Airline Psychometric Tests
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Ok keep it coming all applicants are going to have to do these at some point so central information is important.
RAF/RN: pilapt tests - same as civilian version ? anything else ?
Qantas Cadetship : Maths , Verbal , Spatial , Commands
Luftansa: DLR
RAF/RN: pilapt tests - same as civilian version ? anything else ?
Qantas Cadetship : Maths , Verbal , Spatial , Commands
Luftansa: DLR
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RAF (and other military) recruiting is nothing to do with this forum and is covered quite adequately in the Military Pilots forum. If you wish to do the research, the recruiting procedures of almost every airline in existence are covered in threads in this and the Terms and Endearments forums (T&E exists for experienced pilots, who are excluded from Wannabes).
Scroggs
Scroggs
The RAF/RN/AAC Aptitude tests are diffierent from the Pilapt ones.
They are, however, the same as the GAPAN ones.... http://www.gapan.org/careers/aptitude.htm
They are, however, the same as the GAPAN ones.... http://www.gapan.org/careers/aptitude.htm
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This thread is a very good idea having detailed information in one place could save many many hours of looking through info that is often incomplete/ incorrect .
My brief contribution:
CTC ATP program: use testing definetly maths test pilapt also
I will check with old flying school friend who
did it recently
There must be others out there who recently gained employ with Easyjet , Ryanair , BMI , BMI Baby, TC, TF, First Choice. Anyone care to assist fATPL people who are seeking that first job?
My brief contribution:
CTC ATP program: use testing definetly maths test pilapt also
I will check with old flying school friend who
did it recently
There must be others out there who recently gained employ with Easyjet , Ryanair , BMI , BMI Baby, TC, TF, First Choice. Anyone care to assist fATPL people who are seeking that first job?
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Nice one Marloo.. I have recently failed a maths test and aptitude test for ThomsonFly
. It is about time we ppruners helped each other on this topic. I was gutted not to get through the first stage of the selection after so much hard work getting there in the first place. A lot of the maths presented on the selection got most people in the room flustered – is this the way airlines recruit, ie what has doing a fraction got to do with flying a plane? At least Ryanair have the right idea – ie can you fly. Anyway, if anyone can help here it would be very well received.Roxi
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Roxi
Not understanding basic maths as a commercial pilot will leave you short of a required skill. And I mean basic maths. Think about how often it is used;
Performance calculations
Fuel uplifting
Fuel burns compared to computed flight plan
Adjustments to planned fuel
Weight and balance calculations, including index calculations/ adjustments
Manual loadsheet completion
Descent path planning and adjustment
Landing performance calculations
The list could go on. Out of all the tests that some airlines run, maths is one which DOES make sense to be using.
PP
Not understanding basic maths as a commercial pilot will leave you short of a required skill. And I mean basic maths. Think about how often it is used;
Performance calculations
Fuel uplifting
Fuel burns compared to computed flight plan
Adjustments to planned fuel
Weight and balance calculations, including index calculations/ adjustments
Manual loadsheet completion
Descent path planning and adjustment
Landing performance calculations
The list could go on. Out of all the tests that some airlines run, maths is one which DOES make sense to be using.
PP
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Nice one Pilot Pete? I was trying to get to the fact that as a pilot you should know basic maths but unless you are practiced on particular subjects, ie fractions, you will be hampered in these tests. I was well up to speed on what I thought was required for the test but I failed to look at one element - so as a result my performance was weak. It would be good to gather information together to find out what is required on these tests so you can be better prepaired.
The selection room at Thomson was full of current jet pilots who all found the testing hard. Most of them hadn't seen a fraction since A level maths, so not sure what you call basic maths Pete?
Cheers
Roxi
The selection room at Thomson was full of current jet pilots who all found the testing hard. Most of them hadn't seen a fraction since A level maths, so not sure what you call basic maths Pete?
Cheers
Roxi
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Sorry for dragging this off topic, but I don't see why people get so terrified of fractions. A-level maths?! It's year 7, beginning of secondary school, 11-year-old standard maths - if you can't do them by the time you get to A-level, then you're going to struggle with A-level maths!! Pilot Pete is absolutely right, it is a very basic skill but one which you will find cropping up over and over again without you even realising. You won't always have the luxury of being able to sit working through a calculation to ten decimal places with a battery-powered calculator - you need to be able to do it quickly and simple fractions are an excellent way of approximating. It's only a way of expressing one number divided by another, and manipulating fractions in sums requires only the most basic addition and multiplication skills.
I'm really intrigued actually... what sort of problems exactly were you having with them?
I'm really intrigued actually... what sort of problems exactly were you having with them?
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Pilot Pete/ bjkeates – what u say is true and a fair point. I think it is sometimes difficult to see the correlation between the maths tests provided and what is required everyday flying. The calculations required in these tests can be more abstract than of everyday use. I know I am generalising and the tests are supposed to be testing an underlying ability. Maths is essential, no arguments from me on that, but I do wonder as to the purpose of some of the q’s ? Moreover, pilots who have been flying for years also seem to struggle?
