Type Rating - Ryanair?
Join Date: May 2001
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Come on, the reality is good and poor students are every where and although other FTO's are just as capable of producing good students as Oxford, Oxford will always have this monopoly because of a.) It's location (Supposedly educated, affluent people live there), b.) The name, c.) It's size, d.) The perceived quality (a+b+c), e.) An amazing marketing machine and f.) Because of the old boys network.
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Line training is the red line nobody should ever accept to cross. it is to pay for flying under normal operations and it ruins the entire industry.
Moreover, Ryanair and the likes aren't going to open their doors to TR pilots if everybody's willing to pay for line training as well. What's the next step ?
In top of that, take care of the "line training programs", it's usually a beautiful scam. TRTO's are trying to sell you their TR and that's all. I did that, went there before you, and believe me no one is able to give you what you want.
If you wanna go with FSB or Hub'air you're totaly crazy if you think you're the first one to get the idea. All what they want is your money foe the TR, they just can't cope with demand from crazy pilots willing to pay for line training. The hard fact is that NOTHING is under agreement concerning the line training part.
From horse's mouth you have to wait around one year to get the line training, if you get it at the end of the day.
Moreover, Ryanair and the likes aren't going to open their doors to TR pilots if everybody's willing to pay for line training as well. What's the next step ?
In top of that, take care of the "line training programs", it's usually a beautiful scam. TRTO's are trying to sell you their TR and that's all. I did that, went there before you, and believe me no one is able to give you what you want.
If you wanna go with FSB or Hub'air you're totaly crazy if you think you're the first one to get the idea. All what they want is your money foe the TR, they just can't cope with demand from crazy pilots willing to pay for line training. The hard fact is that NOTHING is under agreement concerning the line training part.
From horse's mouth you have to wait around one year to get the line training, if you get it at the end of the day.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Invisiblemoon
FSB is my plan - I have several mails from FSB confirming that you get LT for free and even get paid during this. According to my last mail from them, they are working on getting 2-3 other airlines on the LT too to reduce the waitingtime (getting other airlines in on this is both good and bad) but ending up with the typerating for starters must be a good thing compare to not have one at all when you apply to 737 carriers (other than Ryanair) - then getting 100 hrs on type if you dont get a job within the first yr must be even better. IF 1.000 pilots is needed at Ezy & Ryanair alone next yr - I think im better of with a rating than if I did not have a rating.
Nobody forbids me to apply while waiting for the LT (which you get paid €18/hr for). Several students have been placed before starting the LT (and skipped it of course as FSB helps placing students)
Jannik
FSB is my plan - I have several mails from FSB confirming that you get LT for free and even get paid during this. According to my last mail from them, they are working on getting 2-3 other airlines on the LT too to reduce the waitingtime (getting other airlines in on this is both good and bad) but ending up with the typerating for starters must be a good thing compare to not have one at all when you apply to 737 carriers (other than Ryanair) - then getting 100 hrs on type if you dont get a job within the first yr must be even better. IF 1.000 pilots is needed at Ezy & Ryanair alone next yr - I think im better of with a rating than if I did not have a rating.
Nobody forbids me to apply while waiting for the LT (which you get paid €18/hr for). Several students have been placed before starting the LT (and skipped it of course as FSB helps placing students)
Jannik
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So let me get this right, you're half way through your course and already looking to spend more money on a TR and then join ryanair out of all places?!? 
How about you research all the SSTR opportnuties and then put that aside whilst you concentrate on airlines who don't make you pay, the CTC ATP scheme and FI opportunities.
Paying to fly for a low cost airline like ryanair is madness, to a level you will never appreciate until you are doing it
How about you research all the SSTR opportnuties and then put that aside whilst you concentrate on airlines who don't make you pay, the CTC ATP scheme and FI opportunities.
Paying to fly for a low cost airline like ryanair is madness, to a level you will never appreciate until you are doing it
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Another reason I go for the TR (might give CTC a shot) is that where I come from a FI rating is almost same price as a TR - and the business is moving fast at the moment - so the 5 guys who just did a TR got jobs all of them with Sterling i DEnmark (where I also come from) all had 250-400 hrs.
