamped, as was Jet2 for the reasons already mentioned. Cathay was deserted (not surprising given the average experience in the room) but did give away natty little 747 fridge magnets.
Overall? As a job fair, not much use really but then I don’t think that’s the intention. As a networking opportunity (with fellow Wannabes as well as airline bods) and a chance to put faces to names etc, well worth it in my view and I think £55 is fair, for the record.
Roll on the PPRuNe seminar now…
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I guess most of us are screwed,we are not integrated ,300-500h tt and no turboprop experience. This is what we have in Europe, so I really think ailines are talking Bullock!
I did good no to attend.
Dartagnan
I really cant work you out.
In one breath you are going on about how crap all of this is and how you have saved money by not going as you dont have the hour requirements necessary.
And in a different post you are going on about how you got a job despite not having this and that and not paying for all of this.
To be honest you either dont fly or you have a real chip on your shoulder. If you are an experienced pilot (Getting paid to fly commercially), its polite to come on here and try and help people.....
.....not just post tripe
I really cant work you out.
In one breath you are going on about how crap all of this is and how you have saved money by not going as you dont have the hour requirements necessary.
And in a different post you are going on about how you got a job despite not having this and that and not paying for all of this.
To be honest you either dont fly or you have a real chip on your shoulder. If you are an experienced pilot (Getting paid to fly commercially), its polite to come on here and try and help people.....
.....not just post tripe
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sorry FunFlyin, what I was meaning:this market is filled with many unemployed pilots who have around 300-500h and now they must listen at the crap of recruiters telling them they need 1500h, or no hours at all (Integrated school)...what kind of joke is that?
For my part. I have little more than 300h(I am a "modular"), but no jet or real turbine experience and I got an offer on eavy jet. the secret: keep your money as a carotte !
so guys, take it easy, send as many CV you can , and keep current. they will need you soon!
For my part. I have little more than 300h(I am a "modular"), but no jet or real turbine experience and I got an offer on eavy jet. the secret: keep your money as a carotte !
so guys, take it easy, send as many CV you can , and keep current. they will need you soon!
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EGBKFLYER.
Have you bought that caravan yet.
The whole event was brilliant for me as I met 4 Pilot managers who I have been e-mailing for the last 2 years but had never had the chance to meet until Saturday. They all remembered me very well from my e-mails and letters and I had a very good chat with each of them.
Its all about networking and getting yourself known.
The man from BMI Baby ( wont mention his name again ) knew exactly who I was even though it has been 6 months since I last e-mailed him. Now that he has met me in the flesh, I feel my future e-mails and letters may be kept higher up the pile so to speak. I will e-mail him again this week thanking him for his time at the event etc etc etc.
At least me and EGBKFLYER had breakfast with a pilot manager from a large turboprop outfit. And it was him that came and sat with us and not us that went and sat with him.
Networking, networking and networking. That's what its all about in this game.
Got a nice e-mail today for a possible future sim check out of the event anyway.
£55, was it worth it. Most definitely.
Have you bought that caravan yet.
The whole event was brilliant for me as I met 4 Pilot managers who I have been e-mailing for the last 2 years but had never had the chance to meet until Saturday. They all remembered me very well from my e-mails and letters and I had a very good chat with each of them.
Its all about networking and getting yourself known.
The man from BMI Baby ( wont mention his name again ) knew exactly who I was even though it has been 6 months since I last e-mailed him. Now that he has met me in the flesh, I feel my future e-mails and letters may be kept higher up the pile so to speak. I will e-mail him again this week thanking him for his time at the event etc etc etc.
At least me and EGBKFLYER had breakfast with a pilot manager from a large turboprop outfit. And it was him that came and sat with us and not us that went and sat with him.
Networking, networking and networking. That's what its all about in this game.
Got a nice e-mail today for a possible future sim check out of the event anyway.
£55, was it worth it. Most definitely.
Last edited by EGCC4284; 4th Sep 2006 at 22:40.
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BALPA are next to useless for wannabees.The conference is basically an opportunity for flight managers / recruiters / and ex servicemen now in recruitment to have a bit of a catch up and a bite to eat at our expense.
The IPA is a far better bet for low houred / newly qualified pilots. I have always found them very helpful when it comes to preparing CV's and providing info on selection procedures. I have maintained my membership of the IPA despite being in BALPA as I feel they would offer more assistance if I ever found myself out of work.
Good luck to all those looking for that first break. Don't allow yourselves to be limited by the handful of companies that CTC and OATS tell you to apply to. Use the IPA to find out about the hidden world of air taxi / air photography / cargo / survey work / instructing / corporate flying / MAF / Glider towing / Para dropping etc... The experience is invaluable and you can be logging hours whilst your mate from the same course wallows in self pity and disbelief wondering why BA / Virgin / BMI / GB.....haven't had the courtesy to invite him to an interview despite that fact he passed all his exams first time etc...!
The IPA is a far better bet for low houred / newly qualified pilots. I have always found them very helpful when it comes to preparing CV's and providing info on selection procedures. I have maintained my membership of the IPA despite being in BALPA as I feel they would offer more assistance if I ever found myself out of work.
