Searching for TR 737 partner
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I can only join invisiblemoon on this matter. As already stated I am rated on the 737 as well - There is 4 days left before it will expiry.
I have tried to apply to almost every airline in the world, and most of the times the airlines don't even bother sending you a reply...
And this is the same with the other guys I know...
Fortunately I have now found a job, but not on the 737...
So stay away from the 737. In Denmark the GA market is starting to need pilots, and I guess its the same in other countries. But in order to get these jobs you will have to show up in person... Before I got the job with Tfly, I was employed by a small GA company, working in the administration and as pilot on demand, with the possibility of flying more and more...
So perhaps the good old road to the right seat is starting to be an option again...
Good luck...
I have tried to apply to almost every airline in the world, and most of the times the airlines don't even bother sending you a reply...
And this is the same with the other guys I know...
Fortunately I have now found a job, but not on the 737...
So stay away from the 737. In Denmark the GA market is starting to need pilots, and I guess its the same in other countries. But in order to get these jobs you will have to show up in person... Before I got the job with Tfly, I was employed by a small GA company, working in the administration and as pilot on demand, with the possibility of flying more and more...
So perhaps the good old road to the right seat is starting to be an option again...
Good luck...
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Originally Posted by invisiblemoon
Guys, i've already spread my opinion about it but i'll try again and perhaps you won't lose your hard earned money in a useless piece of paper.
I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed.
I have send approx 80 tailored letters all reviewed by english natives (i'm not) to avoid any spelling or grammatical mistakes, so nothing's wrong on my side.
Sad but true some TRTO are also selling hours on that type. Guess what ? The waiting list ist endless, about 1 year long.
The actual situation on the 737 market ?
TR without hours = no chance at all
TR with 100h = not better, in fact only ryanair could employ you
In my opinion you should try another type (turboprop especially) because the 737 TR is so "cheap" nowadays that everybody is jumping on it.
Actually this rating is totally useless unless you have hours on type in a fairly large amount (probably 500 on type but i would'nt bet on it). Believe me, i'm on the 737 market right now, so i know what i'm talking about.
I really don't know what to expect with +500 on type, i suppose you *could* find employement in a 6-12 month timeframe.
I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed.
I have send approx 80 tailored letters all reviewed by english natives (i'm not) to avoid any spelling or grammatical mistakes, so nothing's wrong on my side.
Sad but true some TRTO are also selling hours on that type. Guess what ? The waiting list ist endless, about 1 year long.
The actual situation on the 737 market ?
TR without hours = no chance at all
TR with 100h = not better, in fact only ryanair could employ you
In my opinion you should try another type (turboprop especially) because the 737 TR is so "cheap" nowadays that everybody is jumping on it.
Actually this rating is totally useless unless you have hours on type in a fairly large amount (probably 500 on type but i would'nt bet on it). Believe me, i'm on the 737 market right now, so i know what i'm talking about.
I really don't know what to expect with +500 on type, i suppose you *could* find employement in a 6-12 month timeframe.
In my opinion: forget the typerating on ANY aircraft unless you are certain to have a job. . People seem to forget that a rating can expire and to keep it valid it will bring extra costs. So just keep your money with the bank and try to find something else in aviation (instructor, towing gliders....).
Good luck to all
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"I know it's not like two different type ratings, if fact the difference is not that big between NG and classic.
My advice to you. Do the classic rating, (cheaper).
If the airline requires you to have the NG do a difference course, otherwise no
If you want to get a job quick, invest your money on hours on type instead."
If you only have 300hours total, do a classic rating then no ailine will offer you a differences course unless you have 100hours on type but if you have NG rating then you can do a differences course to a classic model if required by the operator.
"I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed." - Invisible moon, have you and your buddies approached Ryanair? They are hiring people with NG ratings and no hours on type. It wont be advertised on their website but they have taken on guys in a similar situation to you.
My advice to you. Do the classic rating, (cheaper).
If the airline requires you to have the NG do a difference course, otherwise no
If you want to get a job quick, invest your money on hours on type instead."
If you only have 300hours total, do a classic rating then no ailine will offer you a differences course unless you have 100hours on type but if you have NG rating then you can do a differences course to a classic model if required by the operator.
"I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed." - Invisible moon, have you and your buddies approached Ryanair? They are hiring people with NG ratings and no hours on type. It wont be advertised on their website but they have taken on guys in a similar situation to you.
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Global Pilot, thank with your advice but i don't know how they managed to get in without hours on type, as they require 100h as an absolute minimum when you are already type rated (NG or not).
Perhaps they know some highly experienced captains working there.
As far as the online application form is concerned, I don't know wether to apply or not without the minimums because i don't want to be dismissed from employment but i think i should reconsider, what do you think about it ?