So spending Ł10K on a FI is a bad deal when a TR is Ł15K ( and I cant afford both)
Jannik
So spending Ł10K on a FI is a bad deal when a TR is Ł15K ( and I cant afford both)
Jannik
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The TR is effectively half the training you seek with the other half being made up of line training. Therefore one is dependent on the other.
Be careful that you don't fall into some con and lose your money though, take a moment of pause......
Be careful that you don't fall into some con and lose your money though, take a moment of pause......
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Hi Boogie
I have taken 2 yrs of pause now - nothing happens unless you take a chance - I am now willing to take that chance. Many who HAS taken that chance ahs now landed jobs (I know many others havent) But at least I improve my CV - might even get an interview one day - Im fed up with "waiting for better times" etc. (excuse my language)
JAnnik
I have taken 2 yrs of pause now - nothing happens unless you take a chance - I am now willing to take that chance. Many who HAS taken that chance ahs now landed jobs (I know many others havent) But at least I improve my CV - might even get an interview one day - Im fed up with "waiting for better times" etc. (excuse my language)
JAnnik
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Originally Posted by Jannik23
Hi Boogie
But at least I improve my CV - might even get an interview one day - Im fed up with "waiting for better times" etc. (excuse my language)
JAnnik
But at least I improve my CV - might even get an interview one day - Im fed up with "waiting for better times" etc. (excuse my language)
JAnnik
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Guess that depends on the airline - could also tell them tha Im a pilot willing to learn and fly for a living and forking out for a TR is not gonna stop me.
I have already spent Ł50K should I then just sit and wait for a few more yrs and then quit and have wasted all that money or should I invest a little more and land the job I have always wanted?
I have 320 hrs TT
another has 220 and a TR with no hrs
Who is the airline gonna pick of the two of us ??? Think you all know the answer. 3 yrs ago the competition was having more hrs than the othsers (experience) today its having a TR - thats they way the industry have moed the past 3 rys with all the lowcost airlines who try to save money. So if they can save Ł15-20K per pilot they employ - they will. Wouldnt you????
I wish I could avoid this - I would rather spend the money on something else and get my TR paid for by the airline - but since nobody seem to call me I have to make my self employable and give THEM a call. And if my chances improves with a TR - thats the way i´ll go.
What r UR situations - you all have jobs and whats you TT and are you considering a rating too or not ?
Im just curious
Jannik
I have already spent Ł50K should I then just sit and wait for a few more yrs and then quit and have wasted all that money or should I invest a little more and land the job I have always wanted?
I have 320 hrs TT
another has 220 and a TR with no hrs
Who is the airline gonna pick of the two of us ??? Think you all know the answer. 3 yrs ago the competition was having more hrs than the othsers (experience) today its having a TR - thats they way the industry have moed the past 3 rys with all the lowcost airlines who try to save money. So if they can save Ł15-20K per pilot they employ - they will. Wouldnt you????
I wish I could avoid this - I would rather spend the money on something else and get my TR paid for by the airline - but since nobody seem to call me I have to make my self employable and give THEM a call. And if my chances improves with a TR - thats the way i´ll go.
What r UR situations - you all have jobs and whats you TT and are you considering a rating too or not ?
Im just curious
Jannik
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It's very true Jannik, yesterday the experience counted but today it's the TR which helps. You are very right about already having 'paused' for 2 years I should have noted that before I posted earlier.
Good luck my friend.
Good luck my friend.
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Jannik
I don't blame you for wanting to improve your chances by getting a TR. I just wander how long the industry can continue to operate in this way. I have paid out over 40K pounds and that does not include the relatively decent job I gave up to do the flying training. If I do a TR and still get no job at the end I will be almost bankrupt and probably have very little chance of returning to my previous career as I'll have been away for 2 years. I don't know whether I can take that risk, even if I want to.
I can think of no other industry or profession that would dare ask for so much up front with NO guarantee of any job at the end.
If all of us FATPLs and budding FATPLs turned round tomorrow and refused to sell our souls for the chance to fly in a tin can then the airlines would have to invest, but UNLIKELY as we all love flying too much!
Out of interest I've not heard of the deal that you seem to be looking at - how does it work?