Good luck to all those looking for that first break. Don't allow yourselves to be limited by the handful of companies that CTC and OATS tell you to apply to. Use the IPA to find out about the hidden world of air taxi / air photography / cargo / survey work / instructing / corporate flying / MAF / Glider towing / Para dropping etc... The experience is invaluable and you can be logging hours whilst your mate from the same course wallows in self pity and disbelief wondering why BA / Virgin / BMI / GB.....haven't had the courtesy to invite him to an interview despite that fact he passed all his exams first time etc...!
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Invaluable
With the BALPA EOC you have to recognise that, as a wannabe, the event is not designed especially for you. However, since you are welcome to attend, it is a real opportunity to make an impression in a world where such opportunities are more than a little scarce. Just being there, shaking hands and spending 2 mins with a range of people who will in all probability shape your future career was, to my mind, the only thing worth joining BALPA for at that stage.
I went as a wannabe in '04 the day after I finished my training and again in '05. In '04 it was a sobering reality check...I think the only thing I might have qualified for was CABAIR's single engine instructor scheme! [Actually looking back I did get what I thought was a foot in the door with one regional operator based in the south west, but (god rest his soul) the gentleman concerned passed away shortly afterwards, seemingly along with my hopes of a Q400 type rating!]
By '05 I was an Instructor, I felt a bit more confident because I could demonstrate that I had been doing all the right things, my ratings and medical were freshly renewed and my aviation CV had progressed. Some recruiters remembered my face, and were willing to offer me an update on the world as they saw it. Professional yet short and snappy encounters is what they seem to like..not that I go in for it, but this is basically "Aviation Speed Dating" ! :-) Others came up and said hello, one even bought me a beer! Give them a good reason and many will take your CV..even those who say otherwise! I absorbed a lot of sound advice, took a reality check on what the TRTOs were telling me, and got a better feeling for the 'market', though my expectations weren't high.
To my delight I did get a few "you're on file, we might call you in the future" letters and an interview with a UK based 737 operator which led to an immediate assessment and then ... the holding-pool. This was fantastic, but for the fact that it all happened during the first 2 weeks of my self-sponsored A320 course at GECAT !
Timing (and hindsight) is everything of course but I'd gone past the point of no return...fate has been good to me and, thankfully, I am now flying 320/1s out of LHR.
I know it is easy to become disillusioned, but my advice would be not to underestimate the opportunity this conference presents...at least one of my subsequent job offers (they really are like London buses) came as a result of a face-to-face encounter at the BALPA EOC ... and there are others out there who will at least get to meet you and put a name to a face. At some stage in the future, that might make a difference.
Happy Landings and Be Lucky !
George.
I went as a wannabe in '04 the day after I finished my training and again in '05. In '04 it was a sobering reality check...I think the only thing I might have qualified for was CABAIR's single engine instructor scheme! [Actually looking back I did get what I thought was a foot in the door with one regional operator based in the south west, but (god rest his soul) the gentleman concerned passed away shortly afterwards, seemingly along with my hopes of a Q400 type rating!]
By '05 I was an Instructor, I felt a bit more confident because I could demonstrate that I had been doing all the right things, my ratings and medical were freshly renewed and my aviation CV had progressed. Some recruiters remembered my face, and were willing to offer me an update on the world as they saw it. Professional yet short and snappy encounters is what they seem to like..not that I go in for it, but this is basically "Aviation Speed Dating" ! :-) Others came up and said hello, one even bought me a beer! Give them a good reason and many will take your CV..even those who say otherwise! I absorbed a lot of sound advice, took a reality check on what the TRTOs were telling me, and got a better feeling for the 'market', though my expectations weren't high.
To my delight I did get a few "you're on file, we might call you in the future" letters and an interview with a UK based 737 operator which led to an immediate assessment and then ... the holding-pool. This was fantastic, but for the fact that it all happened during the first 2 weeks of my self-sponsored A320 course at GECAT !
Timing (and hindsight) is everything of course but I'd gone past the point of no return...fate has been good to me and, thankfully, I am now flying 320/1s out of LHR. I know it is easy to become disillusioned, but my advice would be not to underestimate the opportunity this conference presents...at least one of my subsequent job offers (they really are like London buses) came as a result of a face-to-face encounter at the BALPA EOC ... and there are others out there who will at least get to meet you and put a name to a face. At some stage in the future, that might make a difference.
Happy Landings and Be Lucky !
George.
Last edited by George Foreman; 5th Sep 2006 at 13:37. Reason: spelling
Gizajob
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Matzpenetration - thanks for your heads-up on IPA. However, your assessment of EOC is rubbish. The recruiters and managers I saw on Saturday were either giving presentations or spent the whole afternoon talking to the queue of people at their stand. If they caught up on some gossip over a soggy spring roll at lunchtime, I have no problem with that... That said, I generally agree with you the BALPA isn't too great at helping wannabes - but they're a union not a recruitment agency (AFAIK Unison, MSF or any other union I come into contact with doesn't help their wannabes any more than BALPA does).
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Gizajob
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Same man was in front of me at the CTC stand and had a go at Lee Woodward for not doing anything for him! Lee (very politely I thought) pointed out that with 13k hours, perhaps he should go and talk to some of the others in the room (Cathay, Emirates etc etc) but he wasn't having any of it. Nutter.
EGCC - still looking for the caravan and a nice site at the end of the runway at Soton...
EGCC - still looking for the caravan and a nice site at the end of the runway at Soton...