Please PM if you've any additionnal info
Perhaps they know some highly experienced captains working there.
As far as the online application form is concerned, I don't know wether to apply or not without the minimums because i don't want to be dismissed from employment but i think i should reconsider, what do you think about it ?
Please PM if you've any additionnal info
Last edited by invisiblemoon; 26th Jun 2006 at 14:03.
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If you buy a TR then think of buying some line training/experience too. Like electrical devices you still have to buy the plug to make it work or a camera without memory is of no use. When considering TR think how am I going to make it effective? Without some or even any time on type you have little chance of progressing further.
However once you go along the type rating path and also factor in line experience time then the true cost will equal or suepersede your original fATPL costs! Think very carefully, it's no good closing your eyes and thinking it'll be different for you because why would it be. One thing is for sure and that's the large cost/debt and that isn't going to go away for anyone.
If people can pay for TRSS then why not gain 1000hrs by instructing and even if you get paid nothing for it then at least you can live on the money that you would have spent on the TR. Just a thought I personally will go along the TR and Line experience but that's because I can afford it without going to the bank, I realise that not everyone is in that circumstance so tread carefully and please, please THINK before being allured into what you may or may not need.
Good luck to all.....
However once you go along the type rating path and also factor in line experience time then the true cost will equal or suepersede your original fATPL costs! Think very carefully, it's no good closing your eyes and thinking it'll be different for you because why would it be. One thing is for sure and that's the large cost/debt and that isn't going to go away for anyone.
If people can pay for TRSS then why not gain 1000hrs by instructing and even if you get paid nothing for it then at least you can live on the money that you would have spent on the TR. Just a thought I personally will go along the TR and Line experience but that's because I can afford it without going to the bank, I realise that not everyone is in that circumstance so tread carefully and please, please THINK before being allured into what you may or may not need.
Good luck to all.....
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If I tell you I find something like:
737 NG+Classic = 22000 euros (all included); and the possibility to do line training for FREE, and if not doing line training or fund a job within 1 year, the first Proficiency check for keep it valid for the second year will be FREE; How do you think about that?
DAvide
737 NG+Classic = 22000 euros (all included); and the possibility to do line training for FREE, and if not doing line training or fund a job within 1 year, the first Proficiency check for keep it valid for the second year will be FREE; How do you think about that?
DAvide
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Originally Posted by invisiblemoon
Guys, i've already spread my opinion about it but i'll try again and perhaps you won't lose your hard earned money in a useless piece of paper.
I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed.
I have send approx 80 tailored letters all reviewed by english natives (i'm not) to avoid any spelling or grammatical mistakes, so nothing's wrong on my side.
Sad but true some TRTO are also selling hours on that type. Guess what ? The waiting list ist endless, about 1 year long.
The actual situation on the 737 market ?
TR without hours = no chance at all
TR with 100h = not better, in fact only ryanair could employ you
In my opinion you should try another type (turboprop especially) because the 737 TR is so "cheap" nowadays that everybody is jumping on it.
Actually this rating is totally useless unless you have hours on type in a fairly large amount (probably 500 on type but i would'nt bet on it). Believe me, i'm on the 737 market right now, so i know what i'm talking about.
I really don't know what to expect with +500 on type, i suppose you *could* find employement in a 6-12 month timeframe.
I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed.
I have send approx 80 tailored letters all reviewed by english natives (i'm not) to avoid any spelling or grammatical mistakes, so nothing's wrong on my side.
Sad but true some TRTO are also selling hours on that type. Guess what ? The waiting list ist endless, about 1 year long.
The actual situation on the 737 market ?
TR without hours = no chance at all
TR with 100h = not better, in fact only ryanair could employ you
In my opinion you should try another type (turboprop especially) because the 737 TR is so "cheap" nowadays that everybody is jumping on it.
Actually this rating is totally useless unless you have hours on type in a fairly large amount (probably 500 on type but i would'nt bet on it). Believe me, i'm on the 737 market right now, so i know what i'm talking about.
I really don't know what to expect with +500 on type, i suppose you *could* find employement in a 6-12 month timeframe.
maybe you should change your attitdue. It is hot about employment ,here in UK (scroggs' theory).
the best employer is eaglejet for a net salary of 35'000$.try them...
(salary you have to pay to their boss, ahah!!)
do not pay for a t/r with no job guaranty!and having an expired t/r does not help very much...
and still, TRTO are full of students who wont find a job and will be in deepest problems with their bank, family,...!!!
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Originally Posted by Dmax
If I tell you I find something like:
737 NG+Classic = 22000 euros (all included); and the possibility to do line training for FREE, and if not doing line training or fund a job within 1 year, the first Proficiency check for keep it valid for the second year will be FREE; How do you think about that?