I don't blame you for wanting to improve your chances by getting a TR. I just wander how long the industry can continue to operate in this way. I have paid out over 40K pounds and that does not include the relatively decent job I gave up to do the flying training. If I do a TR and still get no job at the end I will be almost bankrupt and probably have very little chance of returning to my previous career as I'll have been away for 2 years. I don't know whether I can take that risk, even if I want to.
I can think of no other industry or profession that would dare ask for so much up front with NO guarantee of any job at the end.
If all of us FATPLs and budding FATPLs turned round tomorrow and refused to sell our souls for the chance to fly in a tin can then the airlines would have to invest, but UNLIKELY as we all love flying too much!
Out of interest I've not heard of the deal that you seem to be looking at - how does it work?
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I can think of no other industry or profession that would dare ask for so much up front with NO guarantee of any job at the end.
Eleven - As to how much it costs, well if we include lost earnings I would hate to think how much I have effectively given up as well. It could be worse though, you could have gone down the APP route and then been forced to get a TR as well and spent over £100-120k. Ouch now that would hurt!
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unfortunately only current employees or contractors can get access to the REPA website.
A lot of new joiners think of Ryan as a stepping stone and intend to move after the three years they are bonded for (yes there is a bond even though you pay for your type). The Ryan management seem to like this as each new year of recruits appear to get less money than the last and you will not be able to get a written set of T&Cs out of Ryan when you join or even a salary scale, cos there doesn't appear to be one. However with the numbers in Ryan now, where are they all going to go to when they do want to move?
Grapevine is, and let me be quite clear about this, this is something i have heard and am merely reporting on, not expressing any opinion of mine, is that new joiners are put on contracts on a take it or leave it basis (only told about this when they have paid for the type) that give them 40 or 50 euro per block hour (legal limit 900 per year) before tax and expenses. if this is the case, this is a BIG pay cut compared to all previous joiners (once the 6 months of training contract penury is up) and don't forget there would be no benefits of any kind from ryan - no pension, loss of licence, healthcare or even tea and coffee, as contractors work on a fee basis AND PICK UP ALL THEIR OWN EXPENSES INCLUDING HOTELS if they are moved. it might not be unknown for contractors to have to pay for their own licence renewals too.
BTW no company to my knowledge will GUARANTEE you a job if you enter their type training etc - there will always be caveats in case the market suddenly slumps. fact of life. accept it.
Right, now for the upside:
good flying
lots of experience (ie they work you hard)
chance of rapid promotion to RHS in 3 1/2 years, which is why a lot of people put up with it
the in house training is of very high quality
fly brand new aircraft
the crews are a good bunch
and if you are a young single guy then there are some very cute girls around the place too (sorry to reduce to base level!!
)
so you pay your money and take your choice. as for getting in to ryan, why not get a ground job at a Ryan base. you could then make yourself known to the crews. there is no point sitting around doing other crappy work waiting for your opportunity. get to, for example STN, and do work on the ground THAT WILL GET YOU WHERE YOU WANT TO BE.
can't say it any plainer than that!
cheers all and good luck
A lot of new joiners think of Ryan as a stepping stone and intend to move after the three years they are bonded for (yes there is a bond even though you pay for your type). The Ryan management seem to like this as each new year of recruits appear to get less money than the last and you will not be able to get a written set of T&Cs out of Ryan when you join or even a salary scale, cos there doesn't appear to be one. However with the numbers in Ryan now, where are they all going to go to when they do want to move?
Grapevine is, and let me be quite clear about this, this is something i have heard and am merely reporting on, not expressing any opinion of mine, is that new joiners are put on contracts on a take it or leave it basis (only told about this when they have paid for the type) that give them 40 or 50 euro per block hour (legal limit 900 per year) before tax and expenses. if this is the case, this is a BIG pay cut compared to all previous joiners (once the 6 months of training contract penury is up) and don't forget there would be no benefits of any kind from ryan - no pension, loss of licence, healthcare or even tea and coffee, as contractors work on a fee basis AND PICK UP ALL THEIR OWN EXPENSES INCLUDING HOTELS if they are moved. it might not be unknown for contractors to have to pay for their own licence renewals too.