At the end of the day I suppose it doesn’t matter what anyone says, as the tests are just another hurdle to jump ! They are another filter that an airline / organisation has put in place. Just find out what kind of tests are used and study them – isn’t that what we all do before testing day ? And the reason for the original post. Nice idea, good to have the information in one place.
PG
At the end of the day I suppose it doesn’t matter what anyone says, as the tests are just another hurdle to jump ! They are another filter that an airline / organisation has put in place. Just find out what kind of tests are used and study them – isn’t that what we all do before testing day ? And the reason for the original post. Nice idea, good to have the information in one place.
PG
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If you ask me, this sort of testing is essential. It amazes me nowadays, the standards of mental arithmetic. As I'm only in my mid 20's I come from the generation whom carry a 'plastic brain' i.e., one made by Casio. Having said that, from an early age my dad has peppered me with mental arithmetic, so I feel quite comfortable with mental calculations.
But the amount of people I've trained with, and flown with - whose mental arithmetic is sub-standard is astonishing.
Flying a jet is a numbers game - just as Pilot Pete stated. I'm nearly always calculating something in my head; rate of descent, Top of descent point, fuel burn etc. There’s nothing worse than when you’re pilot flying in the sim with someone with below par mental arithmetic – just adds to work load.
I feel that there are a few in this industry who 'slip through net'. They are in the minority, but still present nevertheless.
That's why I believe aptitude testing including maths in essential. The inability to work out fractions is a little disconcerting for such technically minded people.
Anyway, apologies for dragging this post further off topic. Back to it....
But the amount of people I've trained with, and flown with - whose mental arithmetic is sub-standard is astonishing.
Flying a jet is a numbers game - just as Pilot Pete stated. I'm nearly always calculating something in my head; rate of descent, Top of descent point, fuel burn etc. There’s nothing worse than when you’re pilot flying in the sim with someone with below par mental arithmetic – just adds to work load.
I feel that there are a few in this industry who 'slip through net'. They are in the minority, but still present nevertheless.
That's why I believe aptitude testing including maths in essential. The inability to work out fractions is a little disconcerting for such technically minded people.
Anyway, apologies for dragging this post further off topic. Back to it....
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Instead of writing 'what is 4232 x 23?' they may present the question with the answer like this; '42j2 x 2j = 97jj6 , what is 'j'? Bearing in mind that it is a multichoice question and there are 5 possible answers, say 1,2,3,4,or 5 it does not take the brains of an Archbishop to work out how to get an answer. I had a discussion woth someone on these boards about that exact question about a year ago and he was trying to convince everyone that the maths was impossible and you needed calculus and to make a formula up etc etc. NO, all you have to do is substitute 'j' for one of the answers provided, do the long multiplication and see if it works! If you are REALLY clever you put in the 3 as the first attempt. If your answer is too big then you try with a smaller number (the 2 or the 1 for those struggling!) and if it is too small then you try with a larger number (the 4 or the 5!). That way you need only do a maximum of 3 long multiplication sums to isolate the correct answer. The trick is to use these time-saving methods and to be able to maintain accuracy whilst working fast.
Other examples are being able to isolate 'x' on one side of an equation (again, only needs an ability to multiply and divide to do that), work with averages, percentages, ratios, fractions (dividing fractions with fractions) etc etc. Can you think outside the box though? When I sat the test I hadn't revised dividing fractions with fractions and couldn't remember how to do it. So, get back to basics, use a simple example to work out how to do it. Example;
What's a half divided by a quarter? Or, in other words 'how many times does a quarter fit into a half?' Simple! 2. So what did I have to do to the 1/2 and the 1/4 to get 2? Invert the second fraction and multiply. That's about as difficult as it gets. You still think it is A level stuff?
PP
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If you are REALLY clever you put in the 3 as the first attempt. If your answer is too big then you try with a smaller number (the 2 or the 1 for those struggling!) and if it is too small then you try with a larger number (the 4 or the 5!).
One poor chap I spoke to said he was asked for the square root of 441 whilst on an ILS in a sim check. He got it right too, because it is easy if you know how.
These questions are really a test of mental organisation rather than arithmetic, as many of them don't actually expect you to do the sum, but to utilise the basic relationship between operations and numbers.
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I would go as far as saying if you using trial and error then you have selected the wrong technique - just divide 6 by 2!
PP
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Pete, I usually agree with you on most things mate.....but IMHO most of the psychometric, maths, abstract reasoning type selection processes are merely HR related to weed out those who they don't want.
In essence HR departments present results to avoid allegations of prejudice, bias, or favourtism/nepotism etc, all part of the brave new PC world
The good old sim check, with some repeated exercises to show an ability to follow instructions and show a learning curve is a far more effective method of selection for qualified candidates.(and cheaper than paying various HR organisations for the intellectual property rights to tests and methodology)
As a method(s) for the selection of inexperienced candidates, the testing process is the latest fad and an american one at that. I don't dispute however the facts that with the sums of money involved..there needs to be some measure of ability....particularly those with no training or experience track record, is it the best method? I'm not convinced.
