Pilot scheduling
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Pilot scheduling
Hello everyone, I have a question about becoming a pilot.
I am looking into becoming a commercial pilot for a living. The problem is the schedule is random. I am an observant jew and I can not fly on friday or saturday, the question is will I be able to get hired by an airline. Does anyone know if an airline would hire me, with the condition that I will never fly on friday and saturday? Thanks in advance.
-Elliot
I am looking into becoming a commercial pilot for a living. The problem is the schedule is random. I am an observant jew and I can not fly on friday or saturday, the question is will I be able to get hired by an airline. Does anyone know if an airline would hire me, with the condition that I will never fly on friday and saturday? Thanks in advance.
-Elliot
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Not sure about the airlines, but you might get on in some specialist areas, like the ad-hoc charter world. I'm sure someone wants a pilot who will work every Sunday without complaint! The problem is that you are restricting your options in what is already a difficult career to get a start in, and charter demands different experience too. I would certainly say you should look into it in detail, and take PPRuNe enquiries as just part of your information.
Is it all day Friday you cannot work? Forgive me my atheist's ignorance, but I was aware that the Sabath included Friday evening but not that it precluded work the whole day. It could be important if you could work earlier (it adds a whole new overnight option, and in my business Friday evening and Saturday tend to be quiet anyway).
Good luck if you do choose to fly!
P.S. Do El Al have any especially considerate conditions?
Is it all day Friday you cannot work? Forgive me my atheist's ignorance, but I was aware that the Sabath included Friday evening but not that it precluded work the whole day. It could be important if you could work earlier (it adds a whole new overnight option, and in my business Friday evening and Saturday tend to be quiet anyway).
Good luck if you do choose to fly!
P.S. Do El Al have any especially considerate conditions?
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I think that, unless you find an operator run by and for observant Jews (possibly a charity operation in Israel?), the answer will be no. Airlines are 24/7/365 operations, and are generally unable to accommodate employees who set rigid conditions. A few corporate operators may be able to accommodate your wishes, if you look hard enough, but you may have to go a long way from home to get what you want.
I would have thought that a more profitable line of enquiry would be through your religious contacts. While none of your direct contacts may have any useful knowledge, it seems to me that such a specialist request is likely to be most easily answered through the community that shares your lifestyle - someone will have been there before you! Is there a similar worldwide bulletin board for your branch of your religion? That may be a good place to ask.
Scroggs
I would have thought that a more profitable line of enquiry would be through your religious contacts. While none of your direct contacts may have any useful knowledge, it seems to me that such a specialist request is likely to be most easily answered through the community that shares your lifestyle - someone will have been there before you! Is there a similar worldwide bulletin board for your branch of your religion? That may be a good place to ask.
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i wonder if any other 'normal' job would allow you not to have to work on a friday afternoon?
i would like not to have to work certain days, so why does just because it is a religious belief give this request any credibilty?
what difference is it to me saying, i dont want to work fridays or saturdays, because i believe friday night to be the best night for going out and saturday for chilling and recovering from a good friday night?
i just think people should stop 'pussy footing ' around such issues and say how it really is...and in my opinion that is if you want a job in a highly competetive market, which doesnt differentiate between weekdays and weekends, christians, muslims or jews, then one must be available to work a non-standard week, ie. saturday and sundays as if they were normal days of the week...that just how it is.
finally, if you are unable to fit the EMPLOYERS requirements and needs, then it would seem you are unlikely to be employed by them...not rocket science?
i would like not to have to work certain days, so why does just because it is a religious belief give this request any credibilty?
what difference is it to me saying, i dont want to work fridays or saturdays, because i believe friday night to be the best night for going out and saturday for chilling and recovering from a good friday night?
i just think people should stop 'pussy footing ' around such issues and say how it really is...and in my opinion that is if you want a job in a highly competetive market, which doesnt differentiate between weekdays and weekends, christians, muslims or jews, then one must be available to work a non-standard week, ie. saturday and sundays as if they were normal days of the week...that just how it is.
finally, if you are unable to fit the EMPLOYERS requirements and needs, then it would seem you are unlikely to be employed by them...not rocket science?
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Maybe you should write to EL AL HR dept and find out their policy. If you recieve no joy there are there any career's that would afford you this concession. I used to work beside some muslims who demanded time off during the day to prey and would not drive substantial distances during ramadan, it did cause quite lot of inconvenience to the staff scheduling.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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lezam, can we be quite clear here...it is not your religion that doesnt allow it, it is you who choose to follow your religion and not do it....
i am not religious, but i think someone can be a good christian, muslim or jew just by following a decent and good life....
but, each to their own...
i am not religious, but i think someone can be a good christian, muslim or jew just by following a decent and good life....
but, each to their own...
General Aviation = GA
Single engine, pistons, light twins ranging up to the lower end of the corporate world with small turbine aircraft such as Caravans, Metros, Conquests.