BTW no company to my knowledge will GUARANTEE you a job if you enter their type training etc - there will always be caveats in case the market suddenly slumps. fact of life. accept it.
Right, now for the upside:
good flying
lots of experience (ie they work you hard)
chance of rapid promotion to RHS in 3 1/2 years, which is why a lot of people put up with it
the in house training is of very high quality
fly brand new aircraft
the crews are a good bunch
and if you are a young single guy then there are some very cute girls around the place too (sorry to reduce to base level!!
)so you pay your money and take your choice. as for getting in to ryan, why not get a ground job at a Ryan base. you could then make yourself known to the crews. there is no point sitting around doing other crappy work waiting for your opportunity. get to, for example STN, and do work on the ground THAT WILL GET YOU WHERE YOU WANT TO BE.
can't say it any plainer than that!
cheers all and good luck
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Originally Posted by PAPI-74
Probably because they have stopped recruiting for that scheme. If you want a job within the next year, you will need at least 100hrs on type (Astraus deal)
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The back door one where you get recommended for an interview and sim check (you pay for). If you get on with the SID and Emergencies that they throw at you (supposed to be the hardest check in the game), they recommend you to a TRTO (SAS) for your rating. You need to go via PARC MCC usually, as a few of their instructors are Ryanair Capt's. It seems to have stopped now as they are only allowed a percentage of low hours pilots, I assume as part of their AOC.
To get a look in you are looking at least at a TR, if not a TR +100hrs.
Please correct me if I am wrong....
By the way the SIM check has changed from East Mid to Luton with a harder SID (1hr to plan it) but less emergencies.
To get a look in you are looking at least at a TR, if not a TR +100hrs.
Please correct me if I am wrong....
By the way the SIM check has changed from East Mid to Luton with a harder SID (1hr to plan it) but less emergencies.
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The Astraus deal, is where you pay for the TR. If you want a few bells and whistles on top, they offer 10 or 100hrs line training for the give away, basement price of 9K.
They give you the 737-300 TR with 700 dif training.....
plus your OCC (get wet in the pool and open a few doors for two weeks)
You then jumpseat for about four sectors and then Right Seat for a few more days until they are happy to let you loose without the safety pilot (in case they need to remove you). You are then crew until your time is up. If they need you and you have proved worthy, they may offer you a job or you will be in a good position to find one.
Is is worth it.....I am still working it out. I am torn between hanging on and getting a TP job, if I can find one, or paying PARC for a TR, or Astraus for the 100 deal.
Either way I loose for a while till I can pay it all back. I could always put oneof the three kids on e-bay.
They give you the 737-300 TR with 700 dif training.....
plus your OCC (get wet in the pool and open a few doors for two weeks)
You then jumpseat for about four sectors and then Right Seat for a few more days until they are happy to let you loose without the safety pilot (in case they need to remove you). You are then crew until your time is up. If they need you and you have proved worthy, they may offer you a job or you will be in a good position to find one.
Is is worth it.....I am still working it out. I am torn between hanging on and getting a TP job, if I can find one, or paying PARC for a TR, or Astraus for the 100 deal.
Either way I loose for a while till I can pay it all back. I could always put oneof the three kids on e-bay.
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I spent 16 months sending out CVs and getting absolutely no where, apart from a huge pile of PFO letters. The question you have to ask is can you afford to sit and do nothing, and continue to send out CVs, or do you change your game plan. I changed my game plan. I did my research and paid for my type rating. Many told me I was mad! I finished it in February. Since then I have had 3 interviews, and I now have a job on a 737 which is fantastic.
It was a gamble, but as I am 36 years old I needed to do something that would give me a position on a jet with reasonable remuneration, and still be able to look after the family. Everyone’s position and circumstances are individual, and so to are the decisions you need to make in order for you to get that first position. Ryanair is not the only outfit out there, there is opportunity.
It was a gamble, but as I am 36 years old I needed to do something that would give me a position on a jet with reasonable remuneration, and still be able to look after the family. Everyone’s position and circumstances are individual, and so to are the decisions you need to make in order for you to get that first position. Ryanair is not the only outfit out there, there is opportunity.