As far as specifics are concerned, I've experienced 4 airline aptitude tests, passed 3, bombed 1..again and again however I struggled to see the relevance to the various methodology involved.
When I raised the question with the lady interviewer ( I was offered the job..that I later turned down) she confirmed to me that it was a weeding out exercise, and had little to do with aptitude.
They used the personal interview process as the main criteria to identify those with the "percieved" suitability to fit into the company culture, and placed very little emphasis on anything other than the persons personality profile.
As for maths...your example Pete would have bamboozled me, all I know is my 3 X's table...and the application of the 1/60 rule, I've never had to use anything else in 10 years of varied flying. (I do carry 3 calculators 
)
In essence HR departments present results to avoid allegations of prejudice, bias, or favourtism/nepotism etc, all part of the brave new PC world
The good old sim check, with some repeated exercises to show an ability to follow instructions and show a learning curve is a far more effective method of selection for qualified candidates.(and cheaper than paying various HR organisations for the intellectual property rights to tests and methodology)
As a method(s) for the selection of inexperienced candidates, the testing process is the latest fad and an american one at that. I don't dispute however the facts that with the sums of money involved..there needs to be some measure of ability....particularly those with no training or experience track record, is it the best method? I'm not convinced.
As far as specifics are concerned, I've experienced 4 airline aptitude tests, passed 3, bombed 1..again and again however I struggled to see the relevance to the various methodology involved.
When I raised the question with the lady interviewer ( I was offered the job..that I later turned down) she confirmed to me that it was a weeding out exercise, and had little to do with aptitude.
They used the personal interview process as the main criteria to identify those with the "percieved" suitability to fit into the company culture, and placed very little emphasis on anything other than the persons personality profile.
As for maths...your example Pete would have bamboozled me, all I know is my 3 X's table...and the application of the 1/60 rule, I've never had to use anything else in 10 years of varied flying. (I do carry 3 calculators
)
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Whoa, hold on there! I never said the tests were the best form of selection for pilots. All I stated was that a test of basic maths has some relevance. As does a grasp of English. Spatial orientation tests are again, of some relevance to being a pilot. The best? Maybe not, but what is? The friendly chat with the chief pilot followed by a sim check? Well, I would agree that a sim assessment is the best form of spatial orientation test for pilots, hence why most airlines include them in their selection process. Some still use the 'friendly chat' with the Chief Pilot as they trust his judgement, BUT it is quite possible for a candidate to lie their way through a straight interview and many have done in the past. The idea of running a profile before interview is to try to ascertain someone's strengths and weaknesses and then you can target specific areas with your interviewing, to either confirm or deny the strength/ weakness.
It's true it is an American invention and many businesses including airlines now use some form of psychometric testing in their selection procedures. Why? Because they see some merit in it and indeed, it filters out many to get the huge number of applicants down to a manageable number, within which your future employees reside. Does it necessarily get the BEST candidates? Maybe not, but it gets perfectly ACCEPTABLE candidates to whom jobs are offered. If it didn't then the airlines (and all the other companies using the tests) would have binned them.
My point was merely that there is nothing too difficult in these tests. They test the BASICS and if you haven't used the basics for a long time and you know you are going to sit a test as part of a pilot selection, then if you don't brush up to give yourself the best chance of passing, then that probably says enough to the employer as regards your DESIRABILITY as a potential employee. Never forget it is their train set and if you want to play with their train, then you have to pass through the filtering process. Whether it is crap or not at selecting pilot employees is a different question. Just remember that the airlines are happy with the ones who DO pass the filtering process and hence they offer them jobs. Nobody is saying that you have to agree with the testing regime.
PP
It's true it is an American invention and many businesses including airlines now use some form of psychometric testing in their selection procedures. Why? Because they see some merit in it and indeed, it filters out many to get the huge number of applicants down to a manageable number, within which your future employees reside. Does it necessarily get the BEST candidates? Maybe not, but it gets perfectly ACCEPTABLE candidates to whom jobs are offered. If it didn't then the airlines (and all the other companies using the tests) would have binned them.
My point was merely that there is nothing too difficult in these tests. They test the BASICS and if you haven't used the basics for a long time and you know you are going to sit a test as part of a pilot selection, then if you don't brush up to give yourself the best chance of passing, then that probably says enough to the employer as regards your DESIRABILITY as a potential employee. Never forget it is their train set and if you want to play with their train, then you have to pass through the filtering process. Whether it is crap or not at selecting pilot employees is a different question. Just remember that the airlines are happy with the ones who DO pass the filtering process and hence they offer them jobs. Nobody is saying that you have to agree with the testing regime.
PP
plus I missed the context of what you said.. 