Usually small operator/owner business based out of small towns (they are in Larger cities as well but jobs there are harder to come by due to high hr requirements) offering charter and flight training to the area they service (note: I once worked for a company who serviced an area the same size as France). Most would be happy to substitute your Friday if they could get you to work a Sunday instead. The pay is generally less then airline (unless you’re in a really good outfit) but you should be able to spend most nights at home.
Just 1 Question however, if you got into a company and your aircraft broke down in a different airport on a Thursday, would you fly the plane home on the Friday for your employer or would they have to wait until Sunday? Because most of the operators I know would be a bit upset if you where that fundamental that it effected there profits.
Single engine, pistons, light twins ranging up to the lower end of the corporate world with small turbine aircraft such as Caravans, Metros, Conquests.
Usually small operator/owner business based out of small towns (they are in Larger cities as well but jobs there are harder to come by due to high hr requirements) offering charter and flight training to the area they service (note: I once worked for a company who serviced an area the same size as France). Most would be happy to substitute your Friday if they could get you to work a Sunday instead. The pay is generally less then airline (unless you’re in a really good outfit) but you should be able to spend most nights at home.
Just 1 Question however, if you got into a company and your aircraft broke down in a different airport on a Thursday, would you fly the plane home on the Friday for your employer or would they have to wait until Sunday? Because most of the operators I know would be a bit upset if you where that fundamental that it effected there profits.
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How is it possible in the modern world to avoid working on friday particularly as a plane pilot ?!!!!! Almost sounds like a joke !
Friday evenings are the busiest days for passenger operations. People go on week end or start their hollidays !
Friday evenings are the busiest days for passenger operations. People go on week end or start their hollidays !
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Originally Posted by rmcdonal
General Aviation = GA
Single engine, pistons, light twins ranging up to the lower end of the corporate world with small turbine aircraft such as Caravans, Metros, Conquests.
Usually small operator/owner business based out of small towns (they are in Larger cities as well but jobs there are harder to come by due to high hr requirements) offering charter and flight training to the area they service (note: I once worked for a company who serviced an area the same size as France). Most would be happy to substitute your Friday if they could get you to work a Sunday instead. The pay is generally less then airline (unless you’re in a really good outfit) but you should be able to spend most nights at home.
Just 1 Question however, if you got into a company and your aircraft broke down in a different airport on a Thursday, would you fly the plane home on the Friday for your employer or would they have to wait until Sunday? Because most of the operators I know would be a bit upset if you where that fundamental that it effected there profits.
Single engine, pistons, light twins ranging up to the lower end of the corporate world with small turbine aircraft such as Caravans, Metros, Conquests.
Usually small operator/owner business based out of small towns (they are in Larger cities as well but jobs there are harder to come by due to high hr requirements) offering charter and flight training to the area they service (note: I once worked for a company who serviced an area the same size as France). Most would be happy to substitute your Friday if they could get you to work a Sunday instead. The pay is generally less then airline (unless you’re in a really good outfit) but you should be able to spend most nights at home.
Just 1 Question however, if you got into a company and your aircraft broke down in a different airport on a Thursday, would you fly the plane home on the Friday for your employer or would they have to wait until Sunday? Because most of the operators I know would be a bit upset if you where that fundamental that it effected there profits.
I would be able to fly it back friday morning. Usually the sabbath starts about 4 o clock, so I should be able to do that. Also, do you know the pay scale for those?
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Originally Posted by Lezam
I would be able to fly it back friday morning. Usually the sabbath starts about 4 o clock, so I should be able to do that. Also, do you know the pay scale for those?
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and there's the parady...religion is supposed to bring happiness and meaning to life and it goes and stops you doing the job you probably would love doing, the job that would make you happy....
i wonder what you god would say if you asked him...
'do you mind if i have saturdays off because i have found that something which i love doing, it is able to provide a good life for me and my family which allows us to be good jews...'
i wonder what you god would say if you asked him...
'do you mind if i have saturdays off because i have found that something which i love doing, it is able to provide a good life for me and my family which allows us to be good jews...'
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And I thought Muslims were religious...
I've jumpseated with an Asian crew (a 3 man 747 Classic crew) and they all took time out (one at a time) to perform their Friday prayers in the cockpit, in their seats! Logic was working isn't just about bringing wealth and getting rich but is a means to an end.
Are you sure there isn't a directive excluding you from the Sabbath if you are travelling? Because that is essentially what flying is. Not like your average job where you can stop and resume at will.
I've jumpseated with an Asian crew (a 3 man 747 Classic crew) and they all took time out (one at a time) to perform their Friday prayers in the cockpit, in their seats! Logic was working isn't just about bringing wealth and getting rich but is a means to an end.
Are you sure there isn't a directive excluding you from the Sabbath if you are travelling? Because that is essentially what flying is. Not like your average job where you can stop and resume at will.