Philip stoyle, flyer magazine article. A319 type rating
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Philip stoyle, flyer magazine article. A319 type rating
Hi folks, there was an article in flyer magazine dated April 2004, by a gentleman named Philip stoyle, who did an Airbus a319 type rating. He was at the wrong side of forty, after three years of applying for a flying jobs without a sniff, and with 1400 hours under his belt, he decided to take the plunge and paid for his own a319 rating.
Now! After two years, what I would like to know, did Philip stoyle finally get a job flying?
Now! After two years, what I would like to know, did Philip stoyle finally get a job flying?
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Quote - 'wow, Thats really good to here! it seems that paying for it, pays off in the end'.
Just as not paying for a type rating can pay off in the end too!!
DON'T DO IT, whichever way you try to justify it, paying for your own type rating is WRONG, being bonded is fine, then it is a shared risk / investment, but it SHOULD NOT be all one way.
Just as not paying for a type rating can pay off in the end too!!
DON'T DO IT, whichever way you try to justify it, paying for your own type rating is WRONG, being bonded is fine, then it is a shared risk / investment, but it SHOULD NOT be all one way.
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Well done to this chap. It also goes to show that irrespective of your situation if you really want to do it there's always a way. But I would like to ask how old this guy was? If he was in the latter half of his thirties then I am even more happy for the guy.
Hi liverbird
Sticking my head above the parapet, I'm said person. Firstly to answer your question, yes it did and this summer I'll have been flying for a living for a couple of years.
Please don't PM me with questions etc., and I don't wish to be dragged into the paying for a TR debate, other than to say there are many people working in the industry who went down that route. Let me add that it's not going to open any doors per se, but you should consider it as another tool in your armoury to get a job. It will not do that on it's own. You'll need to do more (like write an article - didn't do it for me mind you), and get as many fingers in as many pies as you can. Persistence and being at the write place at the right time as well as making a bit of luck for yourself is what it's all about. The rating itself will not get you the job as many have found.
There are also lots of critics out there, those without jobs seem to be the most vocal. I was heavily criticised for what I did, but I'd still be looking for a job now if I'd not done it.
The article I wrote originally because I wanted to write down what to expect out of a TR. I'd spoken to many people and most had forgotten what I wanted to know. It was written in September 2003, just after I completed the rating, and published in April. I did add my name to it with contact details as I was very much looking to make more connections. It did do that in some respects. As I said above, it's all about opening up as many avenues, even if they end up as dead ends. It still amuses me that I had to go out and buy my own copy with the article!
Oh yes, age - I was 45 last January. There are two sides to age, with some companies it's OK some it's not. From a personal point of view, the thing that I find the hardest is just learning and taking in all the new things. Sadly, I suspect that older people are in reality harder to train.
Good luck to all trying to get a job. Is it worth it in ther end - you bet, but look at the downside too.
Cheers
Splat
Sticking my head above the parapet, I'm said person. Firstly to answer your question, yes it did and this summer I'll have been flying for a living for a couple of years.
Please don't PM me with questions etc., and I don't wish to be dragged into the paying for a TR debate, other than to say there are many people working in the industry who went down that route. Let me add that it's not going to open any doors per se, but you should consider it as another tool in your armoury to get a job. It will not do that on it's own. You'll need to do more (like write an article - didn't do it for me mind you), and get as many fingers in as many pies as you can. Persistence and being at the write place at the right time as well as making a bit of luck for yourself is what it's all about. The rating itself will not get you the job as many have found.
There are also lots of critics out there, those without jobs seem to be the most vocal. I was heavily criticised for what I did, but I'd still be looking for a job now if I'd not done it.
The article I wrote originally because I wanted to write down what to expect out of a TR. I'd spoken to many people and most had forgotten what I wanted to know. It was written in September 2003, just after I completed the rating, and published in April. I did add my name to it with contact details as I was very much looking to make more connections. It did do that in some respects. As I said above, it's all about opening up as many avenues, even if they end up as dead ends. It still amuses me that I had to go out and buy my own copy with the article!
Oh yes, age - I was 45 last January. There are two sides to age, with some companies it's OK some it's not. From a personal point of view, the thing that I find the hardest is just learning and taking in all the new things. Sadly, I suspect that older people are in reality harder to train.
Good luck to all trying to get a job. Is it worth it in ther end - you bet, but look at the downside too.
Cheers
Splat
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Ah yes I missed that caption at the beginning of this thread "being on the wrong side of 40". Thanks for pointing that out Troy Mclure 
Splat:
Once again I congratulate on both your rating and a very informative article after all how many people can recall such a piece from a couple of years ago let alone yesterday's newspaper headlines!
Good on you sir
Splat:
Once again I congratulate on both your rating and a very informative article after all how many people can recall such a piece from a couple of years ago let alone yesterday's newspaper headlines!
Good on you sir
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September 2003 ..... timing was good!!!
Did mine in Sep/04 and I'm still looking to get to RHS of the type.
Last Oct I renew the thing with a free lance Capt. with whom I did
the base training and, naturally the subject came up of, if he would
knew of any F/O opportunities (he has lots of contacts and has in
fact placed people in the past). His answer was that he was aware
of at least 30 people like me looking for work. Till the summer 2004
it used to be almost certain if one would have the rating.