DAvide
737 NG+Classic = 22000 euros (all included); and the possibility to do line training for FREE, and if not doing line training or fund a job within 1 year, the first Proficiency check for keep it valid for the second year will be FREE; How do you think about that?
DAvide
The lowest I could find is this one:
737 NG+Classic = 22 700 Euros. (base check included)
17700 type rating + 5000 base check. /www.randhem.com
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When to stop paying for a job , £50,000 about right ??
How can anyone justify spending in excess of £50,000 GBP in order to gain a job , are you crazy ??
Even having completed your training your chances of employment remain unchanged. If pilots are desperatly required then more airlines would run sponsorship programmes to accomodate for the increase in vacancies.
This forum consists of a significant number of people who all seek the same thing , a chance to become a commercial airline pilot. Having completed your training you all resort to a forum then surely the airline industry isn't looking as promising as your training partners are expressing.
Can you name me another career that people pay in excess of £50,000 gbp in order to successfuly gain employment .... hmmmm
You are willing to pay a ridiculous sum of money which offers no future guarantee of employment in order to fulfil a "dream" .... become a glorified bus driver . I commend you
Even having completed your training your chances of employment remain unchanged. If pilots are desperatly required then more airlines would run sponsorship programmes to accomodate for the increase in vacancies.
This forum consists of a significant number of people who all seek the same thing , a chance to become a commercial airline pilot. Having completed your training you all resort to a forum then surely the airline industry isn't looking as promising as your training partners are expressing.
Can you name me another career that people pay in excess of £50,000 gbp in order to successfuly gain employment .... hmmmm
You are willing to pay a ridiculous sum of money which offers no future guarantee of employment in order to fulfil a "dream" .... become a glorified bus driver . I commend you
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Can you name me another career that people pay in excess of £50,000 gbp in order to successfuly gain employment .... hmmmm
Animal2k6 - Off the top of my head try surgeon, doctor, anaesthetist dentist, psychologist, psychiatrist, optician, barrister, solicitors, accountant, surveyors and anybody with a third level degree higher than ordinary – Masters, PhD etc.
If you aim low enough, the state might just provide you with a shovel or brush. After the revoloution you might be able to demand a right seat for free but for now you have to pay
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To Carbheaton
Good Call. Animal2k6- it seems you do not have all the facts to hand. Being a "glorified bus driver" is one of the best jobs in the world. I have worked in the airline industry as crew, true it is not as glamorous as it used to be however it's still a good way to make a living. The airline I worked for was good, we were catered for positioned and provided with hotels such as the Hilton with discounted food and drinks while on night stops and stop overs.
I also have spent some of my life working in offices, from the impression I get from you, no offence ment but, that is where you seem to belong. I have met one or two pilots who have told me that spending the money was not worth it but then they don't enjoy the work and they too should go back to 9-5 monday to friday packed into hot and stuffy tubes, where the only thing you look forward to is getting so drunk on Friday night that you forget how crap the week has just been.
The benefits of being an Airline Pilot are, from my point of veiw:
1) Working within a team of people who love what they do and choose to be there. We have a lot of laughs both at work and out of work. I have made a lot of friends, we all share the same interests and aircrew know how to enjoy themselves and have fun.
2) The smell of JET A1, great!!!
3) Turing up for work knowing that you are going somewhere different. Being able to say today I went to Sharm-El-Sheikh. You will most likely only spend 1 hour on the ground for the turn around but 15 mins of sun on your face helps make it a good day, when everyone in England is cold and wet.
4) The view out of the window, you get to see many things that will amaze you and take your breath away. Best office view in the world, bar astronauts.
5) Not having to spend the entire day staring at a computer screen stressing about meeting deadlines and not looking forward to the long que at the sandwich place.
6) Not having to take our work home with us. when we get home we can chill out and go out for dinner.
7) not having to say I am going to work, its not work its fun!
8) discounts at hotels and bars all over the world, they like aircrew. Miami is great place to go.
9) Discounts on flight, be it on more of the major operators however there are organisations that sell discounted tickets. First or Business class on 10% airfare, can't complain.
10) Good pay with most airlines.
11) Good amount of holiday.
12) most good airlines will give you a roster a month to half month in advance, so you can make plans, jut make sure not to make plans during standby days.
13 the list is endless and I can't be bothered to name the rest.
To round off I have spend about £45K by now and it is worth it!!
DMAX, I know a few people who have been in aviaiton for 40 years and have given me some advise. DO NOT go to Sabena, it is not as good as you hear it is. Go somewhere else. I will not go there!
At Farnborough CAE said they were trying to solve gloabal pilot shortages. They train pilots for Ryanair in Amsterdam, I am waiting to hear from them as I am looking into paying for a type rating with a view to being placed by the training organistation. At the moment I do not have the luxruy of being able to wait two to three months for a sim check with an airline. so I am looking around. I also have been told not to go with any Belgian companies other than those linked to Lufthansa.