"I have never seen it so dificult to get to the RHS of the type like
it has been in the last year" (Oct/05)
Safe landings,
Zerograv
Did mine in Sep/04 and I'm still looking to get to RHS of the type.
Last Oct I renew the thing with a free lance Capt. with whom I did
the base training and, naturally the subject came up of, if he would
knew of any F/O opportunities (he has lots of contacts and has in
fact placed people in the past). His answer was that he was aware
of at least 30 people like me looking for work. Till the summer 2004
it used to be almost certain if one would have the rating.
"I have never seen it so dificult to get to the RHS of the type like
it has been in the last year" (Oct/05)
Safe landings,
Zerograv
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Splat
How things? I met our mutual friends for lunch yesterday in your home town. I missed the article but glad it all worked out on the Airbus for you.
We must catch up and have a beer this summer!
Cheers!
SC
How things? I met our mutual friends for lunch yesterday in your home town. I missed the article but glad it all worked out on the Airbus for you.
We must catch up and have a beer this summer!
Cheers!
SC
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Splat,
Maybe you can justify getting a SSTR on the basis of your age and perceived lack of other options, but can you justify the cost of training against expected earnings for what will be a relatively short career?
I realise people want to fly for a host of reasons, but if you cannot justify it financially it comes down to buying a job.
Maybe you can justify getting a SSTR on the basis of your age and perceived lack of other options, but can you justify the cost of training against expected earnings for what will be a relatively short career?
I realise people want to fly for a host of reasons, but if you cannot justify it financially it comes down to buying a job.
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I think everyone needs to weigh up the pros and cons and come to a decision based on their own circumstances. SSTRs are here to stay whether we like them or not. They are sometimes useful in furthering careers. It's a gamble but then so much of aviation is chance anyway and as someone else correctly observed timing of a SSTR is critical to success in getting that coveted job or not!
I'm sure Splat thought about it very carefully and on balance thought it was a positive move. He's now with a good airline as opposed to still looking 3 years down the line!
Oh yes and congrats on unfreezing your ATPL mate!
I'm sure Splat thought about it very carefully and on balance thought it was a positive move. He's now with a good airline as opposed to still looking 3 years down the line!
Oh yes and congrats on unfreezing your ATPL mate!
Dr Eckener,
Did I think long and hard about it? You bet. I'd just been made redundant from a career with no further prospects, had and still have a mortgage, wife and two young kids, need I say more?
For me it has payed off, but I take your point.
Cheers
Splat.
Did I think long and hard about it? You bet. I'd just been made redundant from a career with no further prospects, had and still have a mortgage, wife and two young kids, need I say more?
For me it has payed off, but I take your point.
Cheers
Splat.
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Splat being in his 40's and self sponsoring a type training is in no way a bad thing. If you mean spending 20k and having approx 20 years left in your career that equates to 1k per year and most defo salaries are in the region of 38k - 48k on a jet. Depending on the type of outfit splat works for he may well have his command in a few years ..... that's generally 70 - 80k with expenses.
Not a bad investment 'if' it all pays off!
Not a bad investment 'if' it all pays off!
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It's the right thing to do even for Splat in his 40s, people spend silly money on cars these days anbd how long does that last 3-4 years? People spend money on all manner of other things in and around the home most of them non essential so a type rating has financial comparison with them straight away. The most significant point is that of 'investment' where it is actually quite viable in my eyes considering the DEFO payscales even the lower ranges and this will feedback and supersede the initial cost outlay. After all many people spend a small fortune in time, money and resource studying for their MBA we had a chap here at work do that recently and I don't really see many benefits for him.
There seems to be a romantic notion as a flight instructor that has to pay an over the top price for his initial FI rating and then made to work for a degrading salary. However that's acceptable because it's seen by the senior figures in aviation to be the tried and tested path. This might have been the case in the past but we're now in the present and a 21st century timeline and an aspiring pilot needs to be more flexible in his/her outlook and on their toes rather than the slow, sedate, 'we'll eventually get there' attitude of old flight training paths. Splat did the right thing not only on a personal level but inadvertently against the grain of the training establishment.
He made the right move and the airline that employed him clearly finds his route acceptable. It seems to the fuddy old FTOs that are increasingly singing from the wrong hym sheets whereas airlines in the very real world of cost and ever increasing influence of business parameters know what works and what doesn't.
There seems to be a romantic notion as a flight instructor that has to pay an over the top price for his initial FI rating and then made to work for a degrading salary. However that's acceptable because it's seen by the senior figures in aviation to be the tried and tested path. This might have been the case in the past but we're now in the present and a 21st century timeline and an aspiring pilot needs to be more flexible in his/her outlook and on their toes rather than the slow, sedate, 'we'll eventually get there' attitude of old flight training paths. Splat did the right thing not only on a personal level but inadvertently against the grain of the training establishment.
He made the right move and the airline that employed him clearly finds his route acceptable. It seems to the fuddy old FTOs that are increasingly singing from the wrong hym sheets whereas airlines in the very real world of cost and ever increasing influence of business parameters know what works and what doesn't.