I would go Classic / NG less time the airlines needs to spend training you, plus some people take time converting to glass cockpit and find the FMS hard.
I would not rule out the Airbus family or the 757 as there are position out there for 75/76 people.
Again no one can offer a gurantee of placement because it is down to the person, are they employable they might have all the licences but the wrong frame of mind.
I know a few people who self funded a type rating, they did have job offers at the end but they had to pay for it themselves. They self funded the whole course around £100k in total with living expenses, and now they have jobs and are gaining experience, so it is worth spending the money as no one else in this country is going to help you. The government does not see general aviation as an industry so no help from them. However become a nurse, doctor or lawyer and you will get a lot of help form the government so maybe the peole who think airline pilots are just bus drivers with wings should seek those industries plus soon you will be able to buy a chep house on a flood plane in Kent, excellent!
Good luck to all those who take a chance to change their lives, if you truely love it, it will be worth it when you succeed.
All the best, Borat.
Good Call. Animal2k6- it seems you do not have all the facts to hand. Being a "glorified bus driver" is one of the best jobs in the world. I have worked in the airline industry as crew, true it is not as glamorous as it used to be however it's still a good way to make a living. The airline I worked for was good, we were catered for positioned and provided with hotels such as the Hilton with discounted food and drinks while on night stops and stop overs.
I also have spent some of my life working in offices, from the impression I get from you, no offence ment but, that is where you seem to belong. I have met one or two pilots who have told me that spending the money was not worth it but then they don't enjoy the work and they too should go back to 9-5 monday to friday packed into hot and stuffy tubes, where the only thing you look forward to is getting so drunk on Friday night that you forget how crap the week has just been.
The benefits of being an Airline Pilot are, from my point of veiw:
1) Working within a team of people who love what they do and choose to be there. We have a lot of laughs both at work and out of work. I have made a lot of friends, we all share the same interests and aircrew know how to enjoy themselves and have fun.
2) The smell of JET A1, great!!!
3) Turing up for work knowing that you are going somewhere different. Being able to say today I went to Sharm-El-Sheikh. You will most likely only spend 1 hour on the ground for the turn around but 15 mins of sun on your face helps make it a good day, when everyone in England is cold and wet.
4) The view out of the window, you get to see many things that will amaze you and take your breath away. Best office view in the world, bar astronauts.
5) Not having to spend the entire day staring at a computer screen stressing about meeting deadlines and not looking forward to the long que at the sandwich place.
6) Not having to take our work home with us. when we get home we can chill out and go out for dinner.
7) not having to say I am going to work, its not work its fun!
8) discounts at hotels and bars all over the world, they like aircrew. Miami is great place to go.
9) Discounts on flight, be it on more of the major operators however there are organisations that sell discounted tickets. First or Business class on 10% airfare, can't complain.
10) Good pay with most airlines.
11) Good amount of holiday.
12) most good airlines will give you a roster a month to half month in advance, so you can make plans, jut make sure not to make plans during standby days.
13 the list is endless and I can't be bothered to name the rest.
To round off I have spend about £45K by now and it is worth it!!
DMAX, I know a few people who have been in aviaiton for 40 years and have given me some advise. DO NOT go to Sabena, it is not as good as you hear it is. Go somewhere else. I will not go there!
At Farnborough CAE said they were trying to solve gloabal pilot shortages. They train pilots for Ryanair in Amsterdam, I am waiting to hear from them as I am looking into paying for a type rating with a view to being placed by the training organistation. At the moment I do not have the luxruy of being able to wait two to three months for a sim check with an airline. so I am looking around. I also have been told not to go with any Belgian companies other than those linked to Lufthansa.
I would go Classic / NG less time the airlines needs to spend training you, plus some people take time converting to glass cockpit and find the FMS hard.
I would not rule out the Airbus family or the 757 as there are position out there for 75/76 people.
Again no one can offer a gurantee of placement because it is down to the person, are they employable they might have all the licences but the wrong frame of mind.
I know a few people who self funded a type rating, they did have job offers at the end but they had to pay for it themselves. They self funded the whole course around £100k in total with living expenses, and now they have jobs and are gaining experience, so it is worth spending the money as no one else in this country is going to help you. The government does not see general aviation as an industry so no help from them. However become a nurse, doctor or lawyer and you will get a lot of help form the government so maybe the peole who think airline pilots are just bus drivers with wings should seek those industries plus soon you will be able to buy a chep house on a flood plane in Kent, excellent!
Good luck to all those who take a chance to change their lives, if you truely love it, it will be worth it when you succeed.
All the best, Borat.
Last edited by Kazakhstan; 25th Jul 2006 at 13:59.
